i can not get my 3400 swap to start.. i'm not getting any spark and my check engine light does not come on with the key on but i do have power at pins 19 and 20 of the blue connector on the ecu and i also double checked all my grounds and i do get a fuel prime when i turn the key on.. sinninster reprogrammed my ecu and phonedawgz built my wire harness.. does anyone have any insight to what the problem may be??
I would focus on the check engine light first. I think it's a brown and white wire on the c203, center console connector. It's been a while though. when you find the right one you can ground it out and get the light to light up. This may tell you if the pcm has a problem. Or rent, buy or borrow a scanner just to see if it will even connect.
I would focus on the check engine light first. I think it's a brown and white wire on the c203, center console connector. It's been a while though. when you find the right one you can ground it out and get the light to light up. This may tell you if the pcm has a problem. Or rent, buy or borrow a scanner just to see if it will even connect.
I put ground on the wire for the light right at the pcm and the light comes on..I didn't think about renting a scan tool but I'm not even sure its worth the trouble.. I have an email sent to Darth about this because I'm thinking its a problem with the pcm.. and you are right it is a brown wire with a white tracer for the MIL
Not all PCMs give you a SES light key on engine off.
Excluding the ones that don't, whichever they may be, generally with OBD I when the key is turned on the engine light flashes once and stays on. If it doesn't flash there is a problem, if it doesn't stay on with the key on engine off after flashing, there is a problem and usually the cooling fan will come on. Not sure when GM changed that though I'd expect 03 programming to do things differently.
All the repair info I have been reading said that the engine should fire without the pcm if the 7x crank sensor and the ICM are good.. so I'm gonna go check that sensor.. I'm also finding conflicting information on the 2 pin power connector some diagrams say power is on pin A and ground on B and others say the opposite? So which one is it?
update.. the 7x crank sensor was bad.. I replace the sensor and now i have good spark but the car will only run if i spray fuel into the intake sooo now a have a new problem.. No fuel.. i have double checked all the wiring,i have 12 volts at the injectors, i'm getting fuel to the fuel rail the fuel pump runs like it should so now what?guess i gotta find a noid light to check for injector pulse and check fuel pressure.. any other ideas??
Before going to the expense of a noid light first start with checking a few things.
Is the PCM fuse good? The fuse on the orange wire that is connected to the power distribution block.
Do you have a wire that bridges the two posts of the power distribution posts? The plastic of the power distribution block do not bridge voltage between the two. One of the stock cables on the 2.8 harness had a connector that did the job of bridging the two connectors. You might have to add a wire that wraps between the two connectors.
Does the fuel pump relay (and fuel pump) click on and then off two seconds later (prime) when you first turn the key to on? (no cranking) It should. No SES light and no fuel pump relay would tend to indicate the PCM is either not getting power, or is not working.
If the fuel pump relay does prime as above, then just bump the starter. Do not crank the engine beyond just a bump. Now did the fuel pump relay click on again for two seconds and then click off again? It should. If it passes the above test but does not pass this on that would indicate that the PCM is not getting ignition pulses to it.
Before going to the expense of a noid light first start with checking a few things.
Is the PCM fuse good? The fuse on the orange wire that is connected to the power distribution block.
Do you have a wire that bridges the two posts of the power distribution posts? The plastic of the power distribution block do not bridge voltage between the two. One of the stock cables on the 2.8 harness had a connector that did the job of bridging the two connectors. You might have to add a wire that wraps between the two connectors.
Does the fuel pump relay (and fuel pump) click on and then off two seconds later (prime) when you first turn the key to on? (no cranking) It should. No SES light and no fuel pump relay would tend to indicate the PCM is either not getting power, or is not working.
If the fuel pump relay does prime as above, then just bump the starter. Do not crank the engine beyond just a bump. Now did the fuel pump relay click on again for two seconds and then click off again? It should. If it passes the above test but does not pass this on that would indicate that the PCM is not getting ignition pulses to it.
The fuel pump runs as it should.. 2 second prime when I turn the key on and pump runs for 2 seconds after cranking. Post is jumped at the power distribution block. I have triple checked all fuses including the 2 by the c500. I have even gone as far to check for all the 5v reference outputs at the pcm which I have..so it seems that the pcm is powering on and working..
I've had this problem on many,many used engines...I've come to the point of not trusting them at all and use the original injectors from the engine being replaced or new ones.
I've had this problem on many,many used engines...I've come to the point of not trusting them at all and use the original injectors from the engine being replaced or new ones.
I bought a complete wrecked grand am for this swap and it ran great before I pulled the engine..I just find it hard to believe that all 6 injectors are totally blocked and not spraying any fuel..if I was even getting a little popping then I could understand but I get nothing..
Rather than buying a noid light I would recommend purchasing a powered logic probe from Harbor Freight.
Putting the probe on the PCM side of the injector, you should see the probe quickly switch from its +12v reading to showing ground and then back again. The powered probe is less expensive than the noid lights, when checking injectors gives you a better indication of what is happening, and can also be used for other uses.
You can also check with a standard volt meter on the PCM side of the injectors. First measure the voltage on the fused +12v side (pink wire) of the injectors during cranking. Then measure the PCM side. If during cranking the PCM side shows about 4v less than the pink side, then your PCM is firing the injectors.
You can also usually hear the injectors click when they are working properly.
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 04-12-2012).]
It should. At least you should see the drop in voltage during cranking. If it's display can switch fast enough you should be able to see the injector pulses.
Note - I forgot to say - you need to do the tests with the injector plugged in. Use a long pin to probe past the seal on the rear of the injector plug. You could also put the pin in past the seal on the ICM to Engine Harness connector.
the power probe didn't work to read an injector pulse i did however hook up a fuel pressure guage and manually supply a ground signal to each injector and each one caused a drop in fuel pressure and i could actually hear the injector spraying fuel so i know that they are not clogged... the only test left would be to check for continuity between the pcm and injector harness connector but i really dont think that is the problem..
Pcm is being sent back to sinister today for Ryan can check to see what the problem may be..he is going to install it in a known running car to see if it works and if not he is going to try a different program in it..he also said that I may have damaged the injector drivers in the pcm by supplying ground to the injectors with the pcm still plugged in..I sure hope not!! Thanks for everyone's help with this it is very much appreciated ..
86 Toy please let me know what comes of this. We may be having the same problem. I am converting my 3400 from obd1 to obd2 using bothe Phonedawgz and Sinister as well. My car ran perfect before the conversion , but now will not start at all. My pcm is from an '02 grand am. I will keep you posted if I discover anything on mine. P.S. I just saw that you have been following my thread. Cheers!
[This message has been edited by Bridgetown (edited 04-15-2012).]
Ryan is pretty sure he the issue solved..here is part of the message he emailed me earlier.. " While I was waiting on the laptop battery to recharge,I did some thinking. I recalled that I programmed a PCM for a guy with a Fiero swap that was running an 02 Grand Am 3400 and 4T45-E. I know he got that swap running AFTER he had some VATS issues so I searched back thru the emails we exchanged and found out what happened in his case. There were 2 problems,1 on his end and 1 on my end. On my end,it was a simple wrong number inputted for VATS type in the programming (I made the same mistake for you and the other guy who is having problems now). On that guy’s end,he didn’t have IGN B+ power connected to a 2 nd spot on the 3400 PCM that needed it: pin C2-24. 3400’s (and newer 3100 applications) require a 2 nd IGN B+ key-on power signal. If it isn’t hooked up,the check engine light won’t come on and the engine won’t be allowed to start because the PCM is still in a “semi-sleep” mode."
Thank you very much Ryan for the hard work to figure this issue out!!
A bad crank position sensor will cause the ignition not to fire...or is it the injectors that won't fire... I forget... Anyway, I would make sure that that signal is good.
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 04-19-2012).]
A bad crank position sensor will cause the ignition not to fire...or is it the injectors that won't fire... I forget... Anyway, I would make sure that that signal is good.
Hmm, I would think the crank sensor does both as both need to happen at specific times. He did say he replace one already. If the pump runs - and is not wired backwards- and the injectors click and have proper fuel pressure the problem should be a timing issue. But then, the timing would have to be way off for it not to fire at all, like on the exhaust stroke. If that were case he should hear muffler/and/or/cat pops when he first sprays fuel into it, whereas the both would be full of raw gas. Yeah, not much help, sorry.
Problem fixed (at least at my end). I reprogrammed 86 toy's PCM and tested it today in a 3100 Fiero I have here and it runs. So all he needs to do is add that key-on power wire to pin C2-24 of his PCM connector and he should be good to go.
-ryan
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Finally got a chance to put the pcm in the car today and add the extra power wire..fired right up as soon as i turned the key .now the only problem I have is my tach reads almost double of what the actual rpm is, anyone know what might be causing that problem?
The TACH issue is because DIS fires twice as often as a distributor... I'm not sure what the solution is, maybe a recifier or something... Although, I don't have that problem with my tach...check the wiring diagram...
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 05-01-2012).]
The TACH issue is because DIS fires twice as often as a distributor... I'm not sure what the solution is, maybe a recifier or something... Although, I don't have that problem with my tach...check the wiring diagram...
I hooked up a V6 GT Fiero tach directly to the tach output terminal on the DIS module in that 3100 swap I did and the tach calibration is dead on... I have also done the same for every 3.4 DOHC and 3800 swap I've ever done and never had an issue with calibration OTHER THAN a problem that already existed with some factory Fiero tachs themselves. I think there might be an issue with 25+ year old circuit board level components breaking down here and that's where the tach calibration issues are resulting from...
[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 05-01-2012).]
good luck.
