Pennock's Fiero Forum
  Technical Discussion & Questions
  Rodney's Lowering Ball Joints.. easiest/best way to move the rear down too?

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


next newest topic | next oldest topic
Rodney's Lowering Ball Joints.. easiest/best way to move the rear down too? by Racing_Master
Started on: 05-30-2012 01:29 PM
Replies: 22 (766 views)
Last post by: Knight on 02-22-2014 10:12 PM
Racing_Master
Member
Posts: 1460
From: Hooksett, NH, USA
Registered: Nov 2007


Feedback score: (4)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-30-2012 01:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Racing_MasterSend a Private Message to Racing_MasterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, I got a bad ball joint in my front end, so I might as well make it better, instead of stock. I plan on adding Rodney's 1" Lowering Ball Joint to it. I have stock 15" GT Rims, so hopefully they will not pose a clearance issue.

My main concern is, since I will lower the front by 1" without changing my spring rate... what is the most reccomended procedure for lowering the rear by 1" as well, to keep the car looking proper? I could cut coils but that would increase spring rates in the rear and may throw off the balance of the car. Or is it reccomended to get new springs for the front at a higher spring rate, and matching the rear spring rates with lowering springs?

Just wondering what others do in this situation!
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
Lou6t4gto
Member
Posts: 8421
From: Ocala, FL USA
Registered: May 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-30-2012 06:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I cut a coil, didn't see much difference in harshness of ride. If I had to do it again (& I will), I will be using "Coil Overs", that way there's room for "More Tire".
IP: Logged
raccoons
Member
Posts: 134
From: Houston, Tx
Registered: May 2011


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-30-2012 06:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for raccoonsSend a Private Message to raccoonsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yeah, coil-overs are a good idea. You get to choose the spring rate and adjust the height to your liking.

------------------
My project: 3800 Series III Supercharged + F40 6-speed into an 87 GT. Wish me luck!

IP: Logged
ConvictedRedneck
Member
Posts: 1034
From: Easton, PA - USA
Registered: Nov 2005


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-30-2012 06:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ConvictedRedneckClick Here to Email ConvictedRedneckSend a Private Message to ConvictedRedneckEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Familiar with the coilover conversion for the rear?
IP: Logged
Racing_Master
Member
Posts: 1460
From: Hooksett, NH, USA
Registered: Nov 2007


Feedback score: (4)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-30-2012 09:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Racing_MasterSend a Private Message to Racing_MasterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks guys! I am familiar with them but a quick workaround would be more wanted, but I hate half a$$ing anything, so might as well get WCF's performance spring package along with Rodney's lowering ball-joints. This way I can maintain even spring-rate front and rear, and use the coil-overs to adjust the rear height to match the front.
IP: Logged
Bleau29
Member
Posts: 45
From: CubRun, Kentucky, US
Registered: May 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-30-2012 10:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Bleau29Click Here to Email Bleau29Send a Private Message to Bleau29Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I was wondering about it to, wfc's coil over kit seem to be the best bet. I like to look of it and the price isnt that bad.
IP: Logged
Lou6t4gto
Member
Posts: 8421
From: Ocala, FL USA
Registered: May 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post02-05-2014 06:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Got a LINK for that kit ?
IP: Logged
craigsfiero2007
Member
Posts: 3979
From: Livermore, ME
Registered: Aug 2007


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 71
Rate this member

Report this Post02-05-2014 07:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for craigsfiero2007Click Here to Email craigsfiero2007Send a Private Message to craigsfiero2007Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:

Got a LINK for that kit ?


http://www.westcoastfiero.c...nsion/coilovers.html
IP: Logged
garage monster
Member
Posts: 350
From: Rogue Valley, Oregon
Registered: Nov 2007


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post02-05-2014 07:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for garage monsterSend a Private Message to garage monsterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

West Coast Fiero Coil Over Kits

That is the link. I used an article on the forum and converted my struts with springs from QA1 and I think the sleeves and rings from Summit. It was easy and adjustable.
IP: Logged
Knight
Member
Posts: 364
From: Tampa, FL
Registered: Apr 2006


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post02-19-2014 09:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KnightSend a Private Message to KnightEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What about roll center change with the new angle of the upper a-arm. Also the camber change will be more with suspension travel. Any thoughts?
IP: Logged
Knight
Member
Posts: 364
From: Tampa, FL
Registered: Apr 2006


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post02-19-2014 09:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KnightSend a Private Message to KnightEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Knight

364 posts
Member since Apr 2006
Double post

[This message has been edited by Knight (edited 02-19-2014).]

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
carbon
Member
Posts: 4767
From: Eagan, MN
Registered: Apr 2004


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 133
Rate this member

Report this Post02-20-2014 08:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looks to me like you already got your answer...

Lowering ball joints
IP: Logged
Knight
Member
Posts: 364
From: Tampa, FL
Registered: Apr 2006


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post02-20-2014 09:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KnightSend a Private Message to KnightEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Not regally carbon. The effect to roll center is different between a lowering spring ( both arms are equally changed within original geometry) and using a lowering ball joint (changes the suspension geometry because it changes the relationship between the two arms).
So the question wasn't really answered as the lowering ball joint changes the geometry and the arc of each a-arm.
IP: Logged
fieroguru
Member
Posts: 11233
From: Champaign, IL
Registered: Aug 2003


Feedback score:    (45)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 255
Rate this member

Report this Post02-21-2014 07:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Knight:

Not regally carbon. The effect to roll center is different between a lowering spring ( both arms are equally changed within original geometry) and using a lowering ball joint (changes the suspension geometry because it changes the relationship between the two arms).
So the question wasn't really answered as the lowering ball joint changes the geometry and the arc of each a-arm.


The "geometry" of the upper and lower a-arms is defined by lines that pass through the pivots (ball joints and bushings), not the shape or perceived angle of the arms. The lowering ball joints keep the lower ball joint pivot in the same location vs. the upper ball joint at the spindle, but shift its base connection to the lower a-arm down, so the geometric changes between using lowering ball joints and lowering/cut springs is very close. The only real difference is the lateral placement of the lower ball joint pivot by a very small amount - due to it being shifted perpendicularly from the lower a-arm vs. following the arc of travel of the lower a-arm, but this is likely less than 1/16" and won't change things much.

Dropped spindles are the only bolt-on way to lower the suspension without significantly changing the suspension geometry.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 02-21-2014).]

IP: Logged
2.5
Member
Posts: 40909
From: Southern MN
Registered: May 2007


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 178
Rate this member

Report this Post02-21-2014 10:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Dropped spindles are the only bolt-on way to lower the suspension without significantly changing the suspension geometry.



So the best way? Unless you are trying to make the geometry better than stock?
IP: Logged
kennn
Member
Posts: 263
From: Green Valley, AZ USA
Registered: Apr 2006


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post02-21-2014 11:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for kennnClick Here to Email kennnSend a Private Message to kennnEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes, "dropped" (actually raised) spindles are the way to maintain stock geometry. Then you have the rear geometry consideration: Do you utilize coil-overs and lower the rear a similar amount? If so, the result is lower control arms ('88 here) sloped upwards from the inner pivots to the outer connection, beginning to introduce positive camber, ever increasing as the suspension increasingly goes to jounce (compression); not desirable. One would like to have ever increasing negative camber to maintain proper tire contact withe road as the car leans in a corner.

What I have done is to raise the inner pivots an amount nearly equal to the raising of the front spindle. However, after raising the inner pivots, at static ride height with the lateral links level, I was left with about 3/4" travel in compression before contacting the bump stops of my (Held) rear coil-over struts. I ended up raising the top mount of the struts to accommodate more travel. All because I wanted lowering spindles for the front. And to maintain original geometry. Now that I've gone this far I see that It appears necessary to also raise the inner pivot of the trailing link a like amount.

Ken

------------------
'88 Formula V6
'88 GT TPI V8

IP: Logged
fieroguru
Member
Posts: 11233
From: Champaign, IL
Registered: Aug 2003


Feedback score:    (45)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 255
Rate this member

Report this Post02-21-2014 01:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:
So the best way? Unless you are trying to make the geometry better than stock?


Best from a geometry perspective, yes, but probably not best from a cost standpoint (dropped spindles are $550ish). For a daily driver, most would never notice the difference between the three options (springs, spindles, ball joints), so many (myself included) opt for the lower cost options. Eventually I will get some dropped spindles.


 
quote
Originally posted by kennn:

What I have done is to raise the inner pivots an amount nearly equal to the raising of the front spindle.

Ken



[shameless plug]
Or you can use a bolt on kit that lowers the outer lateral link attachment points by 1 1/2":

Mall thread:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/060635.html

Website page:
http://fieroguruperformance.com/?page_id=267

[/shameless plug]

IP: Logged
kennn
Member
Posts: 263
From: Green Valley, AZ USA
Registered: Apr 2006


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post02-21-2014 10:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kennnClick Here to Email kennnSend a Private Message to kennnEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Good one, Guru.

Ken

------------------
'88 Formula V6
'88 GT TPI V8

IP: Logged
qwikgta
Member
Posts: 4496
From: Virginia Beach, VA
Registered: Jan 2001


Feedback score:    (21)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 83
Rate this member

Report this Post02-21-2014 11:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
there is only two ways to lower the suspension. The right way and the half-ass way. Buy dropped springs, dropped spindles, dropped ball joints for the front, and either coil overs or swap out the springs for the rear. (Fiero Guru has a few posts on how to replace your rear springs with stock springs (cut down) if you don't want to purchase the coil over kit)

Rob
IP: Logged
weloveour86se
Member
Posts: 4289
From: maine
Registered: Feb 2011


Feedback score:    (115)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 75
Rate this member

Report this Post02-22-2014 08:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for weloveour86seSend a Private Message to weloveour86seEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Take a quick look at this thread regarding RD front ball joints.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/124865.html

Rodney chimes in there. They are NOT plug and play. Ask me how I know...
IP: Logged
carbon
Member
Posts: 4767
From: Eagan, MN
Registered: Apr 2004


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 133
Rate this member

Report this Post02-22-2014 12:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by weloveour86se:

Take a quick look at this thread regarding RD front ball joints.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/124865.html

Rodney chimes in there. They are NOT plug and play. Ask me how I know...


The lowering ball joints are most definitely plug and play... that thread is about getting more adjustment with his upper ball joints which, at least on a pre-88 with lowering ball joints, appear to not be plug and play.

I had no issues with the 1988 versions, but the alignment adjustments on the 88s are obviously made in a completely different way.
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
dematrix86gt
Member
Posts: 490
From: havana arkansas
Registered: Jul 2013


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post02-22-2014 12:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dematrix86gtClick Here to Email dematrix86gtSend a Private Message to dematrix86gtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Dont got to be a shameless plug, Plug that stuff!! the more sales you get might make you develop future products for our beloved cars! i one personally want to thank you for your contribution to our hobby.
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:


[shameless plug]
Or you can use a bolt on kit that lowers the outer lateral link attachment points by 1 1/2":

Mall thread:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/060635.html

Website page:
http://fieroguruperformance.com/?page_id=267

[/shameless plug]


IP: Logged
Knight
Member
Posts: 364
From: Tampa, FL
Registered: Apr 2006


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post02-22-2014 10:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KnightSend a Private Message to KnightEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Why do we need to use the adjustable upper ball joints? I would think that using the standard ones would give us more static negative camber as the effective length of the UCA is shorter due to its upward angle. Problem seems to be the lack of offset in the slotted ball joints compared to the std ones.
Also, since we have to slot the holes in the UCA anyway, can we just use the std ball joints? Again because of its offset. Only problem would be if we could not get enough adjustment with ot without slotting the UCA and using std ball joints.
IP: Logged

next newest topic | next oldest topic

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock