That they choked it down for the EPA doesn't mean it was anywhere near it's limits.
Never in my 40 yrs have I seen or heard ANYONE defend a 305. Wow, just.... wow. I'd be embarrased if my v8 had an amazing 150-185hp!. Yeeeeehhhaawww! As for your Sprint comment, ummm lets pop down to the local pick N pull and grab a few. lol
Me thinks you missed my point entirely.
[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 05-26-2012).]
Never in my 40 yrs have I seen or heard ANYONE defend a 305. Wow, just.... wow. I'd be embarrased if my v8 had an amazing 150-185hp!. Yeeeeehhhaawww! As for your Sprint comment, ummm lets pop down to the local pick N pull and grab a few. lol
Me thinks you missed my point entirely.
Why be embarrased....V-8 Slurpee has been doing it for 20 years and still going strong...
It Amazes me how some will take a stock HP figure and act like that is it for the engine thats all it can make sure the 305 only made that much HP but with the right bolt on's it could also make much much more . I mean just take that same 305 throw on a set of vortec heads and a good cam and intake and headers it will make 300 to 350 HP with little effort then do every ones favorite go find that junkyard turbo and run some boost and get even more HP . We should look at a engine HP potential not what it makes stock and a SBC has allot of potential to make HP
I know I tend to ramble and get distracted when I type, but is it really that difficult to follow the point(s) I try to make, or are reading comprehension issues that prevalent these days? I digress.....
------------------ Whodeanie built 1988 Fiero GT, loaded, 14k original miles, F23, built L67 swap, ST2 cam and matching valvetrain, PT67 bb turbo, w2a charge-cooled ----400-500whp?????? More mods when I get it back (interior, suspension, lighting etc). Stay tuned! 1987 Fiero GT Road Racer. 1st documented 3.4TDC swap- built in 1994. 5MT Isuzu, Quaife prototype LSD, HT Tubular A-arms, Fully poly & Heim jointed suspension, Custom 3 way adjustible sway bars, HT Bump Steer kit, Koin's, 320# springs, GA brakes, ZEX N20 and more! Under full restoration. 2007 Toyota Tacoma Double cab Prerunner SR5 Stock, and staying that way. 2009 KTM 250SX motocross bike. Modded and fun as hell!
It Amazes me how some will take a stock HP figure and act like that is it for the engine thats all it can make sure the 305 only made that much HP but with the right bolt on's it could also make much much more . I mean just take that same 305 throw on a set of vortec heads and a good cam and intake and headers it will make 300 to 350 HP with little effort then do every ones favorite go find that junkyard turbo and run some boost and get even more HP . We should look at a engine HP potential not what it makes stock and a SBC has allot of potential to make HP
I have heard these same words from so many over the years try it still hasn't been done....I agree getting HO out of a SBC is not difficult but very few have accomplished it over the years...
you are Right not to many do it because there are better engine choices in the SBC family but remember back in the 80's a non turbo 3.8 made between 125 to 150 hp not exactly world beating there either and the turbo Buick's where about 250 hp unless it was a GNX and that really is a far cry from a turbocharged V6 of todays standards
[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 05-26-2012).]
That they choked it down for the EPA doesn't mean it was anywhere near it's limits.
Lol... "choked down" doesn't begin to describe it. To get power out of one of those engines, you'd need to do at the very least a complete top end swap, cam + full valvetrain and really should go with higher compression pistons... not a whole lot left of the original engine at that point.
Yes, a small block with 3.736 bore and 3.48 stroke can be built to make power. Such an engine is greatly removed from *most* of the factory 305's, however. The most powerful 305 that GM built was only 220 HP, too.
Actually I have a good friend Brandon here in East Tennessee that built a drag car from a 305 block. It is actually more of a tube car but it ran pretty nice numbers in the eigth mile here in Maryville at the local track. I believe it is called 411 motor speedway. It probably has at least 350HP if not more based on the ride in it I took after work one day. He built it because he had the motor and it was free so built what he had. His father and his brothers build a lot of drag cars and he runs at Thunder valley sometimes. He was ALMOST on pinks all out but got beat out in the prelims.... Yeah you can built a 305 just fine if you know what you are doing. Peace
Originally posted by joshua riedl: And Will, your timeslip isn't highlighted on the quarter mile list anyway.
Until Cliff brought out the experimental Google based search, it was easy to find my numbers. I actually didn't post my slip to my original thread, but have posted it since, elsewhere. It was tough to find with the previous search engine... it'll be impossible to find with the new one unless significant refinements are made.
Lol... "choked down" doesn't begin to describe it. To get power out of one of those engines, you'd need to do at the very least a complete top end swap, cam + full valvetrain and really should go with higher compression pistons... not a whole lot left of the original engine at that point.
Yes, a small block with 3.736 bore and 3.48 stroke can be built to make power. Such an engine is greatly removed from *most* of the factory 305's, however. The most powerful 305 that GM built was only 220 HP, too.
The same can be said for a lot of motors that are highly regarded. All I ever heard about my ZX300 Nissan was how much potential it had. The same with Mitsu amd Honda stuff. They weren't burning down the barn stock. And since when is 220 HP, (and good torque) slow in a Fiero? That would certainly make a nice ride.
It Amazes me how some will take a stock HP figure and act like that is it for the engine thats all it can make sure the 305 only made that much HP but with the right bolt on's it could also make much much more . I mean just take that same 305 throw on a set of vortec heads and a good cam and intake and headers it will make 300 to 350 HP with little effort then do every ones favorite go find that junkyard turbo and run some boost and get even more HP . We should look at a engine HP potential not what it makes stock and a SBC has allot of potential to make HP
You're right. That's why everyone and their brother who owns a 3rd gen F-body is bolting on an LS1 or better. LS376 crate motor is one of the best bolt-ons you can get for a 305.
Originally posted by Will: Until Cliff brought out the experimental Google based search, it was easy to find my numbers. I actually didn't post my slip to my original thread, but have posted it since, elsewhere. It was tough to find with the previous search engine... it'll be impossible to find with the new one unless significant refinements are made.
You're right. That's why everyone and their brother who owns a 3rd gen F-body is bolting on an LS1 or better. LS376 crate motor is one of the best bolt-ons you can get for a 305.
I know I'm probably stupid for even trying to defend what I own in this predominantly 3800 forum...but I own a ls1 TA with the t56. I ran it several years ago at the track and pulled a 13.05 on street tires. It is a pretty fast car by factory standards...oh yea its a ws6 too. Anyway even though I haven't run my fiero...partly due to no 1/4 mile track near me...and partly because I don't want to carry a five galllon bucket for my tranny to go in when I'm done. My fiero IS a faster car...several times from a 30 mph roll against my brother I've run my old girl and its always been two or three lengths ahead by 100. I'm not saying 3800s aren't good...it has been proven different here many times...but I know my, and I'm sure several other v8s here are very fast in their own right. It's just that with the low end torque of a built 350 you're not going to take off from a dead stop without blowing either the trans or the tires completely loose. My build was very easy to do...relatively cheap (2300 so far including car) and stone cold reliable as compression is 9.5...I don't need a computer to tune it and I'm very happy with the setup other than axle failure which I believe is resolved now. Everyone go ahead and kick me now as I'm done but remember me because I have a big surprise for all coming soon. Jay
The same can be said for a lot of motors that are highly regarded. All I ever heard about my ZX300 Nissan was how much potential it had. The same with Mitsu amd Honda stuff. They weren't burning down the barn stock. And since when is 220 HP, (and good torque) slow in a Fiero? That would certainly make a nice ride.
You don't get it. Those engines have cylinder heads and cams from the factory that can make decent power. The boat anchor 305's do not. As I noted above, the number of components you have to replace on a TBI 305 to get power out of it essentially amounts to a complete overhaul with more than half the major assemblies replaced with aftermarket components...
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 05-26-2012).]
Umm GM Factory stock 350 SBC 96 and up Vortec heads flow 230 CFM at .500 lift thats enough to make over 450 HP and that is stock out of the box 1.94 intake and 1.5 exhaust valves . the heads that had that swirl turd i mean port where just JUNK so any engine that had them and you put on a good set of vortec will pick up power . I am not sure What the 305 Vortec 96 and up flowed the where 58 cc chamber
[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 05-26-2012).]
well then compare apples to apples talk about other V8 that where produced in the 80's don't compare what a v8 is now and pick a Chevy v8 from then to just make it look bad
well then compare apples to apples talk about other V8 that where produced in the 80's don't compare what a v8 is now and pick a Chevy v8 from then to just make it look bad
Well, at least BV Motorsports was right. A course in reading comprehension wouldn't be a bad idea, you know.
So wow i would be embarresed if my V6 had 260 HP with a SC in 2006 when other V6 make that and more NA
quote
Originally posted by BV MotorSports:
Never in my 40 yrs have I seen or heard ANYONE defend a 305. Wow, just.... wow. I'd be embarrased if my v8 had an amazing 150-185hp!. Yeeeeehhhaawww! As for your Sprint comment, ummm lets pop down to the local pick N pull and grab a few. lol
Me thinks you missed my point entirely.
[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 05-27-2012).]
So wow i would be embarresed if my V6 had 260 HP with a SC in 2006 when other V6 make that and more NA
I dont know, do you have a running and drivable, swapped Fiero?
Last comment, no not at all. Its called progress. If they DIDN'T make more HP/TQ and get better MPG then the MFG should be embarrassed. FFS dude, engage your brain before opening your mouth.
[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 05-27-2012).]
I stay out of threads like this because there is so much heat generated over this topic that it can make the choice hard to make. But my contribution to this thread is purly opinion and may very from person to person depending on expectationa wants and needs.
My LS4 gets about 25mpg "looks" is a VERY subjective term. Ithink the Short Star "looks" better than a 3800
well then compare apples to apples talk about other V8 that where produced in the 80's don't compare what a v8 is now and pick a Chevy v8 from then to just make it look bad
We were discussing why a TBI 305 is a a turd flat out, rather than a gem in the rough like the Yamaha V6 in the Taurus SHO.
Yes that is your opinion and mine is that the 3800 is not a world beater in stock forum i would take a 3900 with much better flowing heads
Ok so you take the 3900 over the L67, then what? How much would it take to get each to an easy number of 400hp? The only option you have, really, is N20 for the 3900. But wait, your gonna tell me how awesome the heads are and its potential, right? Its a flase economy and you know it. Now you are getting into the NA vs FI debate. And we all know its easier to make more power (reliably too) with forced induction.
Again, I dont see where anyone said the L67 was a "world beater". But it is THE Fiero engine swap ATM.
You really like to make things difficult for yourself. Really think before you post.
[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 05-28-2012).]
We were discussing why a TBI 305 is a a turd flat out, rather than a gem in the rough like the Yamaha V6 in the Taurus SHO.
My dad had one of those with a manual, that was an awesome setup!! But that was when I was younger, I more remember the 97 V8 SHO we had, that I first started driving on. I miss that car.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-28-2012).]
I always read This thread. It's been surprisingly civil lately. We all have our preferences, myself included, but it's interesting to me how other people think. A lot of the conclusions posted are learned and valid, but we will never all agree on any engine and that's ok.
well a 240 HP 3900 is 20 HP shy but it weigh less so it pretty much equal and yes flow = hp NA or FI just go ask the top 3800 racer's they put the best flowing heads on they can get if some one like DH had really good ported heads with the boost he is running he would be making 1000 HP . BTW why cant you turbo the 3900 the same way you turbo the 3800 to the 400 HP
[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 05-28-2012).]
well a 240 HP 3900 is 20 HP shy but it weigh less so it pretty much equal and yes flow = hp NA or FI just go ask the top 3800 racer's they put the best flowing heads on they can get if some one like DH had really good ported heads with the boost he is running he would be making 1000 HP . BTW why cant you turbo the 3900 the same way you turbo the 3800 to the 400 HP
You need to really stop going on and on about how much some heads purportedly flow in stock form. There's a hell of a lot more to making power than just comparing some CFM numbers of a single part of an engine.
And you can turbo the 3900, but then it's not NA is it. Also, it's been done, in a Fiero, on this forum. So quit being argumentative just for the sake of being annoying.
well a 240 HP 3900 is 20 HP shy but it weigh less so it pretty much equal and yes flow = hp NA or FI just go ask the top 3800 racer's they put the best flowing heads on they can get if some one like DH had really good ported heads with the boost he is running he would be making 1000 HP . BTW why cant you turbo the 3900 the same way you turbo the 3800 to the 400 HP
LOL you make no sense. I swear you are arguing with yourself. You still dont get it and you are making these random comments. Too funny. Please continue.
Well the real reason i even did it is to show it's not so fun when some one is attacking your choices weather it be an engine choice or just an every day choice you sure dint like it now did you. so what if a guy has a 150 hp 305 if thats all he can afford to do oh well thats what he does and if he needs to Carrie a few parts and tools to keep it going no big deal at least it will be up and running back on the road for his fun so quit looking down your nose at others like they aren't as good as you . Enjoy life it is much to short and help the other Car enthusiast it is all fun
Btw what i was trying to say is that both engine can make 400 HP but it will take less boost with the 3900 due to better flowing heads and the = less chance of detonation due to lower intake temp and 1 other thing is the 3900 has aluminum heads this aids in detonation suppression due to they run a bit cooler but like i said lets all just help get the most fun out of the Hobie
[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 05-28-2012).]
Well the real reason i even did it is to show it's not so fun when some one is attacking your choices weather it be an engine choice or just an every day choice you sure dint like it now did you. so what if a guy has a 150 hp 305 if thats all he can afford to do oh well thats what he does and if he needs to Carrie a few parts and tools to keep it going no big deal at least it will be up and running back on the road for his fun so quit looking down your nose at others like they aren't as good as you . Enjoy life it is much to short and help the other Car enthusiast it is all fun
Btw what i was trying to say is that both engine can make 400 HP but it will take less boost with the 3900 due to better flowing heads and the = less chance of detonation due to lower intake temp and 1 other thing is the 3900 has aluminum heads this aids in detonation suppression due to they run a bit cooler but like i said lets all just help get the most fun out of the Hobie
Grammar and spelling go a very long way, if you're trying to make a point. We are enjoying life, thank you very much.
And I'm sorry, but if someone can afford to swap in a 150hp 305, they can probably afford to swap in something much better. Hell, you'd be better off just keeping a stock 2.8 and doing a couple of very simple mods, at that point. You'll get the same or better HP, better MPG, and it'll cost less. But some people are just too ignorant to look at those facts.
Grammar and spelling go a very long way, if you're trying to make a point. We are enjoying life, thank you very much.
And I'm sorry, but if someone can afford to swap in a 150hp 305, they can probably afford to swap in something much better. Hell, you'd be better off just keeping a stock 2.8 and doing a couple of very simple mods, at that point. You'll get the same or better HP, better MPG, and it'll cost less. But some people are just too ignorant to look at those facts.
No. That 150 HP 305 also has 250 ft lbs of torque. It would take a pretty stressed out 2.8 to get there and reliablity would come into question IMO. I still don't see why everyone thinks you're a dog if you can't run in the 12's or better. There is fast, and there is stupid fast. Not everyone wants stupid fast, not everyone wants a V6, not everyone wants a SC or a turbo. And some of us prefer torque over HP. Ask the 4.9 guys if they feel shorted. Yes, I can do much better than a 305. So what?
maybe the 305 is free and all He has is enough money to get a street dreams adapter who knows who cares and a 305 you can get a set of used votec heads for about $100 and slap them on and it will have enough head flow to make power then you can get a cam for cheap and on & on so it can be done a little at a time . I personally have my Owen ides on what engines i like just like you have your ideas on what engines you like and we both have are Owen set of reasons why . are either of are choices wrong or reasons bad no it just is our tast of what we like
[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 05-28-2012).]
I'd rather have my 4.9 then a 305, because it bolts right up to a Fiero transmission without adapter plates, is much lighter, more torque and HP, and runs via SFI. Better gas mileage as well. And it actually fits well into the engine bay with the factory water pump. Downside is there is very little aftermarket for the 4.9, however I'm not sure how much aftermarket parts would help a 305 to the point of replacing pretty much everything.
But of course, as others have said, it's your swap, your money, your life. Nothing I can do about it, nor would I want too...unless you want to pay me or ask for my opinion/advice.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-28-2012).]
