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Lets make some F23 brackets and a shift linkage! by Purple86GT
Started on: 05-25-2013 08:53 PM
Replies: 31 (1706 views)
Last post by: FIEROFLYER on 02-09-2014 06:37 PM
Purple86GT
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Report this Post05-25-2013 08:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Purple86GTClick Here to Email Purple86GTSend a Private Message to Purple86GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well I can't wait any longer and there is a lack of vendors that can supply F23 transmission brackets and shift linkage adaptors.

I need to finish my 3800SC swap with the F23 transmission. I know there is a large demand out there for these brackets and many are like me, dead in the water, looking for a solution.

I hope that some experts on here can help me crate the brackets. I will then get them replicated and offer them to anyone who wants them for as little as possible. (whatever it costs to make them or have them made).

I have a mig welder and I can work on this project on the weekends.

I have never made a transmission or engine bracket. How do I mock them up? how do I calculate where the engine and trans should be?

I hope when all this is done, I will have a kit put together so than anyone can buy an F23 trans and with basic tools drop it their Fiero.

Thanks in advance!

[This message has been edited by Purple86GT (edited 05-25-2013).]

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Report this Post05-25-2013 09:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
From what I have found this weekend making a shifter bracket with some kind of pivot to allow the use of stock cables leaves too much play in the shifting.
I had a customer bring me a Roger Thelin kit that requires a fair bit of work and even a little modifying to get to work but in the end has a much better shift action with no more play then the stock Fiero trannies.
I would recommend either going with Thelin's kit or just buy the longer shifter cables and go the route others have done on here with the shift cable wrapped around the tranny to line up with the shifter arm. The longer cable will run you around $100 and Rogers kit at least twice that and require some work to instal. Dan
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joshua riedl
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Report this Post05-26-2013 01:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for joshua riedlSend a Private Message to joshua riedlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I made mine today in about 5hrs. I used 2 getrag select cables. I had to modify the shifter bracket to bring the cable mount closer to the shifter on the shift cable. Some care needs to be taken on the select lever to make sure the throw matches the throw on the shifter. I can try to get some pictures tomorrow.
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Purple86GT
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Report this Post05-26-2013 07:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Purple86GTClick Here to Email Purple86GTSend a Private Message to Purple86GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by joshua riedl:

I made mine today in about 5hrs. I used 2 getrag select cables. I had to modify the shifter bracket to bring the cable mount closer to the shifter on the shift cable. Some care needs to be taken on the select lever to make sure the throw matches the throw on the shifter. I can try to get some pictures tomorrow.


That would be awesome! thank you!


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joshua riedl
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Report this Post05-26-2013 08:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for joshua riedlSend a Private Message to joshua riedlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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The select cable is tight to the trans case. it may be better to bend the mounting plate a little to allow for some clearance. Also the bracket flexes a little when shifting. I will either throw in a gusset or make a new one. maybe just with some thicker metal.

[This message has been edited by joshua riedl (edited 05-26-2013).]

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Report this Post05-26-2013 09:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That is the best route to just go with longer shifter cable and be done with it instead of trying to reuse stock cables. Dan
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cam-a-lot
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Report this Post05-26-2013 09:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cam-a-lotSend a Private Message to cam-a-lotEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey Purple

I have custom cables from California Push and Pull that was recommended by L67 in his tutorial. They seem to be pretty good. The shifter bracket is not pretty but it seems to work and will probably just need adjustment as opposed to replacement, since it is fine except for the occasional issue with going into reverse.

I now have a couple of people working on options as well for proper F23 mounts and that is why I made this video so they can see my car.

If it helps you, here is what mine is like currently, and it will hopefully all come out soon and get properly mounted. The overall design is OK, but the material is too thin, and more bolts need to be used to reduce pivoting under torque.

If I finally find someone to design proper F23 mounts and corresponding engine mounts, I can cut them on laser or waterjet and they will be bang on, regardless of thickness. I will make you a set at no charge, since I can get machine time pretty cheap and it looks like you have been through a lot of crap trying to get your car up and running too. I know what it is like dealing with unreliable dreamers for vendors....so hopefully if I get a solution, we will both get a solution. The Spec 3 clutch is really harsh- you may want to test drive one before going with it. I hear that the 3+ is smoother to disengage, but don't know for sure.

Let's use my car as a guinea-pig and if it works, i will make you a set. Keep in mind that your cradle is different, so i will try to figure out what the different mounting points will be for an 86 as opposed to an 88.

Here is my video. Sorry about the crap quality and messy garage.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey5rUseVB5Y

[This message has been edited by cam-a-lot (edited 05-26-2013).]

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Purple86GT
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Report this Post05-27-2013 11:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Purple86GTClick Here to Email Purple86GTSend a Private Message to Purple86GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cam-a-lot:

Hey Purple

I have custom cables from California Push and Pull that was recommended by L67 in his tutorial. They seem to be pretty good. The shifter bracket is not pretty but it seems to work and will probably just need adjustment as opposed to replacement, since it is fine except for the occasional issue with going into reverse.

I now have a couple of people working on options as well for proper F23 mounts and that is why I made this video so they can see my car.

If it helps you, here is what mine is like currently, and it will hopefully all come out soon and get properly mounted. The overall design is OK, but the material is too thin, and more bolts need to be used to reduce pivoting under torque.

If I finally find someone to design proper F23 mounts and corresponding engine mounts, I can cut them on laser or waterjet and they will be bang on, regardless of thickness. I will make you a set at no charge, since I can get machine time pretty cheap and it looks like you have been through a lot of crap trying to get your car up and running too. I know what it is like dealing with unreliable dreamers for vendors....so hopefully if I get a solution, we will both get a solution. The Spec 3 clutch is really harsh- you may want to test drive one before going with it. I hear that the 3+ is smoother to disengage, but don't know for sure.

Let's use my car as a guinea-pig and if it works, i will make you a set. Keep in mind that your cradle is different, so i will try to figure out what the different mounting points will be for an 86 as opposed to an 88.

Here is my video. Sorry about the crap quality and messy garage.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey5rUseVB5Y




Awesome!

thank you for your help.

My problem is not knowing where to start at this point... I don`t even had one anchor point for my engine or transmission. I'd like to mock it up and start welding some brackets together. But how do i know for sure the engine and trans are where they are supposed to be?

I wish Aaron88 would of been able to make some brackets and shift linkages. If they are anything like his battery relocate kit, they would of been better than anything GM would of been able to make.

I'm trying to not let this discourage me... My car is now over a year behind schedule. I'm using a shop that does not belong to me. And when I'm asked about the status of the swap.. All I can say is I'm waiting for parts. So the shop owner's patience are wearing thin... I'd like to have my Fiero running for this season.
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Report this Post05-27-2013 11:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
As I have said many times I have nice solid F23/3800SC mounting brackets that work great, it is the shifter brackets I do not have right now that are acceptable. For the shifter brackets go with Roger Thelin's kit or with a longer shifter cable and you are all set. Dan
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Report this Post05-27-2013 11:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Purple86GTClick Here to Email Purple86GTSend a Private Message to Purple86GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FIEROFLYER:

As I have said many times I have nice solid F23/3800SC mounting brackets that work great, it is the shifter brackets I do not have right now that are acceptable. For the shifter brackets go with Roger Thelin's kit or with a longer shifter cable and you are all set. Dan


I've sent you several PM's asking for a package price for everything I need. I need more than just the trans barackets and the engine mount, I have no AC, I need to relocate my alternator and i want to remove the PS pump.

I'm just afraid of mixing different kits and i want everything to be rock solid and bullet proof. So I need realy think mounts and some sort of provisioning for a dog bone.

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Report this Post05-27-2013 11:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have given prices for every thing but the shifter brackets and as I said I am not happy with what I have come up with so far and I will not sell things I will not use on my own cars. If you want to build your own that is great and if you want I can help with info to get you going and even some suggestions on how to build things. Dan
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Report this Post05-27-2013 11:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Purple86GTClick Here to Email Purple86GTSend a Private Message to Purple86GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FIEROFLYER:

I have given prices for every thing but the shifter brackets and as I said I am not happy with what I have come up with so far and I will not sell things I will not use on my own cars. If you want to build your own that is great and if you want I can help with info to get you going and even some suggestions on how to build things. Dan


I guess i got confised with the pricing then. I assumed you were going to send me an invoice for everything I need. Can you send me the price list again and what it would total to with shipping?

thank you.

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Report this Post05-27-2013 09:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
F23 tranny mount brackets that work with either the stock rubber mounts or Rodney's poly mounts are $150, matching engine mount bracket that also works with either stock rubber or Rodney's poly is $80. Low mount alt bracket for 99 up alt that works with the 99 up stock 3800 alt bracket is $65 for cars that have A/C and $85 for non A/C cars that comes with an idler pulley for proper belt rotation. The matching dog bone bracket to also work with the stock 99 up 3800 alt bracket is $50. The dog bone bracket works with Rodney's adjustable dog bone.
With this set up there is no need for power steering delete pulleys or A/C delete pulleys on non A/C cars. Dan
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Purple86GT
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Report this Post06-11-2013 04:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Purple86GTClick Here to Email Purple86GTSend a Private Message to Purple86GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok. I ordered the backets etc. from FIEROFLYER, the poly mounts and adjustable dogbone from Rodney. Now where do I source this "long" shifter cable? what are the specs on it? is there a part number or somethign I should ask for?

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Report this Post02-03-2014 12:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mitchjl22Click Here to Email mitchjl22Send a Private Message to mitchjl22Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Purple86GT:

Ok. I ordered the backets etc. from FIEROFLYER, the poly mounts and adjustable dogbone from Rodney. Now where do I source this "long" shifter cable? what are the specs on it? is there a part number or somethign I should ask for?


Yes, what is the "Long" shifter cable? Thats all you need to make the f23 work? Do you use a getrag shifter up in the center console?
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Report this Post02-04-2014 01:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Purple86GTClick Here to Email Purple86GTSend a Private Message to Purple86GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm still unsure of the shifter / cable setup. My project is on hold until the spring.. I'd really like to know for sure what cable lenth, cable ends and configuration to use with the F23...
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Report this Post02-06-2014 10:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Purple86GTClick Here to Email Purple86GTSend a Private Message to Purple86GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This link has some condensed info on the F23 in the Fiero. Still does not answer the question about shifter cable length. :/ But handy to have.

http://ncfiero.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16

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Report this Post02-07-2014 11:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bcampbellClick Here to Email bcampbellSend a Private Message to bcampbellEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you get in touch with California push pull they have the cables already designed for the F23 swap. The select cable is just their version of a stock Getrag select cable and the shift cable is lengthened about as long as the select cable. I guess that answers your question about length .

I made a bracket like is shown in the F23 swap tutorial but didn't get it right the first time so had to make a couple tweaks. I'm happy with it now except that I've found the California push pull cables to be quite stiff... much more so than stock cables.
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Report this Post02-07-2014 11:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85sliverGTClick Here to Email 85sliverGTSend a Private Message to 85sliverGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What changes did you need to make to the bracket? Have any pictures?
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Purple86GT
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Report this Post02-08-2014 08:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Purple86GTClick Here to Email Purple86GTSend a Private Message to Purple86GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by bcampbell:

If you get in touch with California push pull they have the cables already designed for the F23 swap. The select cable is just their version of a stock Getrag select cable and the shift cable is lengthened about as long as the select cable. I guess that answers your question about length .

I made a bracket like is shown in the F23 swap tutorial but didn't get it right the first time so had to make a couple tweaks. I'm happy with it now except that I've found the California push pull cables to be quite stiff... much more so than stock cables.


I contacted California push pull last fall. They wanted the specific lengths of my cables. And this is what I am not sure of. Would you be able to PM me your order number? I can simply ask them to give me the same order.

Thank you!
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Report this Post02-08-2014 10:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 85sliverGTClick Here to Email 85sliverGTSend a Private Message to 85sliverGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Purple86GT what do you have left on your f23 swap? Did you get mounts figured out?
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Report this Post02-08-2014 10:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bcampbellClick Here to Email bcampbellSend a Private Message to bcampbellEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I dont know why CPP asked for the cable lengths but all I did was say I needed the shift and select cable for an F23 Fiero swap.

As for the bracket, I found the diagram in the swap thread difficult to follow.... some measurements seemed to be off/out of proportion and some guesswork was needed to make the bracket the first time. For example the bracket diagram is for sure out of proportion with the given measurements, and as a result it's difficult to know where exactly the holes should be drilled.
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Report this Post02-08-2014 01:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NetCamClick Here to visit NetCam's HomePageSend a Private Message to NetCamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For CPP cables, just give them the length of the Getrag select cable (75"). I ordered one from them and they're much stronger than the RD cables.
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Report this Post02-08-2014 06:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Purple86GTClick Here to Email Purple86GTSend a Private Message to Purple86GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 85sliverGT:

Purple86GT what do you have left on your f23 swap? Did you get mounts figured out?


My mounts are from Fieroflyer. They look awesome but I have not tried them yet. I had some issues with a different supplier on here and that set me back a year on my swap. *sigh*


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Report this Post02-08-2014 06:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Purple86GTClick Here to Email Purple86GTSend a Private Message to Purple86GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by NetCam:

For CPP cables, just give them the length of the Getrag select cable (75"). I ordered one from them and they're much stronger than the RD cables.


So both cables should be the length of the Getrag cable?

Also, the shifter inside the car, is there a difference on the cable connections between an Isuzu and a getrag shifter?
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Report this Post02-09-2014 08:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Purple86GT:

Also, the shifter inside the car, is there a difference on the cable connections between an Isuzu and a getrag shifter?


There are subtle changes in how the base plate was made, but the cable connections are in the same place. I have used isuzu shifters with getrag cables and transmission several times.

------------------
fieroguruperformance.com

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Report this Post02-09-2014 09:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 85sliverGTClick Here to Email 85sliverGTSend a Private Message to 85sliverGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by Purple86GT:


So both cables should be the length of the Getrag cable?



No i dont think so. In The Getrag F23 Tutorial the author, L67 says:

 
quote
Originally posted by L67:

I had the cable made, and have since called in several revisions. The cable is now 12.5 inches longer than the original Getrag shift cable...


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Report this Post02-09-2014 09:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bcampbellClick Here to Email bcampbellSend a Private Message to bcampbellEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Which is about the same length as the getrag select cable.
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Report this Post02-09-2014 04:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you use a stronger cable the same specs as the select cable for a shift cable you will need to mod the bracket at the shifter end so the cable reaches properly. I have a part number some where for the proper cable from push pull that works with out modifying the shifter end will see if I can find it. Dan
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Report this Post02-09-2014 04:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Purple86GTClick Here to Email Purple86GTSend a Private Message to Purple86GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FIEROFLYER:

If you use a stronger cable the same specs as the select cable for a shift cable you will need to mod the bracket at the shifter end so the cable reaches properly. I have a part number some where for the proper cable from push pull that works with out modifying the shifter end will see if I can find it. Dan


Yes Dan! please let us know when you find it! that would be awesome. So I would order a standard Getrag shift cable and one custom cable?

Cheers!
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Report this Post02-09-2014 05:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bcampbellClick Here to Email bcampbellSend a Private Message to bcampbellEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FIEROFLYER:

If you use a stronger cable the same specs as the select cable for a shift cable you will need to mod the bracket at the shifter end so the cable reaches properly. I have a part number some where for the proper cable from push pull that works with out modifying the shifter end will see if I can find it. Dan


Yes that's the cable I got. It's the same length as the select cable but the distance from cable mount to cable attaching end is different from the select cable (like the stock shift cable).

I originally tried using two select cables but ended up destroying the cable used for shifting within 3 days due to aggressive shifting. The stock select cables just aren't meant to take that kind of abuse haha.
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Report this Post02-09-2014 06:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Found the receipts from last set I bought from California push pull and there is no actual part numbers just lists as two cables one 5 speed select cable which cost $95.13 and the other is F23 cable that cost $109.37.
I would suggest calling them at their number 530-893-4060 and ask them. Dan
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