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Europeen style 3800 turbo swap - what do you think ? by Englishrafe
Started on: 02-23-2012 05:24 AM
Replies: 128 (7209 views)
Last post by: Blacktree on 01-25-2021 10:41 AM
Englishrafe
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Report this Post03-12-2012 05:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EnglishrafeClick Here to Email EnglishrafeSend a Private Message to EnglishrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For those who think that I should keep the static ratio lower.
The results using "8.5:1" - 8.28:1 (real) pistons:
10psi boost = 10.17:1
12psi boost = 10.91:1
15psi boost = 12.03:1
20psi boost = 13.88:1

Yeah I know this is more reasonable, but what's the "driveability" of this set up ?
I don't want to hang arround waiting for spool-up -- my Renault 5 Gordini Turbo was horrid to drive anywhere else but on the track!

Edit: Yes, I own my second page !!!!

[This message has been edited by Englishrafe (edited 03-12-2012).]

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PK
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Report this Post03-12-2012 03:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PKSend a Private Message to PKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ooooh interesting build Raife. Have no idea how you managed to hear about a 3800 and so far away and such low miles! Jealousy is not a good trait.

Thanks for sharing.

Cheers
PK
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Report this Post03-12-2012 04:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
With that tinny tiny little turbo on there you should have no problems spooling it quickly... The turbos we have on most all of our stuff over here is roughly 1.75x bigger than that gt37.

The big T3 exhaust you have wont help your setup much at all, other than give you a bit more room passed 5500rpms (which you wont be able to go much higher than 6000rpms anyway). It will cost you more spool than it helps you in horsepower...

Most 3800s with that sized turbo will be limited to less than 500 bhp on 93 octane (I think they measure it 98 in EU), and at most 600 on better fuel.
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Englishrafe
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Report this Post03-12-2012 07:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EnglishrafeClick Here to Email EnglishrafeSend a Private Message to EnglishrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
....how you managed to hear about a 3800 and so far away and such low miles!


Ebay.de (German Ebay) - Had been looking all over Europe for one!
Not so sure about the miles any longer - the exhaust valves were a bit pitted on their seats. However, the crank and the block bores were spotless, so that's what counts!


 
quote
...tinny tiny little turbo...


And I thought it was a fairly big one !? Well I guess everything is relative....
Thanks for the advice - 400/500HP is right where I want it for everyday use.
I can always buy some 110 race fuel the next time I go back to England and to Santa Pod - be fun to push it to 600 on a run!

[This message has been edited by Englishrafe (edited 03-12-2012).]

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Englishrafe
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Report this Post03-20-2012 02:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EnglishrafeClick Here to Email EnglishrafeSend a Private Message to EnglishrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am going to order my con rods soon.
Could someone please confirm the length of "L32" type con rods ? (Length center to center)
There seems to be some difference in length between the N/A rods and the SC rods - and since I will be using forged SC type pistons, I need to get it right !
(I have only a set of N/A rods as reference.)

I'm going for H-beam type rods and the seller wants me to make sure that I have ordered the correct length - his rods are pretty much made to measure.

Thanks
Rafe
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KissMySSFiero
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Report this Post03-20-2012 05:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KissMySSFieroClick Here to Email KissMySSFieroSend a Private Message to KissMySSFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nice build. I'll follow this one. I was looking for a long time for a S2 3800 on ebay.de but the prices were always too high for my liking.

------------------
SSFiero@Aol.com 87 Gt-5spd-62k miles.

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Englishrafe
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Report this Post03-20-2012 05:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EnglishrafeClick Here to Email EnglishrafeSend a Private Message to EnglishrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by KissMySSFiero:

.....but the prices were always too high for my liking.


Yes, most of the time the 3800 (ex 3.8 Camaro) listed are about 1000+€.
I was lucky to come across my engine!


Anybody for the con rod lengths ? (Probably too early in the USA - still night time !)

[This message has been edited by Englishrafe (edited 03-20-2012).]

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Australian
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Report this Post03-20-2012 06:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AustralianClick Here to visit Australian's HomePageClick Here to Email AustralianSend a Private Message to AustralianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ckrummy:

It's cost more but why not top mount like a rx7 or a Subaru, it's not ideal but it should work better than putting it under the car. you would have to modify your deck lid but it would be sweet.

and forgive me it's an mr2 photo


That does look sweet and i like mr2s just not as much as fieros.
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Englishrafe
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Report this Post07-24-2012 06:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EnglishrafeClick Here to Email EnglishrafeSend a Private Message to EnglishrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here's an update.
I have been busy on other things like repairing my house and driving my Trans Am arround western France to go to all the different meetings!






But I finally got a bit of time to put the valves back in the heads:






Still have not ordered the pistons - maybe next month...!
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Englishrafe
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Report this Post07-24-2012 07:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EnglishrafeClick Here to Email EnglishrafeSend a Private Message to EnglishrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I also have started to put all the panels back on the car:




I'm on holiday next week, so I should have enough time to put the wings (fenders), bonnet and windscreen surround on (maybe not in that order!!)
I need the windscreen surround in place to fit the new windscreen (windshield).

I've ordered a set of S/S sunroof tracks from "silver 85 sc" as well.

I'll maybe have the body pretty much back together for september.......maybe!!
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Englishrafe
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Report this Post07-29-2012 03:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EnglishrafeClick Here to Email EnglishrafeSend a Private Message to EnglishrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Got my new stainless steel sunroof rails this week - thanks Richard !!

Here's the fitting on the windscreen surround/roof panel:



Job finished, and the the panel back on the car:



Also manged to mount one lower quarter panel last night as well:



Next job, the windscreen (windshield for you!)
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Report this Post08-18-2012 08:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NoMoreRicersClick Here to Email NoMoreRicersSend a Private Message to NoMoreRicersEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bump for a good build!
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Englishrafe
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Report this Post08-20-2012 01:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EnglishrafeClick Here to Email EnglishrafeSend a Private Message to EnglishrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yeah, thanks for the bump!

New wndscreen now in:



The front cross member is a bit "crusty":


Cut the rust out and replace....
.....kind of a long term battle with old cars, no?!





Probably finish this job tomorrow....I hope!
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Report this Post08-20-2012 08:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Good build. I like your attention to detail. I may suggest you find some US service personnel and befriend them. They could help you source bits from the states. We lived in the UK for 4yrs and I hope we get to go back soon. The Fiero guys there in the UK are some really good guys too! I fixed alot of Fiero's while I was there as well. I am proud to have saved a white 88GT that had been from shop to shop and always ended up worse than before it went in! I think when I finished my part, it was the 1st time the owner was able to drive it in 5yrs.

Anyway, good luck with your build. Oh, and definitely stick with w2a chargecooling.

------------------
Whodeanie built 1988 Fiero GT, loaded, 14k original miles, F23, built L67 swap, ST2 cam and matching valvetrain, PT67 bb turbo, w2a charge-cooled ----400-500whp?????? More mods when I get it back (interior, suspension, lighting etc). Stay tuned!
1987 Fiero GT Road Racer. 1st documented 3.4TDC swap- built in 1994. 5MT Isuzu, Quaife prototype LSD, HT Tubular A-arms, Fully poly & Heim jointed suspension, Custom 3 way adjustible sway bars, HT Bump Steer kit, Koin's, 320# springs, GA brakes, ZEX N20 and more! Under full restoration.
2007 Toyota Tacoma Double cab Prerunner SR5 Stock, and staying that way.
2009 KTM 250SX motocross bike. Modded and fun as hell!
2013 Can-Am Commander 1000 XT For the redneck in all of us! SideXSide's are sooooo fun!

ƒ13r0'$ rµ£3

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Englishrafe
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Report this Post08-22-2012 05:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EnglishrafeClick Here to Email EnglishrafeSend a Private Message to EnglishrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've finished repairing the front cross member:



Now ready to refit the nose:
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Report this Post08-23-2012 12:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for gtxbulletSend a Private Message to gtxbulletEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
great job!!! I am completely inspired!!!!
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Englishrafe
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Report this Post11-06-2012 02:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EnglishrafeClick Here to Email EnglishrafeSend a Private Message to EnglishrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A little update:
I havn't had much time these last few months to do very much with the Fiero.
I did manage to glue bin bag plastic to the doors:



I also started to refit the interior back together, starting with the headlining:




I also droped the flywheel off to have it machined down to 21.3mm.
I hope to start assembly of the engine this week as I have virtually everything I need - H-beam rods, coated pistons, cam etc...
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Englishrafe
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Report this Post11-19-2012 02:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EnglishrafeClick Here to Email EnglishrafeSend a Private Message to EnglishrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Got round to working 5 minutes on the engine block.
Time to take out the old cam bearings:


Ghetto style! (Using the old balance shaft as a drift.)


One can see that the bearing surface was worn:

(The new one to the left is so shinny!)
Don't worry, I'll be installing the new bearings with the proper tool, once it arrives with my next order of parts.

In the meantime, I started to repair the front cowling (below the windscreen).
This part was in bad shape as the grill materiel was totally rusted out and looked awfull.
After grinding out the rusted stuff and cleaning up the reverse side of the cowling I got some a new piece of grill from the local DIY store and started to cut it to shape:


Next, I fixed the new piece of grill with polyurethane mastic - this is quite a tricky job and takes a bit of time:


I'll finish the cowling next weekend.

[This message has been edited by Englishrafe (edited 11-19-2012).]

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Englishrafe
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Report this Post11-21-2012 01:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EnglishrafeClick Here to Email EnglishrafeSend a Private Message to EnglishrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I got the flywheel back from the machine shop today:


As you can see, the machined surface is riddled with tiny holes:




I'm not at all happy with the quality of this flywheel!
As has been stated on this forum more than a few times, the quality of various replacement parts is not up to much when they come from China!

I didn't choose to buy a chinese made part, and this part came from a reputable supplier as well, but as we can see it's utter cr*p!

So who sells good flywheels allready machined down for the 3800?
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Report this Post11-21-2012 02:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroWannaBeClick Here to Email FieroWannaBeSend a Private Message to FieroWannaBeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Spec Clutches Part Number # SC94AC is an aluminum Flywheel for Fiero swaps.
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Report this Post11-22-2012 01:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FFIEROFREDClick Here to Email FFIEROFREDSend a Private Message to FFIEROFREDEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The oil drain back holes are like that so they put the oil on the cam lobes. This was very important for flat tappets, not so much for rollers.
the 3800 will have more than enough TQ at low rpm to put a smile on your face. No matter what the compression is!
USE the light flywheel! you will need it to play with the porch's
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Englishrafe
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Report this Post11-22-2012 01:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EnglishrafeClick Here to Email EnglishrafeSend a Private Message to EnglishrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FFIEROFRED:

The oil drain back holes are like that so they put the oil on the cam lobes. This was very important for flat tappets, not so much for rollers.
the 3800 will have more than enough TQ at low rpm to put a smile on your face. No matter what the compression is!
USE the light flywheel! you will need it to play with the porch's



Yeah, I did the block modif just because I can - even if it doesn't add much to the overall performance or reliability. I like doing things myself!.

Playing with the Porsches, yes, that's why I'm doing all this!
And yes, it'll probably be the Spec alu flywheel and 3+ clutch.

As for the static comp ratio, I finally bought the 8.5:1 pistons, and the H-beam con rods as well !!
We'll see all of that once I start putting it all back together.....
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Englishrafe
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Report this Post11-29-2012 02:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EnglishrafeClick Here to Email EnglishrafeSend a Private Message to EnglishrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I finished le windscreen cowl:


I'm quite pleased with the result now it's back on the car:

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Report this Post11-30-2012 12:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ReallybigSend a Private Message to ReallybigEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Excellent work so far...keep it up!
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Englishrafe
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Report this Post12-04-2012 12:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EnglishrafeClick Here to Email EnglishrafeSend a Private Message to EnglishrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Been meaning to repair the corner of my dash ever since I bought the car.
After buying a dash cap and a can of paint from TFS, here goes:

Sorry, I forgot to take a photo of the damage before starting.
(Will try to find an old photo of the interior that shows the cracked corner - I guess most Fiero owners know what the average dash end cap looks like after 25 years of abuse!)

Here is the new corner grafted onto the broken cap. I simply layed the new cap over damaged area, then trimed it down "drastically" just until it covered only the damaged zone.



After which, it's just a question of cutting with a sharp knife around the new part, as a template, to cut out the old damage. Then just fix with superglue all the way round the new piece that should fit fairly well in the place of the damaged part (just cut out). Some filling with a fine mastic may be necessary to fill up any little holes.


I then made a "spay booth" to protect the rest of the dash and installed my 500W lamp to aide the drying process. (My garage is not heated and the ambient temperature in winter was well below the temp required for the paint!)



The overall result is very pleasing, and the Fiero Store paint is an exact match for the original dash colour!




I now just need to clean my carpets in order for all the interior to look good!!

[This message has been edited by Englishrafe (edited 12-04-2012).]

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Englishrafe
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Report this Post12-18-2012 11:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EnglishrafeClick Here to Email EnglishrafeSend a Private Message to EnglishrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Things are starting to get together with the motor.

Cam bearing installation:



Cam going back in:


Shell bearings (mains) in place:


And the crank placed back where it should be!



Mains caps torqued up and the double roller timing chain in place:

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Englishrafe
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Report this Post12-18-2012 11:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EnglishrafeClick Here to Email EnglishrafeSend a Private Message to EnglishrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I started to put together my new pistons and connecting rods.
"Yum yum", new forged pistons and h-beam rods - drooling like Homer Simpson. "Arghhhhhh!


After fighting with the spiro-locs for 10 minutes, here is the first piston/rod assembly:
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Englishrafe
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Report this Post12-18-2012 12:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EnglishrafeClick Here to Email EnglishrafeSend a Private Message to EnglishrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I got round to fitting two pistons into the motor:




.....and I finally fitted the dark smoked quarter window panels:



(They look better in natural light - my camera phone is rubbish!)

[This message has been edited by Englishrafe (edited 12-18-2012).]

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Englishrafe
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Report this Post12-22-2012 06:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EnglishrafeClick Here to Email EnglishrafeSend a Private Message to EnglishrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a question concerning the insulating materiel thats glued to all the inside of the engine bay:
Should I keep it ? Or is it too much of a potentiel fire hazard ?

Looking at most build threads, you guys seem to no longer have this materiel in your engine bays ?
Thanks for any advice on the subject.
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Report this Post12-22-2012 06:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Englishrafe:

I have a question concerning the insulating materiel thats glued to all the inside of the engine bay:
Should I keep it ? Or is it too much of a potentiel fire hazard ?

Looking at most build threads, you guys seem to no longer have this materiel in your engine bays ?
Thanks for any advice on the subject.


Keep it if it's in good condition, usually it gets removed when it's already in shambles, otherwise it's best left in place because without it the engine bay heat starts to transfer to the cabin. It's not a problem during the Winter but if you have a real Summer it will make a difference.
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Report this Post12-22-2012 09:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Pete MatosSend a Private Message to Pete MatosEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey man Kick ass build thread ya got here. Love the motor build DIY style too. Those heads look great. Cannot wait to see what you end up with here it should really kick ass if it is anything like the rest of the turbo 3800 builds around here. When you get it done and start toying with the Porsche's at the 'ring we are definitely gonna need some video okay!! keep up the good work, it is looking real nice. Peace

Pete

[This message has been edited by Pete Matos (edited 12-22-2012).]

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Englishrafe
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Report this Post12-23-2012 02:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EnglishrafeClick Here to Email EnglishrafeSend a Private Message to EnglishrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Pete Matos:

......When you get it done and start toying with the Porsche's at the 'ring we are definitely gonna need some video okay!! keep up the good work, it is looking real nice.........



Yeah, thanks, and don't worry, once back on the road there will be lots of video !!!
I'm a fairly regular trackday enthusiast so I have the opportunity to race againt all types of cars.

My car club is planning an "expedition" in the near futur to the "ring", but there are also monthly outings to the two more local circuits - relatively speaking: 250 to 350km from where I live !
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Englishrafe
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Report this Post12-23-2012 02:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EnglishrafeClick Here to Email EnglishrafeSend a Private Message to EnglishrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Oh! Another question for the 3800 people:
Do you keep the timing chain tensioner when using a double roller chain ?
The chain is well taught, rather like the one I fitted to my V8 powered Trans Am. And the V8 doesn't have any kind of tensioner.
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Report this Post12-23-2012 02:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EnglishrafeClick Here to Email EnglishrafeSend a Private Message to EnglishrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Englishrafe:

Oh! Another question for the 3800 people:
Do you keep the timing chain tensioner when using a double roller chain ?
The chain is well taught, rather like the one I fitted to my V8 powered Trans Am. And the V8 doesn't have any kind of tensioner.


I just checked the ZZP website - one does not use the tensioner with a double roller chain !

Answered myself.
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Report this Post12-23-2012 04:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PKSend a Private Message to PKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Noice wan rafe.


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Report this Post12-23-2012 02:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Pete MatosSend a Private Message to Pete MatosEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Englishrafe:


Yeah, thanks, and don't worry, once back on the road there will be lots of video !!!
I'm a fairly regular trackday enthusiast so I have the opportunity to race againt all types of cars.

My car club is planning an "expedition" in the near futur to the "ring", but there are also monthly outings to the two more local circuits - relatively speaking: 250 to 350km from where I live !


Sweet man...PROCEED!! Peace

Pete
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Report this Post12-24-2012 09:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hnthompsClick Here to Email hnthompsSend a Private Message to hnthompsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I like the car color. What paint did you use?

Nelson
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Englishrafe
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From: Lorient, FRANCE
Registered: May 2008


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Report this Post12-25-2012 04:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EnglishrafeClick Here to Email EnglishrafeSend a Private Message to EnglishrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hnthomps:

I like the car color. What paint did you use?

Nelson


It's done in two tone Maserati green !
(I didn't want a replica car - I like my Fiero for what it is - however, the Italian super cars have some wicked colours sometimes, especially from the '70s!!)

I went through the paint catalogue and chose 2 metalic colours that seemed to go well together:
203.330 - "Verde Mexico" for the body, mirrors and top part of the bumpers.
290.314 - "Verde Goodwood" for the lower part of the bumpers and all the ground effect parts.

The wheels will be done in some kind of metalic anthracite - very dark grey/black.

Thanks for your interest, oh and by the way "Merry Christmas" to you and all of the PFF community!

[This message has been edited by Englishrafe (edited 12-25-2012).]

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Englishrafe
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Report this Post03-17-2013 04:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EnglishrafeClick Here to Email EnglishrafeSend a Private Message to EnglishrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hi everyone!
Just a little update:
The engine is getting back together.
All the new forged pistons and the H-beam rods are in. It took a little longer because I "screwed up" the file fitting of one of the second piston rings - just a little bit too much of a gap!
I had to order another set of rings just to get one more 2nd ring - that'll teach me to be carefull and not rush the rebuilding process.
The heads are bolted on with their Cometic gaskets and ARP studs. There are alot of new parts in this engine as I want a "bullet proof" motor.

The nose is back on the body, though I still need to fit the side lights. New brackets needed to make them fit better than before. In France I was obliged to change the amber side lights to white ones and have the indicators still amber/orange. The only way to do this was to use a different light cluster that I "bodged" into place in the recesses on the nose cone.
Now the job needs to be done properly....

I'll upload some photos of the progress later today.
Regards,
Rafe
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