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Quad 4 swap (lot of pics) by sardonyx247
Started on: 06-19-2012 04:54 AM
Replies: 304 (22307 views)
Last post by: Quad Raider on 07-03-2017 09:06 PM
Csjag
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Report this Post09-10-2014 08:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CsjagClick Here to Email CsjagSend a Private Message to CsjagEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

That picture of the motor in the car really looks like it should of had that motor from the factory! Excellent job, way beyond my skills.

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dbober
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Report this Post09-10-2014 10:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dboberClick Here to visit dbober's HomePageSend a Private Message to dboberEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

If memory serves me right, the high output Quad4 was scheduled for the 1989 model year.
But of course, that never happened.

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ericjon262
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Report this Post11-20-2014 08:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

still no vid? what gives?

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sardonyx247
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Report this Post11-21-2014 05:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Because I get busy fixing other peoples Fieros and forget.
I will see what I can do.

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Will
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Report this Post11-21-2014 12:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

Here are a couple of updates.

My last 2 fill-ups I got 25.6 MPG, (I havent checked it in months, untill now)
and I took my Fiero across a scale, and it came in at 2700 lbs.


How much gas? Spare tire in the front? what wheels/tires are you running?

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sardonyx247
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Report this Post11-21-2014 04:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


How much gas? Spare tire in the front? what wheels/tires are you running?


I have the stock size 15" wheels, 205/60-15 and 215/60-15, when I took it accros the scale I forget how much gas was it in, and nothing was missing from the car when I did.

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Will
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Report this Post11-22-2014 06:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

My Northstar car was 2895 with a few extra things (jumper cables up front & similar). I do have heavier than stock wheels and tires... just wondering how a Quad4 car got 200 lbs lighter.

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sardonyx247
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Report this Post11-22-2014 11:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

My Northstar car was 2895 with a few extra things (jumper cables up front & similar). I do have heavier than stock wheels and tires... just wondering how a Quad4 car got 200 lbs lighter.


You have 4 more cyls.?.?

My GT came in around 2850ish

My Quad Fiero also has man windows, man locks, I think the only option the car had was a sunroof. And it is a notchback too.
Every little thing adds up.

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Will
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Report this Post11-24-2014 05:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

A Northstar long block is about 310#.
A Q4 is lighter, but I don't think its short block weighs 100#

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sardonyx247
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Report this Post07-06-2016 04:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I haven't updated this, it looks like a year and a half, but no real problems for that long What a great daily driver.

But I do have a bad output bearing on the transmission, so time to change out transmissions, plus I decided to go with the 3.94 final drive vs the 3.61 I have been running.
And to change out the oil pan gasket, if you have the bracket that bolts to the exhaust manifold and then to the oil pan I do not recommend it, as far as I can tell it caused an oil leak. My engine is composed of a few different years so I used every bracket I had, probably a reason they dropped some of them, (besides being in different cars).

Another problem I have found is the 3.94 trans has only one mounting hole for the select cable bracket, so I had to make a bracket for the other mounting point.

Pics to come.

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post07-06-2016 10:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I envy your perseverance in completing the Quad Four swap. Looks like a really clean install. Over the years we have read mixed reviews on this engine but any swap is a work vs reward project. Look in the archives for posts from a member named bryson. He completed a turbo quad four project and was shooting for 400HP.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 07-06-2016).]

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sardonyx247
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Report this Post07-06-2016 12:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I remember bryson's build, he didn't do enough research and blamed others when he blew it up.
The mixed reviews I have always read about this engine are usally from people who didn't have one or just "what they read on the internet" so it must be true right they did have problems with bad head gaskets, but that was fixed, but people only remember the bad. Like these cars catch on fire right

I think this is a fun engine to drive, with a huge, wide power band. I went through everything on this engine when I built it and was amazed at all the tech GM put into it. It's not an engine for the masses as the masses whine too much about noise and vibration, thus why they had to keep detuning it. I think it's fun though

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Quad Raider
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Report this Post07-06-2016 12:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Quad RaiderClick Here to Email Quad RaiderSend a Private Message to Quad RaiderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

I think this is a fun engine to drive, with a huge, wide power band. I went through everything on this engine when I built it and was amazed at all the tech GM put into it. It's not an engine for the masses as the masses whine too much about noise and vibration, thus why they had to keep detuning it. I think it's fun though


That's a great way to put it. My GTZ was my daily driver for four years, so I was running that HO Quad on a 65-mile round trip every day. The struts were worn out, the body was rusting through underneath and the AC didn't work, but damn that car was fun to drive and I miss it every day.

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post07-06-2016 12:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

I remember bryson's build, he didn't do enough research and blamed others when he blew it up.
The mixed reviews I have always read about this engine are usally from people who didn't have one or just "what they read on the internet" so it must be true right they did have problems with bad head gaskets, but that was fixed, but people only remember the bad. Like these cars catch on fire right

I think this is a fun engine to drive, with a huge, wide power band. I went through everything on this engine when I built it and was amazed at all the tech GM put into it. It's not an engine for the masses as the masses whine too much about noise and vibration, thus why they had to keep detuning it. I think it's fun though


Years back I knew two guys (Joe Wynman and Bruce Cutter) that drove H.O, Quad Four Fiero's. Both cars had the stick, they enjoyed driving them, had reliability and liked the performance. They remarked that the power band was very strong above 3000 RPM. As for bryson; there is some good info on his posts in the archives. He put a lot of money into a questionable Q4 build and dire consequences resulted..

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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sardonyx247
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Report this Post07-06-2016 01:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I was posting in brysons thread, so I am very well versed in his build, he wouldn't answer any questions, that fell on his dad to answer, he was too busy trying to show off. I even talked to him on the phone, and all he wanted to do was to try to sell me his failed parts. But he was young at the time too. And I do give him some credit for trying, but he really didn't know what he was doing.

And yea, the power band is from 3000rpms up, it REALLY pulls hard from 3k all the way to 7,400. The power does not taper off either, that part is great.

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Report this Post07-06-2016 01:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

I was posting in brysons thread, so I am very well versed in his build, he wouldn't answer any questions, that fell on his dad to answer, he was too busy trying to show off. I even talked to him on the phone, and all he wanted to do was to try to sell me his failed parts. But he was young at the time too. And I do give him some credit for trying, but he really didn't know what he was doing.

And yea, the power band is from 3000rpms up, it REALLY pulls hard from 3k all the way to 7,400. The power does not taper off either, that part is great.


Given your intended transmission swap and your penchant for revs, are you sticking with 5W30, or moving to something with a little more bearing protection from the pounding. Some performance cars I've read have a recommendation to switch to a higher viscosity oil for track use. I use 5W40-50 synthetic due to high compression. Some anticipated I would have bearing problems from the increased compression but so far none in the past 4 yrs. The wider the spread between the first and second number, the greater the viscosity index; 5W40 offers more protection than 10W40 and 20W50, etc. It's an under appreciated topic but the oil comes off the bearings hotter than coolant temps and the hotter it gets over ~220 deg the thinner it gets. Keep that in mind, otherwise nice work.

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Report this Post07-06-2016 04:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LunaticClick Here to Email LunaticSend a Private Message to LunaticEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I've enjoyed reading this thread from the beginning. I can relate to this engine as I owned a 1990 GTZ years ago. The original engine had issues and was replaced with one from an Achieva SCX. I had a hollowed out cat, K&N filter and a performance chip from JET. None of my mechanic friends liked this engine but I did. 7500 RPM, 3rd gear, 180 KM/H no problem. I loved the way this engine sounded and performed. I couldn't find one recently so I decided to install the naturally aspirated 2.2 Ecotec into my Fiero. I'm finishing off the cradle mods and I hope to hear this run within the month.

Shayne

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Quad Raider
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Report this Post07-06-2016 10:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Quad RaiderClick Here to Email Quad RaiderSend a Private Message to Quad RaiderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I remember when the Quad came out and all the positive attention it got. I had friends who bought new Quad-equipped cars and loved them, until the head gaskets blew. Typical GM, all that time and money engineering the power plant and then a substandard secondary part costs the company major reputation points. I say this as a lifelong fan of GM products.

In some ways the Quad's story is just like the Fiero's. A lot of thought went into its production, but there were some problems. Anyone who knows how to correct the problems will be treated to a real treasure.

[This message has been edited by Quad Raider (edited 07-22-2016).]

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sardonyx247
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Report this Post07-07-2016 05:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Quad Raider:

In some ways the Quad's story is just like the Fiero's. A lot of thought went into its production, but there were some problems, Anyone who knows how to correct the problems will be treated to a real treasure.


What a great way to put it.


I found my oil leak, a crack in the oil pan, right where the bracket I said to leave off, the bolt hole. So I pulled my spare pan, wire wheeled off the grease, prepping it for paint, and found a damn crack in that one too. but that one is in the bottom so hopefully it can be fixed.
I handed it off to my friend Chris to weld it up at his work, (I don't have the equipment to weld aluminum) So hopefully tomorrow It will be fixed, or I will be scouring the yards looking for a pan, but they are getting harder to find. I want everything fixed by Friday so I can take it to the track. I have alot of work to do in the next 2 days. I might make it, I might not. I have pics to come, but want to get it all done first. I still love this engine.

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Quad Raider
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Report this Post07-07-2016 09:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Quad RaiderClick Here to Email Quad RaiderSend a Private Message to Quad RaiderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Lunatic:

I've enjoyed reading this thread from the beginning. I can relate to this engine as I owned a 1990 GTZ years ago. The original engine had issues and was replaced with one from an Achieva SCX. I had a hollowed out cat, K&N filter and a performance chip from JET. None of my mechanic friends liked this engine but I did. 7500 RPM, 3rd gear, 180 KM/H no problem. I loved the way this engine sounded and performed. I couldn't find one recently so I decided to install the naturally aspirated 2.2 Ecotec into my Fiero. I'm finishing off the cradle mods and I hope to hear this run within the month.

Shayne


I love your build thread, too. Your work is amazing. Your thread has me thinking about trying the same swap, if I ever get this freaking Quad swap finished. As Sardonyx said, Quads are getting hard to find in the salvage yards, but Ecotecs are everywhere.

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sardonyx247
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Report this Post07-08-2016 06:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Well I got most of it done today. Oil pan was fixed, yea Chris, and installed, BTW the oil pan gasket is reusable (per GM) shift fork, custom bracket, and all accessories transferred to the new transmission, transmission back in the car, cradle fixed and back in the car (it had a couple of cracks (I think I hit a rock somewhere, probably one of my off road trips (Yes I take this off road, nothing like flying down a dirt road doing 90mph )) Part of the day was waiting for paint to dry. I decided to paint my exhaust this time as I didn't have time last time. Here is a good trick for exhaust paint, use barbecue paint, VERY high heat, flat black and cheaper and better than high heat exhaust paint. I still have an hour or two tomorrow to finish it all up. Axles, sway bar, suspension, fluids, test drive and clean up.

I counted the turns and found I have this transmission.

I will add the calcs to show the differance

1992-1994
1st 3.50 13.79
2nd 2.05 8.077
3rd 1.38 5.4372
4th 1.03 4.0582
5th 0.72 2.8368
Axle 3.94

I went from this one

1991
1st 3.77 13.6097
2nd 2.19 7.9059
3rd 1.38 4.9818
4th 1.03 3.7183
5th 0.81 2.9241
Axle 3.61

So you can see it will be quicker in 1-4th with a lower geared overdrive in 5th
After driving it all this time I may get better mpg as I looked at the different years it came in and the 3.94 seemed to get better mpg as the power band and efficiency is higher up, plus the better 5th. I never owned a high rev'r DOHC before so I figured lower rpms the better, but may not be in this case, we shall see. 1st and 2nd are not too far off from each other, between trans, 3rd and 4th are a ways apart, 5th goes the other way. Either way I will be happy when the damn ratting is gone form the output bearing. It was hard to pinpoint as it would only happen sometimes, and only around some corners, on and off throttle but never while sitting still even under load. I found it as when I changed my struts I moved one of the axles and said "hey there's that noise" I had it since the install. Sounded like an exhaust rattle. And after going to the track a few times with the Quad, I wanted a faster trans, as 3rd is what carries you down most of the 1/4. And all Getrags have the same 3rd so it is the final drive that changes things. This trans, with the high rev limit, will still go over 200mph, not that a Fiero can handle that but still nice to know
I still have a few pics to upload, especially the custom bracket needed for this trans case.
I may have to wait until next track day later this month, as I may be going out of town tomorrow, we shall see. Even with the times I have ran so far I am the quickest 4 cylinder Fiero for the quarter mile list. I have yet to post times.


------------------
"DRIVE IT LIKE A FIERO"
'84 Fiero, engine to be determined '87 Duke (Sold)
'87 Quad 4 H.O.
'87Blue GT 3.4L Swap Completed!!!!!!!! Boosted!!!!!!!
^^^^ Now in the Construction Zone^^^^
Las Vegas Fiero Club Parts/Sales/Service/Club
Fiero Road Club Of Northern Nevada
Now on my 11th Fiero

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sardonyx247
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Report this Post07-22-2016 02:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Now for some pics

Here is the crack in my oil pan



My new pan



Painted



I have to say, I pulled this from a Buick Skylark, I never want to do that again, there are so many things in the way of pulling the oil pan, in the Fiero I only had to drop my rear sway bar and the coolant tube to get at the whole pan. To get it out of the Buick it took alot of tools and a hacksaw to get it out.

Another trick I learned on the quads, to reinstall the spacers that go between the pan and trans. Make sure the spacers have no paint on the ends, and soak them in ice water for like 10 mins, It barely helps but just enough to get them in. Heres a pic of the spacer.

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 07-22-2016).]

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Quad Raider
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Report this Post07-22-2016 08:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Quad RaiderClick Here to Email Quad RaiderSend a Private Message to Quad RaiderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

When my brother gave me his '92 GTZ in 2008 with a blown head gasket, I pulled the engine and transmission out the top. Hell of a job. Then getting them back in was even tougher.

In 2012 when I was junking the car I dropped the cradle. So much easier.

I love all the extra room in the Fiero engine compartment. Great tip about those spacers. Someone on the Quad forum made the point that they're crucial.

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sardonyx247
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Report this Post07-03-2017 06:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Update:
I lost all 3 motor mount bolts on the firewall side, so make sure to locktite them in, I used blue this time (I know most of you have natural locktite, rust, but here in Vegas, it is hard to keep bolts in)
High vibration engine and all.

And I think my old transmission may have been faster 0.3 secs on the 1/4, but it could have been the heat too, haven't logged MPG yet.

I can't believe it has been 5 years since I started this swap, I still love it, what a good daily driver. The power band is just awesome, more power band than most engines have RPMs.


------------------
"DRIVE IT LIKE A FIERO"
'84 Fiero, engine to be determined '87 Duke (Sold)
'87 Quad 4 H.O.
'87Blue GT 3.4L Swap Completed!!!!!!!! Boosted!!!!!!!
^^^^ Now in the Construction Zone^^^^
Las Vegas Fiero Club Parts/Sales/Service/Club
Fiero Road Club Of Northern Nevada
Now on my 11th Fiero

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Quad Raider
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Report this Post07-03-2017 09:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Quad RaiderClick Here to Email Quad RaiderSend a Private Message to Quad RaiderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Glad to see an update.

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