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Dead fuel pump? - - car sat for 8 years. by Austrian Import
Started on: 01-10-2013 03:25 PM
Replies: 19 (738 views)
Last post by: Carrolles on 06-30-2013 09:36 PM
Austrian Import
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Report this Post01-10-2013 03:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So I'm trying to avoid unnecessarily dropping the gas tank as much as possible.

Here's what I have done so far:
• added 2 gal's of fresh fuel and 1 bottle of water remover
• Turned key to crank engine, cranks fine
• Can't hear fuel pump. (okay maybe it's a super quiet one? *shrugs*)
• Tested fuel nipple on engine - no fuel
• Disconnected gas line from filter, turned key to on - no fuel squirts
• Shortened pin 12 on ALDL with positive - makes pretty sparks, but no pump
• Replaced fuel pump relay, held both OEM and aftermarket one, I can feel the clicking on key turn
• Checked for yellow 3 wire harness at front of engine. Yes, it is plugged in

Is there anything I'm forgetting?
The car "ran when parked" now it doesn't turn on.

In case the answer is "drop the tank":
Is there a way to verify the pump is dead after tank is dropped? (which 2 wires on harness need +12v power for pump to turn, and what's the pinout)
Is there a difference between a Delphi brand fuel pump, and whatever Autozone, and Kragen sells?
What else should I do when the tank is already dropped?

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ericjon262
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Report this Post01-10-2013 03:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
sounds like you've covered just about everything. I would be willing to bet it's a bad pump.

I'd also be willing to bet most of the pumps are made in the same shop in china now, just different warranties on the box... 12V to the terminals should make the pump turn.

------------------
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Fiero Owner's group on 60degreeV6.com

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[This message has been edited by ericjon262 (edited 01-10-2013).]

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Patrick
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Report this Post01-10-2013 03:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

If you use a 12v jumper on the proper ALDL terminal and the pump doesn't run... it's dead, probably all gummed up.

Careful where you order a pump from!

Should I be ticked off that the fuel pump I received is not what I ordered?
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zefferk
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Report this Post01-10-2013 03:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zefferkSend a Private Message to zefferkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you've checked everything as you've stated and you don't hear the pump prime when you turn the key to the "on" position (don't try to crank yet), the pump is dead. It is a pain, but you're better off getting the tank out and emptying it of all the old varnish. It probably is still going to be crappy inside, but at least you'll get out the majority of it. A new pump filter screen will keep most of the larger crap out of your fuel lines and the filter (make sure it gets changed out too) will keep the smaller stuff from destroying your combustion chambers. Just be careful, keep a fire extinguisher close by, and get your car up securely so you live to tell how horrible it was to do this! If you can get your car on a lift to do this, it will really make it an easier job. BTW, make sure you buy a good pump. You will not want to do this again if you can at all avoid it.
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Austrian Import
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Report this Post01-10-2013 04:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What are the best techniques for cleaning out the tank? (Never dropped the tank before, so I have no idea what the inside looks like)
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Austrian Import
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Report this Post01-10-2013 04:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Austrian Import

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So EP240, and EP378 are interchangeable?
What's the benefit of using the EP378 pump instead of the EP240? What are the downsides?

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Patrick
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Report this Post01-10-2013 07:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:

So EP240, and EP378 are interchangeable?


Yes and no.

 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:

What's the benefit of using the EP378 pump instead of the EP240?


I believe the EP378 is a slightly newer design with a slightly higher flow.

 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:

What are the downsides?


Might have to alter the electrical connectors (if the EP378 pump is used on an older Fiero).

Using the EP240 is probably the simpler route to go.

[EDIT] Of course, I have NO idea what engine you have or year of Fiero.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 01-11-2013).]

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oldbikeracer
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Report this Post01-11-2013 09:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for oldbikeracerClick Here to visit oldbikeracer's HomePageClick Here to Email oldbikeracerSend a Private Message to oldbikeracerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have just purchased an 87 GT that was parked for about 10 years. Same problem, checked all electrical connections and verified that voltage was at the fuel pump relay. Shorted fuel pump directly to the battery and still no pump. Pulled the fuel tank and found all sorts of nasty black goo and some rust in the tank. The tank is now at radiator shop for cleaning and lining. Will replace pump and strainer, also clean and adjust the sending unit for the gauge at the same time. I will also replace fuel filter. Hopefully have it done by end of next week. I still anticipate more fuel delivery problems but will not know until pump is fixed. You will probably have to go through the same process. I gave it a squirt of starting fluid and it fired off and ran for about a second so if I get fuel to it something should happen. I will replace all fluids and bleed the brakes as they are a bit mushy. Good luck with it. Here is link to my post. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/126597.html

[This message has been edited by oldbikeracer (edited 01-11-2013).]

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Austrian Import
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Report this Post01-11-2013 03:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Replaced the fuel pump. It was the fuel pump after all. Pump primes and car starts now. (backfires a bit, but then again it sat for 8 years, I'm sure there are other cobwebs to clear out.)

I think the longest part of the whole procedure was disconnecting the hoses and reconnecting them again. - Does anybody have any tips to make this faster/easier for next time?
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Austrian Import
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Report this Post01-11-2013 03:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Austrian Import

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Oh, I used the AC Delco EB378 pump. (which is spec'd for an '88) \
Rather than the EB240 (spec'd for other years).
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Report this Post01-11-2013 03:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Austrian Import

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Member since Feb 2007
 
quote
Originally posted by oldbikeracer:

I have just purchased an 87 GT that was parked for about 10 years. Same problem, checked all electrical connections and verified that voltage was at the fuel pump relay. Shorted fuel pump directly to the battery and still no pump. Pulled the fuel tank and found all sorts of nasty black goo and some rust in the tank. The tank is now at radiator shop for cleaning and lining. Will replace pump and strainer, also clean and adjust the sending unit for the gauge at the same time. I will also replace fuel filter. Hopefully have it done by end of next week. I still anticipate more fuel delivery problems but will not know until pump is fixed. You will probably have to go through the same process. I gave it a squirt of starting fluid and it fired off and ran for about a second so if I get fuel to it something should happen. I will replace all fluids and bleed the brakes as they are a bit mushy. Good luck with it. Here is link to my post. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/126597.html



I'd suggest replacing the oil and transmission fluid BEFORE you start it up. (based on the black sludge I drained from my oil pan) Personally, I'm holding off on replacing the coolant until the car ran for a bit and loosened all the crud out of the passages.

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Austrian Import
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Report this Post01-11-2013 03:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Austrian Import

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quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
Might have to alter the electrical connectors.
Using the EP240 is probably the simpler route to go.
[EDIT] Of course, I have NO idea what engine you have or year of Fiero.


EB240 and EB378 are interchangeable. I held them next to each other. Same exact connector.
I did have to get a wiring kit to adapt to the plug that AC Delco uses. Not sure if the pump in the car was aftermarket, or if there was more than one design of plug connector used. The pump in the car was connected with 2 spade connectors. Every pump sold I saw yesterday has a plug connector on it. Be it AC Delco, Airtex, or other Kragen / Autozone / etc. brands.
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Report this Post01-11-2013 08:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for oldbikeracerClick Here to visit oldbikeracer's HomePageClick Here to Email oldbikeracerSend a Private Message to oldbikeracerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Australian Import,

I have already changed oil and oil filter and plan to change trans fluid and filter this weekend. While bleeding brakes all brake fluid will be changed. I will change coolant shortly after engine is running, I just don't want to waste a bunch of coolant if there happens to be a leak.
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Report this Post01-11-2013 08:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:

EB240 and EB378 are interchangeable.


 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:

Oh, I used the AC Delco EB378 pump. (which is spec'd for an '88) \
Rather than the EB240 (spec'd for other years).


Quit calling them by the wrong numbers! They're EP240 and EP378.

And you never did state what year of Fiero/what engine you have.

 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:

I did have to get a wiring kit to adapt to the plug that AC Delco uses. Not sure if the pump in the car was aftermarket, or if there was more than one design of plug connector used. The pump in the car was connected with 2 spade connectors. Every pump sold I saw yesterday has a plug connector on it. Be it AC Delco, Airtex, or other Kragen / Autozone / etc. brands.


Well, that's exactly what I told you Here. Spade connectors are used on the '86 GTs (and no doubt other years) which makes the EP240 pump plug and play.

 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

I believe the EP378 is a slightly newer design with a slightly higher flow.

Might have to alter the electrical connectors (if the EP378 pump is used on an older Fiero).

Using the EP240 is probably the simpler route to go.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 01-11-2013).]

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Austrian Import
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Report this Post01-14-2013 06:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
the EP240 and EP378 have the exact same connector. What I was saying that whatever was in my car had a spade connector. Hence me having to adapt it.
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Patrick
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Report this Post01-14-2013 08:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Looking at this image of what I used (I received a EP240 when I actually ordered a EP378), I realize now that the spade connectors I was thinking of were the other wire connectors on the sending unit.



I never got a chance to actually see a EP378 (thanks to the dick eBay vendor), but I was led to believe by posts here that the electrical plug connection on the pump itself was different between these two pumps. If it's actually the same, great!
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Report this Post06-27-2013 06:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AndreeasClick Here to Email AndreeasSend a Private Message to AndreeasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm about to replace my fuelpump. Is there anything more I should replace than pump and strainer? Any gaskets I should order and let be replaced at the same time??
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Report this Post06-27-2013 08:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for James Bond 007Send a Private Message to James Bond 007Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Andreeas:

I'm about to replace my fuelpump. Is there anything more I should replace than pump and strainer? Any gaskets I should order and let be replaced at the same time??


Im guessing its totaley rusted inside....Been there,done that.The fuel pump is seized due to rust and most likely the sending unit and tank walls are rusted too. But it all depends on what fuel was in the vehicle. Ethonal...the kiss of death! Good Luck.
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Carrolles
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Report this Post06-29-2013 10:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CarrollesClick Here to Email CarrollesSend a Private Message to CarrollesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm just finishing replacing an 8 month old fuel pump in my 85gt. A shop installed it and used an off brand from Advance Auto. I thought they used AC Delco. The pump is still in warranty ($100) but the $300 of labor isn't. The shop ordered an AC Delco for me and gave it to me for free for the old pump.
Dropping the tank wasn't all that difficult. I actually spent more time cleaning up rusted straps and brackets.
I'm replacing the 8 month old fuel filter with a new AC Delco while I'm at it. Having trouble locating o-rings for the filter. Anyone use the Viton o-rings from Harbor Freight?
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Carrolles
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Report this Post06-30-2013 09:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CarrollesClick Here to Email CarrollesSend a Private Message to CarrollesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I bought the Harbor Freight set of Viton O-rings. It has around 200 O-rings of various sizes for around $10.00. The A011 7.65 x 1.78 fit fine.
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