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rebuilt 3800sc reinstall and no Spark/injector waiting for OBD2 scanner by Tweeter
Started on: 05-26-2012 02:52 PM
Replies: 11 (322 views)
Last post by: cmechmann on 06-19-2015 08:39 PM
Tweeter
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Report this Post05-26-2012 02:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TweeterSend a Private Message to TweeterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Update: Was a bad Crank Position Sensor.

Well a little history...

Had my 2.8 replaced with a 3800sc II from a 2001 Bonneville. Drove about 1900 miles and shipped it off to Germany.
I picked it up from the shipper and on my 15 mile trip to the house it spun a bearing (number 1 connecting rod).
Tear down and rebuilt. Reinstall and guess what no spark,
I've triple checked all the wires and connectors. Also check ground and power on all leads and locations that i could reach or poke.

Day two of the tear down it started to rain so i hooked up the battery and connected the positive and neg cables to roll up of the windows. First attempt was unsuccessful i checked that i had the correct wires and tried again this time we had power. Rolled up the windows

1) is it possible i shorted out the PCM if the 1st time i had the wires crossed?)
2) Could the PCM reset to factory defaults/security? It was with out power 75 days?
3) i haven't scanned the computer or reset any codes. I'll be ordering a OBD 2 scanner and or possibly a HP Tuner (never hurts to have one right?)

Fuel pump primes and pressure is 40-60psi
Oil pressure climbs to 20-30 while cranking
There is no smell of fuel in the exhaust or on the plugs.
I attached my spark tester and no light while crank.
Tach also stays at 0 while crank.
I've tried the security relearn if that's even enabled (hope its disabled)

4) So what else can i check or test?

Thanks for any help and or ideas.

Jason

[This message has been edited by Tweeter (edited 06-19-2015).]

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MstangsBware
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Report this Post05-26-2012 04:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Common issue is the plugs on the ICM harness. Just went thru this with a local a month ago..One pin was slightly pushed back and was causing a.no spark/fuel issue..
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Tweeter
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Report this Post05-28-2012 07:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TweeterSend a Private Message to TweeterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Checked the ICM harness and did some more checking. Connection is fine continuity between the Crank PS and Cam PS to ICM is good. the ICM has power and ground on the correct wires. I pulled the crank pully off and did a visual on the CKPS and it appears fine no dmg.. So im thinking possibly the ICM or PCM
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Report this Post05-28-2012 09:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tweeter:

Checked the ICM harness and did some more checking. Connection is fine continuity between the Crank PS and Cam PS to ICM is good. the ICM has power and ground on the correct wires. I pulled the crank pully off and did a visual on the CKPS and it appears fine no dmg.. So im thinking possibly the ICM or PCM


The problem with the plug is that the pin get barely pushed back into the plug so it does not make good contact. This is the issue that I ran into a while back and did all the checks you mentioned. Continuity was good thru the wires but the pin pushed back was the issue...Ended up just swapping in another ICM harness and the ***** fired up. The pin that was causing the issue was barely pushed back in the plug but it made all the differance...
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Tweeter
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Report this Post05-30-2012 02:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TweeterSend a Private Message to TweeterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well it appears the Ignition Control Module (ICM) is bad..

Read below and see if i missed anything. Thanks again.


here is the steps taken to check ICM and Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor





Pass= Yes
Fail = No

Failed Step 3 No RPMs
Passed Step 4
Passed Step 6 (12 Volts)
Failed Step 7 (12 volts)


Failed Step 12 (good fail)
Failed Step 14 (I think "An Open" has me confused as well as the wife who has training in electrical components) (C130 Communication and Navigations Repair) (yes those planes are 50 yrs old)
Going to step 27




Failed step 27
Step 31 Replace ICM



So even if it passed at 14 it nvr says to replace the CKP Senor

So here in a few days my OBD2 Scanner and HP Tuner should be here and i'll check the PCM/CODES.
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revin
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Report this Post05-30-2012 03:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for revinSend a Private Message to revinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would wait till the scanner gets there before you go and spend $$$ on a new ICM.
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MstangsBware
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Report this Post05-30-2012 04:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by revin:

I would wait till the scanner gets there before you go and spend $$$ on a new ICM.


New ICM can be had for like $40 off Ebay......They are much cheaper that having to by from AutoZone when your buddies car blows urs up 4 hours from the house with a car event to go to the next day.....Plus it is good to always have a spare ICM....I keep 2-4 around these days....
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revin
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Report this Post05-30-2012 05:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for revinSend a Private Message to revinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:


New ICM can be had for like $40 off Ebay......They are much cheaper that having to by from AutoZone when your buddies car blows urs up 4 hours from the house with a car event to go to the next day.....Plus it is good to always have a spare ICM....I keep 2-4 around these days....


just let it go.....
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MstangsBware
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Report this Post05-30-2012 05:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by revin:


just let it go.....


Alright....Let's bring up that race we had at another event then...let me see if I can dig up that old Thread to see how it went.....
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Tweeter
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Report this Post05-30-2012 05:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TweeterSend a Private Message to TweeterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:


is good to always have a spare ICM....I keep 2-4 around these days....


I was thinking spare as well. except TY for the idea about Ebay.. going to go search that now

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Tweeter
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Report this Post06-19-2015 01:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TweeterSend a Private Message to TweeterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Surprised I never replied it was the Crank Position Sensor.
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cmechmann
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Report this Post06-19-2015 08:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cmechmannClick Here to Email cmechmannSend a Private Message to cmechmannEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sorry The pics don't come through for me to view your flow chart.
Most GM flow charts for that ignition go as follows.
Check 12v and ground to module. Check for voltage from module to Cam and Crank sensors. Check for pulse from signal from crank sensor.(3/18x) Check for pulse from Cam sensor. Then check for coil control. I normally use a led that I put on the crank and cam return signals to check both at the same time. Most of the time I do it all right at the ICM connector unless I get a good volt out reading with no Crank/Cam return. Then I check connectors. The ICM acts as a voltage regulator for the Cam and crank sensors. That's why they have you check voltage in and out first. If voltage out is bad, bad ICM. Then they have you check Cam/Crank signal. If those are OK they have you check at least 1 coil control. If you have Cam/Crank signal and no coil control, bad ICM. The failures aren't as frequent as other systems unless the volt out gets shorted or some one runs with a bad coil. Don't see many Crank sensors go bad unless the flags on the balancer hit them. Same with the Cam sensor. Normally Vats/Passkey/anti theft will kill injector pulses.
You said you tore the engine down. You had the timing cover off? Did you remove the timing gear? If so, remove the Cam sensor. With a mirror, look in the cam sensor hole and bring the engine around to make sure the magnet didn't fall off the plastic holder for the Cam sensor. Very common issue. IF so it can be repaired with the timing cover on(PITA) but you would still have a piece of plastic and a magnet rolling around inside.

[This message has been edited by cmechmann (edited 06-19-2015).]

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