I decided to add DIS to my GT. I took alot of pics doing it too
First before pics
Since I allready have a 3.4L I have the provision for a crank sensor, the open hole in the pic.
I used the distributor plug from the 3.4L too, here it is taken apart so I could clean it well.
After the distributor and coil removed.
Then I got the old 3.4L bracket.
After alot of cutting and modding I got this.
I wanted to keep the engine lift bracket, so I had to cut off one of the coil mounting points, and to fit I needed a couple of washers between the two brackets. I decided it would be a PITA to try to get the washers in so I welded them to the bracket.
Both brackets installed on a mockup engine.
The DIS coils and ICM.
To flip the ICM around on the mounting bracket I had to drill a new hole to fit the tab on the ICM, it can been seen by the right mounting peg. Don't forget the thermal transfer paste.
The plugs needed for the new ICM. I first used the plugs and wires from the 3.4L but found later that the plugs from a 3.1L have the sheilded cable and thicker wires.
The crank sensor and plug from the 3.4L
I also moddified the stock heat sheild so it would protect the gauge plug from the heat and to keep the heat away from the ICM. Installed look.
Now I can get rid of the MSD box, not that I ever had a problem with it, but DIS is better.
Now the after pics.
For wireing you go color to color for the distributor plug, power is from the coil power wire, ground is to the block, and the crank sensor plugs straight into the ICM. The ECM code does need to be moddified, since I am not running close to stock code I can't help you there. But I do now have a complete understanding of the spark code for my ECM trying to get it right, so far, that I can tell, I am the first useing my code to do it the right way and not fudge the code to fake it. It took a few days but I got it.
Now on to the results. This is frickin' awesome, it runs nice and smooth, and pulls all the way to redline. So the whole thing that the Fiero intake doesn't flow enough, is really the stock coil. The coils have 3 times the dwell time and 3 times the amount of time to cool. Instead of reving to 6k, to the coils it is like only reving to 2k, much happier coils and me. I used a timing light to verify my timing is just as it was before the change. I will do more driving/testing and see how the long term is. But right now I am extreamly pleased with the results. I just thought I would share.
The difference in the code for DIS and Distributor? 60 degrees of timing. That is all.
DIS and Distributors both fire every 120 degrees of crank rotation. DIS needs the ECM to tell it when to fire with an additional 60 degree offset. I haven't tried to run it on a 7170 yet, but I have a feeling it would work just fine with that tweak.
If you have a 7730, it makes life pretty simple, as there are plenty of factory applications with that setup.
Nice work man, it sure looks nice and I am quite sure it will be more reliable and probably run better. How do you find the motor after this mod? Does it run differently, idle differently, does it rev any better etc..... peace
Nice work man, it sure looks nice and I am quite sure it will be more reliable and probably run better. How do you find the motor after this mod? Does it run differently, idle differently, does it rev any better etc..... peace
Pete
As I said above it runs nice and smooth and pulls all the way to redline. I have only been driving it for a day, but I will not be going back to a distributor.
quote
Originally posted by ConvictedRedneck:
Nice work! No more fried ICM's!
My thoughts too. Don't get me wrong I still have a spare DIS ICM in my trunk.
The difference in the code for DIS and Distributor? 60 degrees of timing. That is all.
DIS and Distributors both fire every 120 degrees of crank rotation. DIS needs the ECM to tell it when to fire with an additional 60 degree offset. I haven't tried to run it on a 7170 yet, but I have a feeling it would work just fine with that tweak.
If you have a 7730, it makes life pretty simple, as there are plenty of factory applications with that setup.
Wow, really? I wish I knew that before! So where do you add in the 60-degree timing offset (i.e. which parameter)?
This info is of particular use to me, since neither my OBD-1 scanner nor my laptop will "talk" to my 7730 ECM using a DIS code mask ($A1), but will if I use the distributer code mask ($88). If I can tweak the $88 code to run DIS, I'll be set!
Initial Spark advance. If you have $88 ATTA code, which is a DIS code for FWD's, you can see that the initial spark advance is set to 59.77 deg. In the F bod code $88 AZTY, its 9.84.
You should probably stick to the F body code, and just fix the initial spark advance and go from there since you have an iron headed engine, and the DIS codes are all for aluminum headed engines.
If you have any particular BIN requests, I carry a pretty sickening cache of Stock bin files.
Could you possibly post a few mor pics on how you modified the coil bracket? I ended up mounting mine on the trunk wall and leaving a big "hole" where the dist used to be.
Initial Spark advance. If you have $88 ATTA code, which is a DIS code for FWD's, you can see that the initial spark advance is set to 59.77 deg. In the F bod code $88 AZTY, its 9.84.
Could you possibly post a few mor pics on how you modified the coil bracket? I ended up mounting mine on the trunk wall and leaving a big "hole" where the dist used to be.
Ask and ye' shall receive Here are the other pics I had.
The bracket before cutting.
Here is after I cut it down at first, I cut more off later to clear the Y-pipe.
This is after I cut the coner off for clearance.
More pics of it on the mock up eingine, WITH the engine lift bracket.
Thats all I have of the bracket. I had to cut alot, test fit, cut a lot, test fit, etc..and that's what I came up with.
Originally posted by Fierobsessed: Initial Spark advance. If you have $88 ATTA code, which is a DIS code for FWD's, you can see that the initial spark advance is set to 59.77 deg. In the F bod code $88 AZTY, its 9.84.
OK, this didn't work too well for me. I changed the initial spark advance on my old $88 tune like you described, and the results were not too great. The idle is kinda weird (slowly fluctuates), and the engine pings like mad under load. Also, the AFR is all over the place. I'm going to try fiddling with a few things, to see if I can improve the situation.
Keep in mind this is a bin file that I was using on this engine before changing to DIS. And it ran just fine back then. The only thing I changed was the initial spark advance.
OK, this didn't work too well for me. I changed the initial spark advance on my old $88 tune like you described, and the results were not too great. The idle is kinda weird (slowly fluctuates), and the engine pings like mad under load. Also, the AFR is all over the place. I'm going to try fiddling with a few things, to see if I can improve the situation.
Keep in mind this is a bin file that I was using on this engine before changing to DIS. And it ran just fine back then. The only thing I changed was the initial spark advance.
There are a couple other settings that need changed.
reference angle +60 max advance to ref -10 max advance to tdc +50 min retard to ref -70 max retard to tdc -10
There are a couple other settings that need changed.
reference angle +60 max advance to ref -10 max advance to tdc +50 min retard to ref -70 max retard to tdc -10
Looks like in order to change those settings, I'll need a hex editor (and learn how to use it)... or a custom bin definition. Because with my generic $88 bin definition file, those parameters are not showing up.
When I ran sajup v4 on my 3500 I used these settings they might work but I have not looked at $88 to compare.The car ran well but I wanted to go with another set up $12. Set the "Number of Cylinders" from 0 to 192 Set the "SPARK ADV Initial" from 6.0 to 60 Set the "SPARK ADV Max" from 41.84 to -10 Set the "SPARK RET, Max for Knock" from -3.87 to -70 Set the "Cylinder Volume" from 713 to 515.69 (for the 3.1) Set the "ERROR QUAL 41, Cylinder Select" from 0 to 08 Left the "Injector Flow Rate" at 22.08 Set the "VSS, Vehicle Speed Sensor Pulses" to the correct value for my setup (27106) Set the "MANUAL OPTION" to 1 This is the thread on it http://www.v6z24.com/jbodyf...r-z24-d-t111745.html If you changed the settings in the distributor bin you might not have changed them all to work right. Hook up tunerpro and see what it is doing. If you don't have an aldl cable this is a cheap set up that works on usb . http://www.thirdgen.org/tec...l-usb-converter.html
[This message has been edited by jdv (edited 05-17-2012).]
I did get Blacktree going using his modified $88 code mask set for DIS. The $88 mask was used in both distributor and DIS systems in both FWD and RWD applications. It is also able to use the stock Fiero egr control valve/solenoid. Just need to tie into pin E9 and set the right variables in the code. The same applies to the $A1 code mask. This way an adapter for the digital EGR is not needed.
Originally posted by chetw77cruiser: I did get Blacktree going using his modified $88 code mask set for DIS.
Yes, the "DIS mod" for my $88 tune works great. That helped me out a lot, because the $A1 tune caused the idle to fluctuate sometimes. Plus, for some reason my scanner and laptop were not able to interface with it. I have no such problems with the $88 tune.
So, you didn't have to use a cam sensor?? I am putting in a 3.4 with DIS and 7730 ECM, and a buddy was helping me out with the project yesterday. He's trying to tell me that I need a cam sensor and two crank sensors (one on the balancer and one mid-block) to make it work. I got my harness and ECM from phonedawgz last year, and there is no plug on it for a cam sensor and only one for crank. Since he makes these things all the time, I'm sure the chances of screwing it up are pretty slim and he ensures to get each customers wants and needs in writing. Just a little puzzled on why the F-body needs 3 and it seems that Fieros are running with one. Due to a 5 hour time difference and the weekend, I haven't been able to reach phonedawgz yet for clarification, so if anyone can chime in, I would very much appreciate it. Thanks.
The 7730 ECM only uses one crank position sensor, and no cam sensor. Your friend may be confusing it with the F-Body ECM.
Thanks. There was some confusion on my part as well since I assumed the 7730 ECM was OEM in the F-body. We had also referenced an F-body manual to assist with the swap.
