I have bought a 2.0 supercharged LSJ ecotec motor and trans....well the whole wrecked Cobalt SS actually. Ill be detailing my swap here. Itll be going into my 86GT. Ill be needing advise from those that have been down the ecotec swap road. Im hoping to do this with the least amount of modifications to the actual car. Im still debating on swapping all the cobalts electronics, ECU, BCM, etc. or to go with megasquirt. Im also selling my current motor and trans. I have a 3.1 V6 with getrag 5spd for sale. It has the 7730 with DIS swap done and running. Wish me luck! out with the old in with the new
Thanks for the links! Ive been lurking around most of the ecotec threads for a few years. Ill probably be giving Roger a call some time soon. Tho, I may just go my own route on mounts and I dont think his shifter kit will work for the F35 Trans.
i would love to do a swap with the whole donor car at my disposal .i would use all the factory electronics .makes it so much easier to adapt the modern stuff to your fiero .
Ive been thinking about how I would go about doing it to where I have all the cobalts electronics. The biggest thing for me is for the cruise control to work.... Its something ill have to figure out. I may just try to put as much of the donor car electronics in as i can. How nice would it be to use the cobalt key fob to unlock the doors and use in the ignition switch instead of the fieros!? But how would I make the door lock and trunk lock use the cobalts key.... these are only a few of the things ill have to weigh on and figure out. It will be a fun process! Hey! The cobalt has electric power steering!! Ya this will be fun! I would like it to be drivable for summer.... Maybe i should just do it in steps.
Im gonna have to watch this thread, haven't seen an Ecotec thread. If you need any help, im sure the UFO's could get together, and have a Fiero day. I know id be interested in helping out. Craig
Im gonna have to watch this thread, haven't seen an Ecotec thread. If you need any help, im sure the UFO's could get together, and have a Fiero day. I know id be interested in helping out. Craig
There are quite a few, I was planning on doing this swap but it just wasn't in the cards with the way things have been going. Some day though, this is THE swap to do IMO. Its not cheap or simple, but it complements what the Fiero is all about.
what is the most difficult part about getting it in the fiero? wouldnt it be like most other motor swaps? mount the trans in the right spot, fit the engine to the trans and make motor mounts from there, build/modify headers, build harness, put in car, route cooling lines, attach throttle cable and build axles. maybe it just easy to me?
looks like it will be a blast tho. ive wanted to do this swap. to my aveo as well.
[This message has been edited by americasfuture2k (edited 12-10-2011).]
There is a lot of pros and cons to this swap. And it all depends on what direction you go. Its easier than some in that the axles are pretty much plug and play with the fiero hubs. No need for custom axles. The exhaust wont be terrible tho it will need to be custom. Cooling lines wont likely be a huge issue. Of course custom trans and engine mounts and some cradle modification. The engine wiring is where it gets complicated. I can go with a stand alone unit and have a driving car. But I will not get to use cruise control (as far as I understand, some one chime in if im wrong). Since i have the donor car I can try to use all of its electronics and have a few comforts that they didnt have in the 80s or have since refined. We will see how it comes along. I do predict this may take longer than I want. Regardless it will be worth it when its done!
Im gonna have to watch this thread, haven't seen an Ecotec thread. If you need any help, im sure the UFO's could get together, and have a Fiero day. I know id be interested in helping out. Craig
That would be a lot of fun! The most help ill probably end up needing is with welding and cutting metal for mounts. Even if we dont do any work we could have a BBQ and get together. Cant wait for warmer weather!!
As long as you have a standard 4000 PPM output from your ECM you should be able to run the GM AR Cruise Control Servo.
Any PCM should have a 4000 PPM output to run stock speedos
quote
Originally posted by Goldenfoot05:
There is a lot of pros and cons to this swap. And it all depends on what direction you go. Its easier than some in that the axles are pretty much plug and play with the fiero hubs. No need for custom axles. The exhaust wont be terrible tho it will need to be custom. Cooling lines wont likely be a huge issue. Of course custom trans and engine mounts and some cradle modification. The engine wiring is where it gets complicated. I can go with a stand alone unit and have a driving car. But I will not get to use cruise control (as far as I understand, some one chime in if im wrong). Since i have the donor car I can try to use all of its electronics and have a few comforts that they didnt have in the 80s or have since refined. We will see how it comes along. I do predict this may take longer than I want. Regardless it will be worth it when its done!
Good luck on this swap... I've got an 04 Ion Redline and an 86GT that I'd love to marry together one day.
I've never done any measuring on this, but take a look at where the oil filter is located (under the supercharger nose). I'm curious after swapping into the Fiero if you'll be able to get at it. In the Ion, I drop a 10" extension in from the top and put the wrench on and then wiggle my hand around to find it. I'm curious though if you'll be able to reach it approaching from the "back" of the engine as you would if it were transplanted in a Fiero.
Other than that, take a look at ZZ Performance for some go fast goodies while you have it out.
EDIT: Sorry, it's not under the supercharger nose, it's under where the air comes into the supercharger.
[This message has been edited by pHoOl (edited 12-11-2011).]
Good luck on this swap... I've got an 04 Ion Redline and an 86GT that I'd love to marry together one day.
I've never done any measuring on this, but take a look at where the oil filter is located (under the supercharger nose). I'm curious after swapping into the Fiero if you'll be able to get at it. In the Ion, I drop a 10" extension in from the top and put the wrench on and then wiggle my hand around to find it. I'm curious though if you'll be able to reach it approaching from the "back" of the engine as you would if it were transplanted in a Fiero.
Other than that, take a look at ZZ Performance for some go fast goodies while you have it out.
EDIT: Sorry, it's not under the supercharger nose, it's under where the air comes into the supercharger.
Ya that is something ive though about. I just sold my 06 cobalt ss/sc and it was always a pain to change the oil filter. Im sure it will be harder to change in the fiero. I do know that there is a remote filter option available. I may go that route with it. That would also make it so I can use a normal can type filer. I do plan on doing some mods to the engine with ZZP parts. Likely a stage kit, dual pass with option b, stage 3 intercooler/heat exchanger.
Got an idea on where to find the remote filter? Seems like anytime I've looked for one the answer was that you'd have to make a plug to fit into the cartridge housing. Would love one for the redline... even if i never swap it into the fiero
That is the exact one I was looking at! There was another that came with the other end of the setup, but I cant find the whole kit anymore. But with the CBM adapter some fittings and high pressure lines and this http://www.race-mart.com/Ca...ucts-CAN-22-600.html you will have everything you need. It would also make it easy to tie in the fiero oil pressure gauge sensor. Its something that I will most likely do. Im picking up the donor car tomorrow!! I'll be honest, its scary knowing my baby will never be the same.... But the excitement of knowing that she will have the power to match her looks outweighs the fear! Im still debating on what I should do with the wiring.... I want to use as much from the donor car as possible... but I dont know how extensive that will be... I dont want the ABS and airbag lights constantly on and going off in the info display. I wonder if they can be deleted off the BCM!? I also dont want this to turn into a swap that takes years.... Someone who has swapped all their donor cars electronics chime in.... was it worth it?
[This message has been edited by Goldenfoot05 (edited 12-11-2011).]
yes it is worth it .and the best thing about it is you can get your car up and running really quick . i had mine running in 6 weeks .get it running and then slowly add the fancy bits .my big mistake was chopping up the stock harness from the cavalier .leave it alone , bury it under the passenger seat and add stuff when you are able .and if you have not seen an ecotec swap thread yet , i am in the construction zone .and i have been since the zone was started .
yes it is worth it .and the best thing about it is you can get your car up and running really quick . i had mine running in 6 weeks .get it running and then slowly add the fancy bits .my big mistake was chopping up the stock harness from the cavalier .leave it alone , bury it under the passenger seat and add stuff when you are able .and if you have not seen an ecotec swap thread yet , i am in the construction zone .and i have been since the zone was started .
The more I think about it the more I think I will swap as much of the cobalts electronics over. May not be easier, but it will be cheaper since I have the car. And youre right.... who says everything has to be finished for the car to run? I have seen, read and poked around just about every ecotec thread PFF has to offer. Yours by far is my favorite! If the car im getting hadnt come along for a good price and my cobalt hadnt sold I was going to go your route. Start with a N/A motor and f23 and slowly build it up. I know it says I just registered but ive been on PFF for quite some time now, just inactive I guess. And I forgot my password to my previous profile and the password to the e-mail linked to that profile. So I started new!
I've wondered if the brakes could be swapped over as well... cause I sure love the way they are on the Ion/Cobalt
You guys keep giving me these wonderful ideas! Just need to get some cobalt rotors redrilled for the fiero lug pattern and brackets made for the calipers to mount to the hubs. See if maybe the cobalt booster will fot the fiero to... or do the s10 booster. Oh the possibilities.
Check out Coppertop's Ecotec thread, (partially here, mostly on google blogger) also ccfiero350's LSJ Supercharged Ecotec Swap .
Roger Thelin's Ecotec adapter plates may work as well. This could save you a ton of work, and time spent. If he doesn't have parts, maybe you can work together with him, if he sees demand, he may make LSJ/LNF specific parts.
Rodney Dickman may also be a good resource to work together with on custom parts.
[This message has been edited by Austrian Import (edited 12-13-2011).]
I'll gladly admit I have no clue how suspensions/brakes are engineered to work together, but I wonder if you could swap the cobalt hub over... then you'd be using the cobalt bolt pattern and have some free 18" wheels to go with it.
On a side note... if you don't mind me asking, what'd you get the whole car for? I was just checking ebay and there were LSJs for like $1500 but those were pullouts
Austrian Import: Thanks for the links! I will most likely be using them a lot during this swap. I actually just re-found coppertops blog yesterday. He was another that inspired me to tackle this. Tho I wont be going to quite the extent coppertop and ccfiero350 have gone with their builds. I do admire their work and skill but I will be using this as my daily good weather driver. Probably wont see more than a 1/4 mile drag race or 2 at rocky mountain raceway.
pHoOl: I have thought about using the cobalt hubs and knuckles but I wouldnt even know where to start with that and it would over complicate the build for me. Im going to school to be a machinist so redrilling the rotors would be cake and making brackets for the cobalt brakes to mount to the fiero hubs wouldnt be terribly difficult. We will see where I go with the brakes. I will probably want something bigger/more powerful to stop it since ill have more power making it go. $2500 for the car, engine, and trans. Tho the guy I bought it from did sell off a few parts. Mostly interior or cosmetic parts that I wont need.
$2500... interesting. That might help make the case for me in a few years... I gotta get 3 more years out of the Ion, before I can buy a new car (gotta wait til the wife's gets paid off). But last time I was in a dealership, they told me theyd give me $3,000 on trade in for it. I wonder what a rebuild would cost... as I'm at 102K miles already, and the Fiero only has 57K...
But yeah... if it'd be cheaper to hack my car then buy a wrecked one...
Only 3000? A redline? Wow.... almost sounds criminal. Tho ive never looked at prices on ions. Might be worth it! Dont know about the cost on the reuild. This car had 71k on it. Im pretty sure im going to pull the head and check things out but mostly to put a new head gasket on since I plan on running more boost. Crazy your ion has almost double the miles of your Fiero. Your fiero must look great! Mine shows its 160k miles. After the engine swap my wife is making me get a paint job... tho id like a madarc widebody, chop the top and then paint.... alas im still in college and will likely spend the next bit of $ I get on a kid. Im told a kid or 2 is a worthwhile investment.
Yeah, the dealership said around $3K, then when i told them it was a redline they said that'd only get me $100 more. Umm... no thanks!
We'll see when the time gets near... talking the wife into scrapping a running car instead of selling it might be tough.
On the kids thing... i hear they cost $250K between birth and age 18... Haven't got any yet... maybe spring. I think the motorcycle is in the crosshairs, but I'm digging my heels in on the Fiero.
Got the new motor on the stand today. Also got the trans out of the donor. To bad the axles didnt survive the accident. There are a few other casualties but will be easily replaced. Inter cooler pump, oil pressure switch and reverse sensor on trans were taken out by the accident. :/ Turned the motor over with the starter and all sounds good. Ill do a compression test soon, tho im not worried about anything being wrong. I still plan on pulling the head and cleaning/checking the top end. Trans seems unharmed and still turns in all the gears. Just a little dirty. Need to tidy up the garage and start tearing things apart. More to come soon!
Heres the motor as it sits. its future LSD!!!
[This message has been edited by Goldenfoot05 (edited 12-15-2011).]
Yeah, the dealership said around $3K, then when i told them it was a redline they said that'd only get me $100 more. Umm... no thanks!
We'll see when the time gets near... talking the wife into scrapping a running car instead of selling it might be tough.
On the kids thing... i hear they cost $250K between birth and age 18... Haven't got any yet... maybe spring. I think the motorcycle is in the crosshairs, but I'm digging my heels in on the Fiero.
Ya it would be tough to scrap a perfectly good car. Just have to wait to see what life brings your way.
Almost 14k per year!? Dang! No wonder my parents were always broke. Im one of 7. We are thinking spring too. Just need to get a better job so she can work less. We will see what life brings us.
Got me a set of these. ZZP stage 1 axles. Wish I didnt have to get any at all but the originals were ruined. At least I will have less to worry about if I launch hard! Got a good deal for them from a guy on CSS.net. Still need to gather a lot more parts. Still need to get the 3.1 and getrag out. Still lots to do.... but its dang cold in my garage!!
Im going to get some video of the before with it at idle, on the road and such. Will do the same when I get the LSJ in.
unless you are planning on upgrading your pistons , pulling the head off that motor is a big waste of time and money .the stock LSJ head gasket has proven to be better than the cometic and unless this is a high miler you are not going to find anything bad in there .get the latest cam chain tensioner , that is a known problem area .leaving the motor as is can save a lot of headaches .the only reason i took my latest 2.2 apart was to upgrade the rods and pistons .and i would not have done that if they were not such a weak spot .
The gasket was what I was most worried about. Im going to go with a smaller pulley and thought that with the additional boost I would need a better gasket. I was planning on getting the cometic gasket. Thanks for letting me know! I will probably still tear down the intake and clean that up. I plan on putting a catch can on the PVC system to keep the grime out of the intake. I had to clean the throttle body on my cobalt every other oil change to keep it from having a unstable idle. It wont be as easy to do on the Fiero having the TB on the firewall side of the engine bay. Ive read up on the cam chain tensioner on CSS.net and there were so many mixed results and ways that it was changed that im not sure what to do about it. http://www.cobaltss.net/for...in-tensioner-203071/ Whats the right way? Thanks for sharing your knowledge! I do appreciate it!!
as far as the chain tensioner goes you have to install it in the compressed position .it is not necessary to then reach in with something and pop it open like a lot of people say to do .as soon as the engine turns over , the tensioner piston will extend .i have done it both ways and it is much easier to just put it in compressed and let it open on its own .and that is the way that the haynes manual and the GM ecotec build book say to do it so i think it is correct .
i just read that how to thread and i dont know why he removed so much stuff .i guess on a balt there must be a lot of stuff in the way with the engine in the car .you can see the tensioner plain as day in one of your photos above .all you do to remove it is unscrew the big bolt that forms the housing .just move it slow when you pull it out because sometimes it will fall apart .it appears you have the old style tensioner going by your pics .
I feel more confident now knowing youve done it. And that the build book and haynes confirms it. I could get to it pretty easy in the cobalt. Im not sure why the guy removed all the stuff he did. I guess to look at the chain while he did it. Ill get one ordered. If I hadnt sold my balt that was the next thing I was going to do, it was getting kinda noisy in the right area. Im sure this ones is original and it has 13k more miles than my balt had when I sold it. Im sure it needs it. Thanks again!
Just found this. http://econtent.autozone.co.../2/00/723/sa9374.pdf I think I will just go this route since it seems like a few guys have jumped teeth on their timing chains when doing the timing chain tensioner install. I dont want to take any chances.
Progress is slow but is progress none the less. I tore down the intake. I did this to check, clean and prep for some better inter-cooling modifications. It all looks pretty good. Tho I wish I had a parts cleaner. Ordered me a few parts from rock-auto and autozone. Got me a new timing chain tensioner, thermostat, oil pressure switch and backup switch. The last 2 because they were damaged. The first 2 because they commonly go out and its easier to do with the engine on the stand. Not going to get much done before Christmas. I have a few "honey dos" and words gotten out to the neighbors that I can do auto work. :P
Merry Christmas! I hope everyone had a happy safe holiday! I did! Nothing better than spending time with friends and family to celebrate the birth of our Lord and Savior. He of course gave us the most important gift, but my wife did get me something for the Fiero!
She got me a pair of heated seat kits! Like I didnt have enough to do on my car! Itll be nice to have a warm seat tho when shes all done.
I got me a few new parts for the motor. Oil pressure switch, reverse switch and thermostat. Picking up the timing chain tensioner tomorrow and maybe a parts cleaner.
Just found this thread, welcome to the LSJ fiero club!
Did all the mount holes in the tranny survive the crash?
Happy and excited to be part of 'the LSJ fiero club'! Thanks!
Yes, the only thing damaged from the accident on the trans was the upper trans mount, the axles and the reverse switch. Nothing on the case took a hit. Been watching you and coppertop for a while now. You guys and owning a fiero and cobalt ss/sc are what inspired me. Cant wait to get in running and on the street!
Dont know about the cost on the reuild. This car had 71k on it. Im pretty sure im going to pull the head and check things out but mostly to put a new head gasket on since I plan on running more boost. Crazy your ion has almost double the miles of your Fiero. Your fiero must look great! Mine shows its 160k miles. After the engine swap my wife is making me get a paint job... tho id like a madarc widebody, chop the top and then paint.... alas im still in college and will likely spend the next bit of $ I get on a kid. Im told a kid or 2 is a worthwhile investment. 
