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So I DIS'd my Fiero today by sardonyx247
Started on: 04-29-2012 05:43 AM
Replies: 27 (1500 views)
Last post by: Dodgerunner on 09-02-2013 10:55 PM
sardonyx247
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Report this Post04-29-2012 05:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I decided to add DIS to my GT. I took alot of pics doing it too

First before pics







Since I allready have a 3.4L I have the provision for a crank sensor, the open hole in the pic.



I used the distributor plug from the 3.4L too, here it is taken apart so I could clean it well.



After the distributor and coil removed.



Then I got the old 3.4L bracket.





After alot of cutting and modding I got this.







I wanted to keep the engine lift bracket, so I had to cut off one of the coil mounting points, and to fit I needed a couple of washers between the two brackets. I decided it would be a PITA to try to get the washers in so I welded them to the bracket.





Both brackets installed on a mockup engine.



The DIS coils and ICM.



To flip the ICM around on the mounting bracket I had to drill a new hole to fit the tab on the ICM, it can been seen by the right mounting peg. Don't forget the thermal transfer paste.



The plugs needed for the new ICM. I first used the plugs and wires from the 3.4L but found later that the plugs from a 3.1L have the sheilded cable and thicker wires.







The crank sensor and plug from the 3.4L



I also moddified the stock heat sheild so it would protect the gauge plug from the heat and to keep the heat away from the ICM. Installed look.



Now I can get rid of the MSD box, not that I ever had a problem with it, but DIS is better.



Now the after pics.








For wireing you go color to color for the distributor plug, power is from the coil power wire, ground is to the block, and the crank sensor plugs straight into the ICM.
The ECM code does need to be moddified, since I am not running close to stock code I can't help you there.
But I do now have a complete understanding of the spark code for my ECM trying to get it right, so far, that I can tell, I am the first useing my code to do it the right way and not fudge the code to fake it. It took a few days but I got it.

Now on to the results.
This is frickin' awesome, it runs nice and smooth, and pulls all the way to redline.
So the whole thing that the Fiero intake doesn't flow enough, is really the stock coil.
The coils have 3 times the dwell time and 3 times the amount of time to cool. Instead of reving to 6k, to the coils it is like only reving to 2k, much happier coils and me.
I used a timing light to verify my timing is just as it was before the change. I will do more driving/testing and see how the long term is. But right now I am extreamly pleased with the results. I just thought I would share.

------------------
"DRIVE IT LIKE A FIERO"
'84 Fiero, engine to be determined
'87Blue GT 3.4L Swap Completed!!!!!!!! Boosted!!!!!!!
^^^^ Now in the Construction Zone^^^^
Las Vegas Fiero Club Parts/Sales/Service/Club
Fiero Road Club Of Northern Nevada

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Fierobsessed
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Report this Post04-29-2012 07:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FierobsessedClick Here to Email FierobsessedSend a Private Message to FierobsessedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The difference in the code for DIS and Distributor? 60 degrees of timing. That is all.

DIS and Distributors both fire every 120 degrees of crank rotation. DIS needs the ECM to tell it when to fire with an additional 60 degree offset. I haven't tried to run it on a 7170 yet, but I have a feeling it would work just fine with that tweak.

If you have a 7730, it makes life pretty simple, as there are plenty of factory applications with that setup.
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Pete Matos
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Report this Post04-29-2012 08:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Pete MatosSend a Private Message to Pete MatosEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nice work man, it sure looks nice and I am quite sure it will be more reliable and probably run better. How do you find the motor after this mod? Does it run differently, idle differently, does it rev any better etc..... peace


Pete

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ConvictedRedneck
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Report this Post04-29-2012 06:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ConvictedRedneckClick Here to Email ConvictedRedneckSend a Private Message to ConvictedRedneckEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nice work! No more fried ICM's!
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sardonyx247
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Report this Post04-29-2012 07:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Pete Matos:

Nice work man, it sure looks nice and I am quite sure it will be more reliable and probably run better. How do you find the motor after this mod? Does it run differently, idle differently, does it rev any better etc..... peace


Pete


As I said above it runs nice and smooth and pulls all the way to redline. I have only been driving it for a day, but I will not be going back to a distributor.


 
quote
Originally posted by ConvictedRedneck:

Nice work! No more fried ICM's!


My thoughts too. Don't get me wrong I still have a spare DIS ICM in my trunk.

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Blacktree
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Report this Post04-30-2012 04:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fierobsessed:

The difference in the code for DIS and Distributor? 60 degrees of timing. That is all.

DIS and Distributors both fire every 120 degrees of crank rotation. DIS needs the ECM to tell it when to fire with an additional 60 degree offset. I haven't tried to run it on a 7170 yet, but I have a feeling it would work just fine with that tweak.

If you have a 7730, it makes life pretty simple, as there are plenty of factory applications with that setup.


Wow, really? I wish I knew that before! So where do you add in the 60-degree timing offset (i.e. which parameter)?

This info is of particular use to me, since neither my OBD-1 scanner nor my laptop will "talk" to my 7730 ECM using a DIS code mask ($A1), but will if I use the distributer code mask ($88). If I can tweak the $88 code to run DIS, I'll be set!
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Fierobsessed
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Report this Post04-30-2012 06:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierobsessedClick Here to Email FierobsessedSend a Private Message to FierobsessedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Initial Spark advance. If you have $88 ATTA code, which is a DIS code for FWD's, you can see that the initial spark advance is set to 59.77 deg. In the F bod code $88 AZTY, its 9.84.

You should probably stick to the F body code, and just fix the initial spark advance and go from there since you have an iron headed engine, and the DIS codes are all for aluminum headed engines.

If you have any particular BIN requests, I carry a pretty sickening cache of Stock bin files.
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Report this Post04-30-2012 06:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierobsessedClick Here to Email FierobsessedSend a Private Message to FierobsessedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Fierobsessed

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It isn't like it's hard to test the theory

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outlawfiero17
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Report this Post04-30-2012 06:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for outlawfiero17Click Here to Email outlawfiero17Send a Private Message to outlawfiero17Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Could you possibly post a few mor pics on how you modified the coil bracket? I ended up mounting mine on the trunk wall and leaving a big "hole" where the dist used to be.
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Blacktree
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Report this Post04-30-2012 09:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fierobsessed:

Initial Spark advance. If you have $88 ATTA code, which is a DIS code for FWD's, you can see that the initial spark advance is set to 59.77 deg. In the F bod code $88 AZTY, its 9.84.

Cool, thanks.
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sardonyx247
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Report this Post05-02-2012 01:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by outlawfiero17:

Could you possibly post a few mor pics on how you modified the coil bracket? I ended up mounting mine on the trunk wall and leaving a big "hole" where the dist used to be.


Ask and ye' shall receive
Here are the other pics I had.


The bracket before cutting.




Here is after I cut it down at first, I cut more off later to clear the Y-pipe.






This is after I cut the coner off for clearance.




More pics of it on the mock up eingine, WITH the engine lift bracket.





Thats all I have of the bracket. I had to cut alot, test fit, cut a lot, test fit, etc..and that's what I came up with.
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Report this Post05-14-2012 03:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for outlawfiero17Click Here to Email outlawfiero17Send a Private Message to outlawfiero17Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the pics. Hope you done mind if i follow your install. I got lazt and mounted mine on the trunk and its in the way of another idea i have.
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Blacktree
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Report this Post05-14-2012 09:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fierobsessed: Initial Spark advance. If you have $88 ATTA code, which is a DIS code for FWD's, you can see that the initial spark advance is set to 59.77 deg. In the F bod code $88 AZTY, its 9.84.

OK, this didn't work too well for me. I changed the initial spark advance on my old $88 tune like you described, and the results were not too great. The idle is kinda weird (slowly fluctuates), and the engine pings like mad under load. Also, the AFR is all over the place. I'm going to try fiddling with a few things, to see if I can improve the situation.

Keep in mind this is a bin file that I was using on this engine before changing to DIS. And it ran just fine back then. The only thing I changed was the initial spark advance.
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mattwa
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Report this Post05-14-2012 09:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Glad you got it working for you. Looks familiar minus turbo...
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Report this Post05-14-2012 10:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chetw77cruiserSend a Private Message to chetw77cruiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

OK, this didn't work too well for me. I changed the initial spark advance on my old $88 tune like you described, and the results were not too great. The idle is kinda weird (slowly fluctuates), and the engine pings like mad under load. Also, the AFR is all over the place. I'm going to try fiddling with a few things, to see if I can improve the situation.

Keep in mind this is a bin file that I was using on this engine before changing to DIS. And it ran just fine back then. The only thing I changed was the initial spark advance.


There are a couple other settings that need changed.

reference angle +60
max advance to ref -10
max advance to tdc +50
min retard to ref -70
max retard to tdc -10

Hope this helps.

Keep tuning my friends.

Chet W.
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sardonyx247
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Report this Post05-15-2012 04:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by outlawfiero17:

Thanks for the pics. Hope you done mind if i follow your install.


Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery - Charles Caleb Colton (1780–1832)
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Blacktree
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Report this Post05-17-2012 10:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by chetw77cruiser:


There are a couple other settings that need changed.

reference angle +60
max advance to ref -10
max advance to tdc +50
min retard to ref -70
max retard to tdc -10


Looks like in order to change those settings, I'll need a hex editor (and learn how to use it)... or a custom bin definition. Because with my generic $88 bin definition file, those parameters are not showing up.
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chetw77cruiser
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Report this Post05-17-2012 06:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chetw77cruiserSend a Private Message to chetw77cruiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I should be able to change the needed items for you.

PM sent.

[This message has been edited by chetw77cruiser (edited 05-17-2012).]

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Report this Post05-17-2012 08:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jdvClick Here to Email jdvSend a Private Message to jdvEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When I ran sajup v4 on my 3500 I used these settings they might work but I have not looked at $88 to compare.The car ran well but I wanted to go with another set up $12.
Set the "Number of Cylinders" from 0 to 192
Set the "SPARK ADV Initial" from 6.0 to 60
Set the "SPARK ADV Max" from 41.84 to -10
Set the "SPARK RET, Max for Knock" from -3.87 to -70
Set the "Cylinder Volume" from 713 to 515.69 (for the 3.1)
Set the "ERROR QUAL 41, Cylinder Select" from 0 to 08
Left the "Injector Flow Rate" at 22.08
Set the "VSS, Vehicle Speed Sensor Pulses" to the correct value for my setup (27106)
Set the "MANUAL OPTION" to 1
This is the thread on it
http://www.v6z24.com/jbodyf...r-z24-d-t111745.html
If you changed the settings in the distributor bin you might not have changed them all to work right. Hook up tunerpro and see what it is doing. If you don't have an aldl cable this is a cheap set up that works on usb . http://www.thirdgen.org/tec...l-usb-converter.html

[This message has been edited by jdv (edited 05-17-2012).]

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Report this Post06-11-2012 09:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jdvClick Here to Email jdvSend a Private Message to jdvEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
bump to get it rollen
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One wicked svt
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Report this Post06-13-2012 08:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for One wicked svtClick Here to Email One wicked svtSend a Private Message to One wicked svtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nice work but all of this reading was truly Chinese to me!

How you guys tune it?
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Report this Post06-13-2012 01:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chetw77cruiserSend a Private Message to chetw77cruiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I did get Blacktree going using his modified $88 code mask set for DIS. The $88 mask was used in both distributor and DIS systems in both FWD and RWD applications. It is also able to use the stock Fiero egr control valve/solenoid. Just need to tie into pin E9 and set the right variables in the code. The same applies to the $A1 code mask. This way an adapter for the digital EGR is not needed.

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Report this Post06-13-2012 04:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for no2pencilClick Here to Email no2pencilSend a Private Message to no2pencilEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Very nice! We first attempted to do this with my 3.4L, but didn't know enough about the project to pull it off. I'll have to show this to my friend
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Blacktree
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Report this Post06-14-2012 12:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by chetw77cruiser: I did get Blacktree going using his modified $88 code mask set for DIS.

Yes, the "DIS mod" for my $88 tune works great. That helped me out a lot, because the $A1 tune caused the idle to fluctuate sometimes. Plus, for some reason my scanner and laptop were not able to interface with it. I have no such problems with the $88 tune.

Thanks, Chet.
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retroman
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Report this Post09-01-2013 02:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for retromanClick Here to Email retromanSend a Private Message to retromanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So, you didn't have to use a cam sensor?? I am putting in a 3.4 with DIS and 7730 ECM, and a buddy was helping me out with the project yesterday. He's trying to tell me that I need a cam sensor and two crank sensors (one on the balancer and one mid-block) to make it work. I got my harness and ECM from phonedawgz last year, and there is no plug on it for a cam sensor and only one for crank. Since he makes these things all the time, I'm sure the chances of screwing it up are pretty slim and he ensures to get each customers wants and needs in writing. Just a little puzzled on why the F-body needs 3 and it seems that Fieros are running with one. Due to a 5 hour time difference and the weekend, I haven't been able to reach phonedawgz yet for clarification, so if anyone can chime in, I would very much appreciate it. Thanks.
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Blacktree
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Report this Post09-01-2013 04:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The 7730 ECM only uses one crank position sensor, and no cam sensor. Your friend may be confusing it with the F-Body ECM.
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retroman
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Report this Post09-01-2013 06:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for retromanClick Here to Email retromanSend a Private Message to retromanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

The 7730 ECM only uses one crank position sensor, and no cam sensor. Your friend may be confusing it with the F-Body ECM.


Thanks. There was some confusion on my part as well since I assumed the 7730 ECM was OEM in the F-body. We had also referenced an F-body manual to assist with the swap.
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Dodgerunner
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Report this Post09-02-2013 10:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DodgerunnerClick Here to visit Dodgerunner's HomePageClick Here to Email DodgerunnerSend a Private Message to DodgerunnerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So this was on your 87Gt?
Are you using the 87 ECM with your modified bin?

I was going to do the 7730 ecm but might try it with my 85 ecm is that is the case instead of rewiring for the 7730.
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