Got the right one, bolts up, and I dont see any clearance issues with the PP or ring gear buts its close!! I will tripple check it once its all bolted up. Does anyone know if there's supposed to be a pilot bearing in there? I dont see where it would go, and i cant seem to find a p/n
That looks better! And no, there is no pilot bearing, do not use one. Fiero's (and FWD cars for that matter, at least GM ones) don't have or use pilot bearings. My understanding is that pilot bearings were only used for RWD setups.
Page 2 ownage!
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-05-2012).]
That looks better! And no, there is no pilot bearing, do not use one. Fiero's (and FWD cars for that matter, at least GM ones) don't have or use pilot bearings. My understanding is that pilot bearings where only used for RWD setups.
This, I find it funny that Jeremy at Spec blames clutch failures on this design that doesn't use a pilot bearing.
Good to know, I wasn't sure. Guess they felt it wasnt necessary cause the PP rides much closer to the output shaft, but the designers weren't thinking of us guys who want to try and fit bigger PP's to abuse the hell out of their hard work with 300hp motors and left us with a cramped area to work with! I still cant verify if the PP or FW clears the bellhousing or not because I am waiting on FW bolts, the ones I have are way to short they only go in about 1 turn and no way in hell am I going to bolt it up to check for clearances like that. But I did put he whole clutch/ FW assembly on the transmission and pushed in the HTOB in spun it and no rubbing, good. My PP looks different than everyone elses PP (thats what she said) in this case hopefully mine is smaller.
I was running out of things to do until I drop the Duke (next week) so I cleaned up the F23 and bolted it up for fun. I still need to get the right bolts, forgot to grab them at the scrap yard.
Yea, you are. Also, I highly suggest that you measure the distance between the PP fingers and bellhousing face to see if you will need a spacer or not. I didn't use a spacer the first time and it blew up my HTOB. No fun.
Yea, you are. Also, I highly suggest that you measure the distance between the PP fingers and bellhousing face to see if you will need a spacer or not. I didn't use a spacer the first time and it blew up my HTOB. No fun.
Yeah I saw that in your thread, but at least it worked out for you cause you got a proper clutch now! I don't want want that thing to blow on a fresh clutch, but I don't want to bend the clutch fingers either. Is it possible to verify the spacing when its all bolted up? Just by feel, I think i pushed the HTOB 3/4 - 1" but its difficult to feel when holding a transmission.
EDIT: just got and idea... Put a clear tube on the hydraulic line of the trans and study how far the fluid goes up and down when you push on the HTOB. Than bolt it up and see where fluid level sits.
[This message has been edited by slideways (edited 05-09-2012).]
I hope this is one of those magic xray calipers because I cant seem to measure exactly how far the HTOB is compressed with my caliper when its bolted up
Put a straight edge across the pressure plate. If the fingers are below, measure down to get Y. Measure from the straight edge to the engine block where the trans mates. Subtract that from Y to get X. Put a straight edge across the trans mating surface and measure down to the HTOB to get Z. Email Spec, ask them how much the pressure plate will depress. Hopefully that number is greater less than X - Z. If its not you could exceed the limit of the HTOB without a pedal stop.
Put a straight edge across the pressure plate. If the fingers are below, measure down to get Y. Measure from the straight edge to the engine block where the trans mates. Subtract that from Y to get X. Put a straight edge across the trans mating surface and measure down to the HTOB to get Z. Email Spec, ask them how much the pressure plate will depress. Hopefully that number is greater than X - Z. If its not you could exceed the limit of the HTOB without a pedal stop.
Exactly. And believe me you don't want that HTOB popping after everything is bolted in and running.
Can Matt, Justin, Rodney, or Somebody make a F23 Kit already....
Dude, If I can make my own mounts in my parents garage I think you can too. Because of this fact however, I am un-able to make any more F23 mounts, I just don't have the equipment or the space right now in my life.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-10-2012).]
Put a straight edge across the pressure plate. If the fingers are below, measure down to get Y. Measure from the straight edge to the engine block where the trans mates. Subtract that from Y to get X. Put a straight edge across the trans mating surface and measure down to the HTOB to get Z. Email Spec, ask them how much the pressure plate will depress. Hopefully that number is greater less than X - Z. If its not you could exceed the limit of the HTOB without a pedal stop.
Gotcha, thanks for another helpful post. I suppose I should also measure how far the Fiero master cyl extends the HTOB compared to the required PP movement to determine the pedal stop.
Dude, If I can make my own mounts in my parents garage I think you can too. Because of this fact however, I am un-able to make any more F23 mounts, I just don't have the equipment or the space right now in my life.
2nd that. Just another rookie here hi-jacking dads garage. A kit would be nice but nothing beats the satisfaction of building and driving it yourself!
I'll be making trans mounts out of 3/16" (thickest my mig will do) but I am still waiting on wcf motor mounts before I can start. been busy the last few days opened up the 3800 replaced sc gasket, LIM gasket, oil pan, new water pump, plugs, egr block off plates. All the gaskets were in great shape, hopefully that's some indication on the the previous owner drove it.
- found a sweet deal on wheels 17" 42mm offset. 225/55/17 in the back and 205/50/17 up front. And yes I got rear coils. - exhaust is pieced out flowtech fbody muffler 3" in dual 2.5" out with 2 vibrant 12" resonators using stock trumpet tips. I want the exhaust a little quiter so I can hear that blower scream!
... There goes another paycheck. Just a tase of what to expect in the next week or two ill get some pics up soon.
Yea 3/16" should be fine. I went overkill and made all 4 mounts out of 1/4" steel. Had to use a 240V stick welder to weld the thick steel, but trust me it welded it. That thing could melt holes in 1/4" steel. Lol
Yea 3/16" should be fine. I went overkill and made all 4 mounts out of 1/4" steel. Had to use a 240V stick welder to weld the thick steel, but trust me it welded it. That thing could melt holes in 1/4" steel. Lol
Those mounts are hilarious, love it. I drifted here from the off-road community, built up a half assed mud runner and those mounts are up to par if not stronger than a lot of the trans mounts I've seen out there (Believe me a V8 with low-gear range puts ALOT of tourque on those mounts) Your mounts are suitable for something like this:
LMAO this is NOT my 'car' btw - COVER YOUR EYES EVERYONE
[This message has been edited by slideways (edited 05-12-2012).]
Been really busy the last few weeks and not so busy on the car. Haven't got a chance to sign on here in a while but I'm still picking away at it. I'm having trouble removing the CV's from the trans, havn't gone crazy but I cannot pull them out by hand or small pry bar, can anyone tell me if there's a trick to this or should I pull out the big pry bar and get violent?
Above is the fiero harness next to the L67 harness
[This message has been edited by slideways (edited 06-01-2012).]
In the last 12 hours: -stripped/painted cradle -built a cradle - cradle for convenience sake -put the F23 in position, took some measurement for the mounts - I'll be modifying the WCF trans mounts
[This message has been edited by slideways (edited 06-07-2012).]
Front trans mount complete.... not pretty but it should hold. Ended up cutting out the poly bushing from the WCF trans mount I had and started from scratch. A little disappointed with WCF hardware; grade 5 3/8" bolts?? c'mon now. With the F-23 in position the motor mount did not line up, it was to far right/rear, the right CV was fully compressed and the left side stretched, I suspect the F-23 is offset slightly different than the fiero tranny's. I welded a plate to the top of the mount, beefed up the underside and drilled new holes.
Might just be the pictures but it looks like you are too high and too far to the passenger side.
I hope its just the pictures... It was still supported by the shop crane in those pics, it sunk 1/2" - 3/4" when lowered there's only half inch or so of clearance from trans to cradle. Axles are centered as far as I can see and cannot over stretch / compress.
finished the rear mount today
[This message has been edited by slideways (edited 06-08-2012).]
Oil pan should be flush with the bottom of the cradle. Mine is fuzz lower. You might want to bolt the cradle up and do a test fit before you get too carried away.
Oil pan should be flush with the bottom of the cradle. Mine is fuzz lower. You might want to bolt the cradle up and do a test fit before you get too carried away.
My oil pan is 1/4-1/8" higher then the bottom of the cradle, nothing that'll hurt.
Thank you guys for spotting that, it does need to come down a touch. The lowest point on oil pan sits 3/4" higher than bottom of the cradle. I should be able to drop it 1/2" without re-doing any of the mounts. The rear trans mount I am happy with as the trans clears the frame by 3/4" but the front mount could come down a touch and the motor mount even more so. Since I'm using the stock alternator mount I will need to keep it as low as possible, but I'd be asking for trouble to have the oil pan as the lowest part of the car.
A 1/4" wouldn't have mattered, it still would have hit. It's the longer L26 intake+throttle body adapter+L67 TB.
And sorry to tell you slideways, but unless you go really low on the mounting (not really possible with the F23), you are going to have to cut a notch in the decklid for the alternator if you use the stock mounting.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 06-09-2012).]
And sorry to tell you slideways, but unless you go really low on the mounting (not really possible with the F23), you are going to have to cut a notch in the decklid for the alternator if you use the stock mounting.
Thanks for the heads up, I'm prepared to hack up whatever necessary to fit this motor in there.
Got it sitting much lower now, oil pan is level with the bottom of cradle. Assembled the WCF coil rear kit, and so far I don't like the looks. Main reason, it uses a 7" spring, this is going to limit total travel to only about 3" but the increased spring rate (350lb's) should kill the body roll. I have seen a few other coilovers people have built using a 10 - 12" springs, that seems more appropriate. At least there is room to upgrade to a 10" if it handles like a soapbox.
I decided to use a different approach for front trans mount, there was a number of things I didn't like about it. The front mount will be under compression when accel, feels better knowing the trans will push onto the mount itself, and not as much the bolts. Started from scratch on the motor mount, I was originally using the WCF motor mount and stock bracket but this could not be modified to get the engine sitting lower, the stock bracket felt pretty flimsy anyway. This motor isnt going anywhere now.
A 1/4" wouldn't have mattered, it still would have hit. It's the longer L26 intake+throttle body adapter+L67 TB.
And sorry to tell you slideways, but unless you go really low on the mounting (not really possible with the F23), you are going to have to cut a notch in the decklid for the alternator if you use the stock mounting.
The mounts look good! However, just FYI, the front mount does not have compression when when acceleration, the rear mount does. The front mount takes the hit from de-acceleration.
And I wouldn't use that spring. It's going to be stiff as HELL. I have a 12" 350lb coil overs, and they are fairly stiff...
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 06-14-2012).]
Originally posted by mattwa: The mounts look good! However, just FYI, the front mount does not have compression when when acceleration, the rear mount does. The front mount takes the hit from de-acceleration.
I'll admit, I just got out the cordless drill, put it next to the wheels and held it back... Now I believe you. But im not changing the mounts agian, if I spin the motor from a hard clutch bomb, too bad for me. This should hold, don't think I mentioned yet, but I'll have 2 dogbones at the top as well
I'll admit, I just got out the cordless drill, put it next to the wheels and held it back... Now I believe you. But im not changing the mounts agian, if I spin the motor from a hard clutch bomb, too bad for me. This should hold, don't think I mentioned yet, but I'll have 2 dogbones at the top as well
Two things. One, I didn't mean that you needed to change your mounts because of that fact. They will work just fine. Second, two dog bones? Where? If you do like the factory GP and Regals do that is not a good idea, the sheet metal of the trunk and or firewall wasn't made for those forces. It would be a much better idea to make a second engine mount. Just a suggestion. I have four lower mounts and a "dog bone" (torque strut) mounted from the engine to the cradle.
Two things. One, I didn't mean that you needed to change your mounts because of that fact. They will work just fine. Second, two dog bones? Where? If you do like the factory GP and Regals do that is not a good idea, the sheet metal of the trunk and or firewall wasn't made for those forces. It would be a much better idea to make a second engine mount. Just a suggestion. I have four lower mounts and a "dog bone" (torque strut) mounted from the engine to the cradle.
You guessed it.. I was planning to beef up the firewall with a sheet of aluminum checker plate and built a front tourqe arm off that, also use the right shock mount/ alternator bracket for the second arm.. And thanks for the suggestion, I hadnt put much thought into it but I do agree a dogbone right to the cradle would be best.
Clutch needed a spacer. The PP I have requires 3/8" (.375") to fully disengage. From what I measured, the PP fingers push in the HTOB .380" without a spacer. 0.005" is not enough to compensate for clutch break in / clutch wear and doesnt utilize the .900" or so of travel the HTOB has. I went with a .260" "bearing cap" from SPEC this should give me more than enough range.
The PP and FW fit perfectly in the bellhousing, no grinding required!
Test fit the engine/trans the decklid does close, but its touching around the alternator/ TB, I'll need to do some trimming
I will replace the batteries in my camera next time too...
