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Need to push piston back into caliper with rotor still on by 85 SE VIN 9
Started on: 11-26-2011 08:12 AM
Replies: 56 (1876 views)
Last post by: 85 SE VIN 9 on 10-17-2013 07:24 PM
85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post11-26-2011 08:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Having waited so long to do the rear brakes the outside pad has ground down the rotor to the point that it has created a lip that is making it very difficult to remove. The caliper is working fine. All I want to do is replace the rotor and pads and all I need to do that is to get the caliper to let go of the rotor. That however has proven to be very difficult. The caliper can be unbolted and the rotor is loose, but the caliper has a death grip on the rotor. So far it has destroyed one clamp and resisted the heroic efforts of another. An hour with a set of pry bars has only created about a sixteenth inch gap between the pads and rotor. About three eighths of an inch is needed just to get the rotor free of the caliper. Regular pad spreaders and piston retraction tools aren't going to work because the caliper is still on the rotor. Besides I don't have those. I do have pictures of this mess, but the PIP doesn't want to upload them. First it says it's not responding, then it gives an error message.

Is there some way to force the piston back or some reason it's so hard?

I have new everything (calipers, rotors, hoses, hardware, tools), but I don't want to have to do all that and have to bleed out there in the parking lot in the November rain. The parking brakes aren't hooked up (although I have all those parts too), but the calipers clamp tight when I press the pedal and release as they're supposed to. The inside of the rotor is shiny and smooth, left and right. I think the best thing is to just get the rotors off and replace the pads. That should at least get me to spring.
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JumpStart
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Report this Post11-26-2011 09:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JumpStartClick Here to Email JumpStartSend a Private Message to JumpStartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I dont have any pictures to show you but what I do is get a big flathead screwdriver and put it in the hole on the side of the caliper and catch the face of the rotor with the tip. When you pull back on the screwdriver(Carefully) it will push the piston back in. Looking at it, I think you will see what I mean. Hope this helps.

Steve
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post11-26-2011 09:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post11-26-2011 09:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you have the slider bolts removed, you might try bending or breaking off the spring metal retainers on the outboard pad. This might allow you to pull the caliper off while leaving the pad in place. By doing so, you don't need to clear the lip on the rotor with the pad. The rear piston should be screwed in as opposed to pressed in to retract it. Pressing it in can destroy internal components.
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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post11-26-2011 10:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JumpStart:

I dont have any pictures to show you but what I do is get a big flathead screwdriver and put it in the hole on the side of the caliper and catch the face of the rotor with the tip. When you pull back on the screwdriver(Carefully) it will push the piston back in. Looking at it, I think you will see what I mean. Hope this helps.

Steve


Yes I see that, even have a couple pictures. That's one of the places I've been prying. It appears from phonedawgs Ogre post that I have to remove the ebrake lever. It does move, but I didn't remove it. I'll try that. I didn't realize it has to turn more than a little.

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phonedawgz
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Report this Post11-26-2011 10:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Remove the e-brake lever and then screw the stud into the caliper just a little bit. That will allow the pad to push back some.

You need to get the ridge off of your rotors either by replacing them or by turning them. You will have problems reassembling the brakes and getting the adjustment right if you don't.
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theogre
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Report this Post11-26-2011 10:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

http://home.comcast.net/~fierocave/brakerear.htm


Yes,,, The Clamp, w/ removing ebrake level, should retract the piston w/ little effort.
If piston won't move then something is major wrong w/ the caliper or piston.

Was a rebuild caliper? Rebuilders will rebuild the piston but problem is that the Piston is not made for rebuild, made for one shot use then trash it. These are for my rebuild ones... They blew out the piston's guts...


------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)


The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 11-26-2011).]

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Raydar
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Report this Post11-26-2011 10:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Another vote for removing the e-brake lever.
Once you do that, you should be able to use the clamp to press the piston back in. (Assuming the earlier cars work like the 88s.)
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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post11-26-2011 06:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm sure you're right about the e brake lever. I don't know how I overlooked that. I hope I didn't break anything trying to push the piston back without removing the lever. I guess I didn't see the need given that in this situation there was no need to put the clamp anywhere near the screw in order to clamp since I can clamp onto the rotor itself, not the piston.

Now it's raining. Maybe tomorrow it will be tolerable to make another try before I need to drive or take the bus to work Monday.

The fact that the rebuilds may not be any better than the existing, working caliper is one more reason to avoid that route as long as possible.
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James Bond 007
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Report this Post11-27-2011 10:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for James Bond 007Send a Private Message to James Bond 007Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I agree with the recomendations posted, remove the cover on the master cylinder, this will releave the brake pressure, then pull the emergency brake (then release it) or use a screw drive to get under the pad and jently pry.
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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post11-27-2011 11:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The e brake is long gone, although I have all the cables, etc., just not the time to replace them. It's been raining for two days now and the temp has gone down about fifteen degrees. I'm still planning to make another attempt when the rain stops this afternoon, but working on the ground when it's almost freezing is a good way to get pneumonia. I thought about removing the master cylinder cap, but doesn't it have a vent hole? I do plan to remove the e brake lever from the caliper. My understanding is that you pretty much just remove the nut that holds it on. I'll bet they're right that's what's keeping the piston from retracting. The e brake is involved in adjusting the piston to keep the pads the right distance from the rotor as they wear. It only goes one way. I just hope I haven't damaged it by prying so hard against it.
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Report this Post11-27-2011 02:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just went through the exact same thing last night. I just "muscled" it off & replaced the rotor, pads & caliper. for what they cost for a new (Lifetime warrentee), it's the only safe way to go.
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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post11-27-2011 04:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just got back in from torquing the lug nuts. It's still cold and raining and there's a puddle right where I have to kneel. If I mess with it now I'll be sick all week. If it seems like the prying has done any damage I may have to bring out the new calipers, but that might not be until spring. Good thing we have pretty good bus service.
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ricreatr
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Report this Post11-28-2011 06:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ricreatrSend a Private Message to ricreatrEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
you could use a grinder to take the lip off of enough of the rotor to make a "window" to get the caliper off.
the rotor is already junk.
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Report this Post11-28-2011 06:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mickeyswing52Click Here to Email mickeyswing52Send a Private Message to mickeyswing52Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I second the grinder part. I used a grinder to take the lip off the inside and the outside of the rotor, only have to take off enough to slide the caliper off. Does not have to be all the way around. Then you can slide the caliper off. Easy to work on once it`s off.
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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post11-28-2011 07:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That's a good point. I don't have a grinder per se, but I could probably grind a window with a drill-mounted grindstone, which I do have. I hope that removing the e brake lever will allow the piston to move more freely. The trouble with brute force, besides the possibility of damage, is at the rate I've been going it would take hours to push the piston far enough back to get the caliper off. In the mean time, pushing the pads back has reduced the agonizing grinding noises when using the brakes. I'm optimistic about the e brake lever making enough difference.

By the way, thanks so much for the thoughtful suggestions. The forum seems more interested in my problem than I am. I didn't think anybody would understand the idea of a lip on the edge of the rotor without pictures (which I have but haven't been able to post) much less come up with a way around it. Last year I gave up on driving at about this time just to avoid being stranded by the ICM again.
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JumpStart
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Report this Post11-29-2011 11:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JumpStartClick Here to Email JumpStartSend a Private Message to JumpStartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 85 SE VIN 9:

I didn't think anybody would understand the idea of a lip on the edge of the rotor without pictures


You have no idea how many rotord I have seen with a lip on them lol.

Funny story... Years ago I went to a friends house that had his own shop. When I pulled up, my brake pads were grinding ( just started) and another guy there started preaching to me on how I needed to keep a better eye on things like this. I replaced the pads that weekend and was over there about 2 weeks later. My friend told me he wanted to show me something.

" See that rotor?"
"yea"
"It was the guys that was preaching to you about yours"
"So?"
"Pick it up"

I did and it had actually been cut into by bad brake pads. Some people LOL

Steve
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Report this Post11-29-2011 10:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gtxbulletSend a Private Message to gtxbulletEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 85 SE VIN 9:

Having waited so long to do the rear brakes the outside pad has ground down the rotor to the point that it has created a lip that is making it very difficult to remove. The caliper is working fine. All I want to do is replace the rotor and pads and all I need to do that is to get the caliper to let go of the rotor. That however has proven to be very difficult. The caliper can be unbolted and the rotor is loose, but the caliper has a death grip on the rotor. So far it has destroyed one clamp and resisted the heroic efforts of another. An hour with a set of pry bars has only created about a sixteenth inch gap between the pads and rotor. About three eighths of an inch is needed just to get the rotor free of the caliper. Regular pad spreaders and piston retraction tools aren't going to work because the caliper is still on the rotor. Besides I don't have those. I do have pictures of this mess, but the PIP doesn't want to upload them. First it says it's not responding, then it gives an error message.

Is there some way to force the piston back or some reason it's so hard?

I have new everything (calipers, rotors, hoses, hardware, tools), but I don't want to have to do all that and have to bleed out there in the parking lot in the November rain. The parking brakes aren't hooked up (although I have all those parts too), but the calipers clamp tight when I press the pedal and release as they're supposed to. The inside of the rotor is shiny and smooth, left and right. I think the best thing is to just get the rotors off and replace the pads. That should at least get me to spring.


I HAD THIS EXACT SAME PROBLEM ON MYNEW 84 SE!!!
I feel better I'm not alone. sorry for your issue you're having though.

I used a stock fiero tire iron to pry the caliper. that didn't really work...then I unbolted the parking brake stuff and backed the inner adjuster bolt that attaches to the back of the caliper. pryed a bit more and just ended up smacking it with a hammer while prying. it popped of after I got all the fluid out, as the piston was stuck.

I replaced my caliper, rotor, and pads.

whups, should've said that first...My caliper was frozen, thats why I had such trouble.

Hope my bantering has helperd you in some way.

Best of luck!!!
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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post02-04-2012 11:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ricreatr:

you could use a grinder to take the lip off of enough of the rotor to make a "window" to get the caliper off.
the rotor is already junk.


Thank you. Yes, I was able to use the drill bit grinder wheel and portable drill to grind about a third of the lip off. The caliper was still gripping so tight that I had to use a rubber mallet to pound the calliper off the rotor through that "window." I still can't get the piston to retract or the ebrake lever nut loose. I borrowed the brake tool from O'Reilly's, but the piston was out too far to use the tool as intended. I was however able to push the piston back a noticable amount, which, by the way, did not affect the ebrake lever.

On New Year's Day I went to the mall and got a harmonic balancer puller from Sears. I had intended to put the main part of the puller inside the caliper jaws, then tighten the forcing screw against the piston, but the puller body is way too thick. Instead I have bought nuts and washers to attach the puller to the outside of the caliper using the pad retainer holes. The weather has been remarkably warm and is likely to continue, so I may be able to do this tomorrow or Monday after work. Naturally I considered C-clamps, but I know hand force (especially given my meager hand torquing strength) is not going to be sufficient. Stronger clamps that can accept a wrench of some kind start at about ten times the price of hand-tighten C-clamps. The harmonic balancer puller was less than twenty dollars online, pick up at store.

I actually spent more ($100) on bus fare in January than I did on gas ($77.84) in November, the last full month I drove.

I have photos, but I'm getting a 12003 upload error, PIP not responding.

Jumpstart - there is a bright, shiny, late-model BMW 7 series in a parking lot I walk past every night. It has a lip on the driver's side front rotor!

[This message has been edited by 85 SE VIN 9 (edited 02-04-2012).]

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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post03-25-2012 09:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Now that it's warmer I've been able to get the ebrake lever to turn and even to remove the nut and lever. I pushed the piston back with the harmonic balancer puller attached to the outer pad retaining clip holes and managed to get the new pads and rotor on. The other side was no problem, except - a little fluid came out, and was very difficult to stop. It was still a slow drip the last I looked at it. I've had this experience on another car and found that it's not the big deal it would seem. I think it has to do with the piston pulling the square cross-section seal out of its slot. It's meant to be deformed when the piston moves. That's what pulls the piston back just a tiny bit to release the brakes. When you push the piston a lot it can pull the seal out of its groove entirely, but it's likely to work its way back in, at which point you're good to go.

Unfortunately this time my luck seems to have run out, because although there is still more than enough fluid in the resevoir (more than before pushing the piston back), the pedal goes to the floor. I guess now I'm going to have to replace all the calipers. I have all the parts, even the hoses, but I didn't want to do this. The reason they all have to be replaced, not just bled is, as you will see if you search the site, there aren't many (any that I can recall) happy endings to stuck bleeder screw stories. Even if I get the rears to work as they are I probably should do all four corners completely as originally intended. Having the rears working better than the fronts might be very bad in a panic stop on wet or slippery roads.

I have new bearings for the fronts also. In the three years I've had the car it's been up to the hubs in water twice, so it probably should have new grease at the very least. When I drove a cab I at least twice had the experience of driving through high water. Weeks later the garage would report having to replace the hubs...

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Raydar
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Report this Post03-25-2012 10:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 85 SE VIN 9:
...
Unfortunately this time my luck seems to have run out, because although there is still more than enough fluid in the resevoir (more than before pushing the piston back), the pedal goes to the floor...


That'll happen until the calipers take up the slack. If you depress the pedal a few times, you should be good.
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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post03-25-2012 10:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ooooo! I did pump some, but I will surely try again!
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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post03-25-2012 08:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well - lots of pumping shows no leaks, no detectible loss of fluid, but no detectible increase in pedal force. The driver's side caliper (and rotor, for that matter) look much newer than the passenger side and it might be possible to bleed that side. The bleeder screw on that side is not galled to the caliper like the passenger side. It's been over thirty years, but the pedal feels like the Volvo I did the rear brakes on. Pump and pump, but no brakes = time to bleed.

I opened the rewevoir to add fluid and found the rubber cover was sort of sucked in over the rear part and fluid on the top of it. It wasn't like that before I did the passenger side and tried pumping the pedal.

I'll soak the screw in PB blaster and try it next weekend. Maybe I'll pick up some more speed bleeders or a bleed kit.
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Report this Post03-26-2012 01:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KhwClick Here to Email KhwSend a Private Message to KhwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Curious... If you were replacing the rotors, why not just grind the lip off and slide the caliper off like normal? I had the same kind of thing happen to the rear drums on my old Nissan Pickup back in the early 90's. I got a die grinder with a cut-off wheel and just cut the drums in half since I was replacing them anyways.

N/M: I just noticed you used a grinding stone and drill to do the same thing. Honestly, that's the easiest thing to do if your replacing the rotors anyways.

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 03-26-2012).]

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firejo24
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Report this Post03-26-2012 03:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for firejo24Send a Private Message to firejo24Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I’m always a little shocked how little respect people give to the single most important system on any car, the brakes. If any other system in the car has a failure you can always “step on the brakes”. They should be in good working order at all times.
So with that, several things comes to mind. First, when you put the clamp on the caliper and destroyed that clamp, you also destroyed that caliper (the piston assembly). The parking brake system on Fieros is not a great design and one of the week parts is the “frailness” of the piston assembly. The piston is not designed to be compressed without either being turned or the parking brake lever removed (the factory recommended way). Also, there simply isn’t enough clearance to allow the seal to come out. If it does, it’s bad. However you’ve replace the rear calipers so were good there. With that said, you said something about not having a working parking brake and it’s the parking brake system that keeps the caliper properly adjusted. I strongly recommend fixing that system and go through the factory process for adjusting the rear brakes. Next, if you can’t bleed the brakes because the bleeder screws are frozen in the calipers, replace the calipers. If the bleeder screws are frozen the odds are that the rest of the caliper is not “100%” plus bleeding is a pretty important process to be able to do and yes having rears stronger than fronts is dangerous. Finally, when bleeding, if you depress the master cylinder more than an inch or so you’ve probably damaged it. Corrosion builds up inside the master cylinders bore where the seals don’t normally travel past and when you bleed the brakes by pushing the master cylinder down you push the seals past the corrosion and damage them. A very common problem. Best method is a pressure bleeder but I’m guessing you don’t have one so next best is pumping the brake pedal no more than an inch or so and just crack the bleeders for a split second. It takes a lot of repetition but it does work well. Some people like the vacuum bleeder system but I’ve not found it to work very well.
I don’t want to sound harsh but I’d hate to see you get hurt because the brakes weren’t up to full performance.
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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post04-04-2012 10:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I looked at some reviews of new Fieros - about the best they could do was 60 to 0 in 150 feet. When I see reviews of new cars I don't consider them unless they're under 130, really 120. The idea of a single piston caliper seems rediculous to me. My first car was a Volvo, even the rear calipers had two opposing pistons, the fronts had four - on two circuits. I suspect most single piston brakes are usually only working on one side because the sliders are stuck. I don't depend on my brakes. I'm always planning ahead to minimize use of the brakes, they're for when plans go awry.

Anyway. The parts are all installed for the rears, but so far no luck on getting a hard pedal and no luck getting the bleeder screws to turn. I wire-brushed and PB-Blasted the driver's side screw and used my impact wrench with a 10mm socket to try to vibrate it loose. I run it in both directions, then wire-brush and soak again. It hasn't worked yet, but other bolts and fasteners seem to have responded well to this treatment eventually.

I would agree the clamping with excessive force should have damaged the piston, but now it works, before it didn't.
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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post05-30-2012 07:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Finally got bleeder screw to turn. Another dose of PB Blaster and another hit with the impact wrench didn't do it, so I used a big ratchet with a 10 mm socket. Soon I had the screw all the way out and replaced with a speed bleeder attached to a piece of aquarium hose and a large frosting container. Then I pumped short strokes as recommended. And pumped. And pumped. Checked for bubbles. Added fluid. Pumped. Pumped some more. This went on until the container was full and my patience was shot. The bubbles may be gone, but still no resistance from the pedal.

How come I see bubbles flowing up? I hope that means the bubbles are moving within the fluid. Being speed bleeders aren't the bleeder screws supposed to prevent fluid from going back in? When I see no more bubbles and tighten the bleeder screw that's when the pedal should be hard, correct? If not go on to the other wheel correct?

The setup:



Tiny bubbles:

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Riceburner98
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Report this Post05-30-2012 10:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Riceburner98Click Here to Email Riceburner98Send a Private Message to Riceburner98Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If the threads on the speed bleeders don't seal perfectly with the caliper threads, you can actually suck air in through them when you release the pedal.. Not saying that's definitely your problem, but it did happen to me. Some people put some thick grease around the exposed threads where they meet the caliper to prevent this. I'd think with that small of bubbles though you'd have some pedal feel by now? At least something..

I'm replacing my entire braking system in a few weekends, (stainless lines, new master / booster / everything) can't wait to bleed all that! Good luck!
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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post05-31-2012 04:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The bleeders have some stuff on the threads, but I didn't see the grease idea until I looked at a video afterwards. Nope still no feel. I really don't know how air got in to begin with. I only changed the pads. I did have to do a lot of pushing the piston in and out and lost some fluid, especially on the driver's side. The driver's side is the one I'm bleeding. The other side may be an even bigger challenge. That caliper seems older and the bleeder screw even tighter. I guess I should be happy fluid came out. Many people get to this point and find the hoses have collapsed and no fluid comes out when they open the bleeder. I know I'm lucky to get the bleeder open. So often people end up breaking them and having to replace the calipers. I have new calipers and hoses on hand, but the weather is supposed to be bad for the rest of my days off this week so that's not an attractive option. Doing everything may be the best way to go. Look at this hose connection:

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Riceburner98
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Report this Post05-31-2012 07:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Riceburner98Click Here to Email Riceburner98Send a Private Message to Riceburner98Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ouch... That's why I ended up replacing my hard lines with the stainless kit. The tubes looked like that and just twisted off with the nuts. Good thing too I guess, when I was removing the old ones I found a leak where the line had rusted through up under the spare tire tub. Time to move to Arizona or some place where they don't have the white stuff in the winter!
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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post05-31-2012 09:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Exactly. It looks like someone tried to pull that clip doesn't it? It wasn't me. So far I've only sprayed them with PB Blaster. This car has spent its entire life in northern Illinois. How long does it take to replace the lines?
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Report this Post05-31-2012 09:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sirtimelessClick Here to visit sirtimeless's HomePageSend a Private Message to sirtimelessEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
To do an entire stainless swap is only a couple hour project.

The biggest issue i had was the "Shipping bends" from the fiero store.
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Riceburner98
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Report this Post05-31-2012 09:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Riceburner98Click Here to Email Riceburner98Send a Private Message to Riceburner98Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The bends weren't so bad on mine... I bought them probably 8-10 years ago though, maybe they've changed? If you do replace them, even if it looks possible with the spare tire tub in there - *take it out*! Much easier even though it seems like a pain to remove the tub. (though I always get fiberglass splinters!) I struggled with the lines for an hour trying to avoid removing it but it wasn't worth it. (also there's a metal ring that surrounds the rubber grommet - it unbolts. I was about to cut it off when I found the bolts through the rust..) At least with all stainless you know the brake hardware will stay together another 30 years; just need to figure out how to stop the rest of the car from dissolving around them!
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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post05-31-2012 12:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Why couldn't they make the space frame, etc. out of something else also? Aluminum alloy, titanium, you know, something cheap and durable. The Accura NSX is aluminum. People use them for their winter cars. They still go for $25k.

Is it possible I already have the stainless lines? You see the "spring" wrap? I didn't think the original had that.

It would take me much longer than two hours for that job. Even when the lack of garage is not a factor, like rebuilding the headlights, it still took several hours to rebuild the second headlight. On the other hand I spend very little time actually working on the car.
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Report this Post05-31-2012 12:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by firejo24:

I’m always a little shocked how little respect people give to the single most important system on any car, the brakes.


Yeah, people will spend $500+ on an exhaust system to gain 3 HP, then buy the cheapest rotors and pads they can find.
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Report this Post05-31-2012 01:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Riceburner98Click Here to Email Riceburner98Send a Private Message to Riceburner98Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 85 SE VIN 9:

Why couldn't they make the space frame, etc. out of something else also? Aluminum alloy, titanium, you know, something cheap and durable. The Accura NSX is aluminum. People use them for their winter cars. They still go for $25k.

Is it possible I already have the stainless lines? You see the "spring" wrap? I didn't think the original had that.

It would take me much longer than two hours for that job. Even when the lack of garage is not a factor, like rebuilding the headlights, it still took several hours to rebuild the second headlight. On the other hand I spend very little time actually working on the car.


The original lines had the spiral wrap as well, just made of plain steel.. In my case it seemed to have trapped moisture against the line as I had a leak under the spiral wrap where it rotted through.. Aluminum frame would be nice, but who would have bought a $50k Fiero back in the '80s? You can get a nice used Elise for $25k now, the frame can be easily lifted by 2 people. But $50k+ new?

It took me longer than a few hours to do my lines, every rusted bolt you hit that won't come out adds time... That was on jackstands in a driveway.
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Report this Post05-31-2012 02:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroUteClick Here to Email FieroUteSend a Private Message to FieroUteEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Fought that Same fight on Monday. Finally got the caliper off and the piston popped out, brake fluid everywhere. Finally just went across the street and got rebuilt calipers from O'Reileys. Now the ebrake doesn't work. Ugh.

Good luck!
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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post05-31-2012 02:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Exactly why I'm trying to keep this to a minimum. I realized many years ago that many of the problems I was having were the result of previous repairs. Yesterday I may have let the fluid go down too far, meaning I have a much bigger bleeding problem ahead. Fierojo24 says I probably damaged the master cylinder seals when I started pumping the brakes to the floor. I have calipers and hoses, but I bet when I try to get the old hoses off I'm going to damage the lines. I feel very lucky I got the bleeder screw open instead of breaking it off.

The other thing I learned long ago was the decisions I made weren't bad given what I knew at the time. Therefore I spend a lot of time online learning as much as I can before tearing stuff apart. Thank god for the forum!

Riceburner: That makes sense about the lines being mild anyway and the moisture getting trapped there. Little problems like that can be hard to avoid and still harder to diagnose. I had a cab where the transmission cooler lines had rusted where a clip held water against them. They only leaked while underway. A mechanic drove it around in the shop and showed me where the fluid had come out on the floor.

Granted an aluminum frame would be expensive, but after all, it's only the space frame, not the whole car. The NSX it's the whole car, isn't it? Back in the 80's rust was a much bigger problem than it is now that they use zinc paint. I wonder how hard it would be to make a space frame or at least a cradle out of titanium or something now, in the age of CAD/CAM. There is a company that can make fasteners out of titanium if you supply the digital drawing files.

[This message has been edited by 85 SE VIN 9 (edited 05-31-2012).]

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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post06-04-2012 07:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Now a new problem. After breaking off the passenger side bleeder I put a new caliper on there and got to the point of not finding any bubbles. There was some leaking from the banjo bolt, but a couple more foot-lbs fixed that. Still pedal soft. Discovered a leak in the connection block above the passenger rear wheel.



Except for spraying some PB Blaster on it I don't recall touching that connection. Could it just have chosen this occasion to rupture? Could it just be loose somehow? Replacing the lines is not a project I intended to do right now.

By the way, here is the piston on the Advance Fenco calipers. They call them Cardone, but I think thely are actually Fenco. Anyway, look it's a metal piston!



Also, here are the pad retainers that came with the caliper. I couldn't figure out a way to use both, or either for at least an hour, I finally settled on the wire one. How are these things supposed to work? The Haynes manual said to just push them on and they'll cllick - not so.

[This message has been edited by 85 SE VIN 9 (edited 06-04-2012).]

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post06-04-2012 07:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 85 SE VIN 9:

Now a new problem. After breaking off the passenger side bleeder I put a new caliper on there and got to the point of not finding any bubbles. There was some leaking from the banjo bolt, but a couple more foot-lbs fixed that. Still pedal soft. Discovered a leak in the connection block above the passenger rear wheel.



Except for spraying some PB Blaster on it I don't recall touching that connection. Could it just have chosen this occasion to rupture? Could it just be loose somehow? Replacing the lines is not a project I intended to do right now.

By the way, here is the piston on the Advance Fenco calipers. They call them Cardone, but I think thely are actually Fenco. Anyway, look it's a metal piston!



Also, here are the pad retainers that came with the caliper. I couldn't figure out a way to use both, or either for at least an hour, I finally settled on the wire one. How are these things supposed to work? The Haynes manual said to just push them on and they'll cllick - not so.





You first install the inner pad ring retainer on the piston by aligning the tabs and rotating it so that its in the piston groove and the clips face bottom and top and . You then slip the pad into the retainer bottom first and then top. It will snap in. if it doesn't a small screwdriver on the tabs helps.

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