I'm going to start gathering parts to build a Turbo L36 to put on my 88 cradle. Before I start, I want to say that I really don't want to hear people telling me I should start with an L67. I'm fully aware of the differences in the bottom end between the two and don't need the rhetoric. Anyways, I should state what my goals are. I will be using the F23 instead of the 4t65HD and I would like to run high 11's. I'm thinking 375-400whp. I wanted to basically go to the limits of the stock cam but Zoomer at ZZP doesn't think the stock cam is capable of my goals so I'm considering going with the ST1 or ST2 and using the 1.6 rockers instead of the 1.9's. Here is my parts list as of about an hour ago:
Deka 60# Injectors 130# PAC Valve Springs Rollmaster Double Timing Chain ST1 Cam (or ST2?) Modified Titanium Retainers Viton Valve Stem Seals Comp Cams Valve Locks Precision 5858 T3 0.63 BOV - To Be Determined Later Wastegate - To Be Determined Later Intercooler Setup - To Be Determined Later
Just curious what everybody thought. Feel free to criticize, educate, make recommendations etc.
[This message has been edited by NoMoreRicers (edited 05-09-2013).]
ST2 and 3 have been discontinued for a few years. Can find them used, or have ZZP do a custom grind to those specs. I don't think you'd need more than a ST1 anyway. Bigger cams make it harder to spool on the foot brake and push the powerband higher.
ST2 and 3 have been discontinued for a few years. Can find them used, or have ZZP do a custom grind to those specs. I don't think you'd need more than a ST1 anyway. Bigger cams make it harder to spool on the foot brake and push the powerband higher.
I think I'll go with the ST1. I'm not too worried about spooling on the foot brake as I'm going to mainly use it as a weekend driver and I'm using the F23 . Thanks for answering my questions via PM too!
Stock lifters, pushrods and rockers on a 100k+ mile engine here. If I ever take the heads back off to install my mls gaskets I will probably put ls7 lifters in for s&g's.
I have not been back to the track since the cam install.
Thanks guys. If anybody has any of these parts for sale that are new or low miles let me know. I keep seeing good buys on ClubGP but I haven't got any kind of email from them for my account registration. I even sent them an email 3 or 4 days later and they didn't respond to that either.
Intense has the best price for the rollmaster double chain I've seen. I have a new set of PAC 130 springs for $120 shipped if I don't sell them tomorrow at the 3800 meet.
Intense has the best price for the rollmaster double chain I've seen. I have a new set of PAC 130 springs for $120 shipped if I don't sell them tomorrow at the 3800 meet.
For some reason I was only looking on ZZP. The Rollmaster Double chain is 55 bucks cheaper! Thanks man. There retainers are 55 bucks more expensive though! Looks like I will get the chain from them but everything else from people here or ZZP.
I'm definitely interested in the 130 springs. I'll paypal you the money NOW if you sell them to me.
Does Stattama not make the ST2 anymore? I can't find it anywhere.
an xp or S1X cam would do the same thing.
I would just get a ST5 or leave it stock. The manual is going to really use the RPM band a cam gives more than an auto... so I would probably suggest it if the money allows for it.. it has no downfalls over stock other than cost, and its not any less streetable.
Mine suges anytime I'm below 2krpm. It defiantly a less street able than stock cam but I'm not sure how it compares to any other cam. It pulls like crazy up top. x2 on needing Rpm with the manual.
I really like the 6262 6266 on my car. It seems to be a good match for the 3800.
I vote ST1 cam. Are you doing the work?
BTW, I have some almost brand new 130# springs, retainers, etc, push rods, ZZP SS valves + rocker shim, and MLS gaskets. All 4 sale @ krazy cheap prices.
[This message has been edited by nosrac (edited 05-11-2013).]
BTW, I have some almost brand new 130# springs, retainers, etc, push rods, ZZP SS valves + rocker shim, and MLS gaskets. All 4 sale @ krazy cheap prices.
I got your PM about the intercooler and I'm not sure that I'm interested because I was hoping for one that I could fit under the trunk like your setup. I am interested in your springs and retainers and whatever else you have from my list on the first post. I don't plan on getting new push rods or valves but PM me everything you have from my list up above and I will surely buy from you!
Yeah I'm going to do most of the work myself. With all the resources here I feel confident that I can do just about all of it myself with a couple exceptions like the tuning etc.
Nosrac, I just bought the PAC springs from Justin but I'm interested in your titanium retainers. Do you have the viton valve seals or comp valve locks as well?
Honestly unless your going to run a bigger turbo, and or look for 10 second 1/4mile times, a ST1 is lots. A ST3 would be considered a 9 second cam in Turbo Buick world, and that's at 3500+ lbs.
Oh man I wish there was some kind of consensus here. Lfiero67 and Nosrac say ST1, Zoomer says ST2, Justin says ST3, and Dark says ST5.
The manual trans aspect is probably throws off the auto guys... Justins st5 does surge a bit, and I believe the ST3 would surge the same in some of the m/t applications over a stock/st1 cam.
If you're buying new I would get the ST5. If you find a really good deal on the ST3 then you could get that.
Mine does surge in gear at low RPM. I just had to adjust how I drive. I used to always put it in 5th anytime I was cruising above 35mph. Now I just leave it in 4th then shift into 5th anywhere above 60. ------------------ Turbo3800E85F23 5spd spec5 11.17@132.6
[This message has been edited by Justinbart (edited 05-12-2013).]
I can't believe you guys would recommend a ST5 cam for a 400whp build, especially when he has said he is looking at a 58mm turbo, it's too big for a 62 even. Justin had admitted the turbo takes longer to spool with the new cam, and that it surges at low rpm. Both are because the cam has shifted the powerband higher. He is running an L36, it isn't going to like having to be spun to 7000 rpm in every gear and will shorten its life. The manual trans thing makes the big cam worse, it will drive easier with a smaller cam, and the turbo will come in at a lower rpm, giving a wider powerband. If the powerband is shifted too high, a smaller turbo will be pushed harder to keep up, and may run out of steam too soon, further narrowing the usable rpm range. Your also pushing all this through stock heads, which will limit the usable rpm range. You have both run into the 130 mph range on small cams, Justin on stock plus 1.9s and Scott on a ST2, then that ST2 went in Formulas car, which is working well also. There is no way this car needs more than a ST1 or even a ST2, which zzp could still make under their custom cam order, to reach his goals.
Everywhere else I've read, they say the worst thing you can do to a turbo car is over cam it, except the 3800 guys, they say run the biggest. The St5 has more duration than my friends custom speced cam for a turbo 6.0L with heads that flow nearly twice what stock 3800 heads do. And I believe more duration than my friends 8 second turbo S10 that's making 1000+ WHP on a 6.7L engine.