My goal is to get in the 11's and I remember seeing on a 1/4 list at one point people doing it with just supercharged 3800s. I liked how Akrusedx's car was turbo and he was in the 11's. So that leaves me with the question of what is easier/cheaper to reach that goal?
I don't have any welding skills but know some people that might be able to help with that. That is why I'm leaning towards the thinking that going with a sc would be easier. I'm confident in my ability to do that swap and any mods that might be needed. I can learn and do any of the mods that might be needed, it is the welding and custom piping I'm not sure about.
This wouldn't necessarily be a daily driver but I would drive it semi-regularly. So I would prefer for it to act like a daily driver since I do plan on taking it out of town on occasion.
If going the super charger route what mods would be needed? From the reading I've done so far it seems like either an xp hot cam or xpz cam(but would this be too aggressive?), an intercooler, porting out the heads and possibly the supercharger, maybe going with a gen V supercharger, springs, aluminum roller rockers(which ratio?) and not sure if anything else is needed.
If going the turbo route would be best is there anyone on here that would be able to do that install for me if I choose to go that route since I don't really feel like messing with welding and piping? I would also like to keep my trunk since I plan on taking the car out of town for the weekend every now and then.
I'm only in the research phase at the moment so this isn't something that I will be jumping on immediately till I know exactly what all of my game plan is.
How much money do you got, or are you willing to spend?
Not being sarcastic or cynical, but the dollars quickly add up. For me I've been adding things slowly, but it's always couple hundred here, couple hundred there.
I would like to keep it as cheap as possible of course but I also know that there is no such thing as free power So if it takes me time to buy everything and piece it together that is fine too. So to that affect I'm not worried about cost so much but would like the best cost to benefit ratio as possible. That is why I've ruled out going with a ls4 or any other v8. I'm also not trying to have the fastest fiero, making the 11's is perfect for me I've already had the car over 5 years and the only thing I've done to it so far is upgrading the brakes and suspension since I felt that should be done before adding power to it.
I have thought about nos but trying to go the easiest route. I know nitrous can be done safely, but then I would have to refill the bottles so it just seems avoiding it would be the easier route to take. This will be the first time I have ever done anything regarding an engine but I did buy this car to learn just how to do this sorta thing. I have a fair bit of tools so that is why I was leaning towards sticking with the sc since I'm fairly certain everything can be done using regular tools. If I turbo it, and can't get anyone to help with that, I would have to learn to weld. I have another car that is currently my daily driver so this isn't a rush job or anything so I can take my time and do things right.
currently my car is a manual but I also know with that kind of power it would be better for me to go with the 4t65ehd. I know I could go with the 6spd but I haven't read if that can be mated to the 3800 easily or not. I also know with our gear ratios I would have to be changing gears pretty fast in the 1/4 mile so it would probably be better to go with the auto. Am I wrong in this thinking?
[This message has been edited by enthashyt (edited 09-06-2011).]
Originally posted by enthashyt: currently my car is a manual but I also know with that kind of power it would be better for me to go with the 4t65ehd. I know I could go with the 6spd but I haven't read if that can be mated to the 3800 easily or not. I also know with our gear ratios I would have to be changing gears pretty fast in the 1/4 mile so it would probably be better to go with the auto. Am I wrong in this thinking?
If you want to drag race, an auto is better. But going 11s, you're not making enough power to be a problem. It doesn't take that much torque/power to go 11s in a Fiero.
Honestly, doing a turbo setup requires less welding than a 11 second supercharged car requires... Getting headers into a fiero is not really a bolt it on process.... Also, welding is not very hard, nor is getting a part mocked up and having it welded by a local. doing a "darkhorizon" turbo setup would only require you to do about 3 or 4 welds... 2 of those are quite simple.
ANY turbo setup is going to net you 11's.. supercharged setups typically need a bit of fine tuning to get perfect.. as well as a large pile of aftermarket parts.
Option 1 A 2,000 - 2,400 lb Fiero Posi rear with big sticky slicks Turbo or direct supercharger, Build/blueprinted engine, forged pistons, headers,cam etc etc.
Option 2 A 2,000 - 2,400 lb Fiero Posi rear with big sticky slicks Turbo or direct supercharger, Lots of NOS and maybe pick up the pices after a few runs.
Option 1 A 2,000 - 2,400 lb Fiero Posi rear with big sticky slicks Turbo or direct supercharger, Build/blueprinted engine, forged pistons, headers,cam etc etc.
Option 2 A 2,000 - 2,400 lb Fiero Posi rear with big sticky slicks Turbo or direct supercharger, Lots of NOS and maybe pick up the pices after a few runs.
Uhh... talk about misleading...
First off, no fiero is going to weigh 2000-2400lbs... it just isnt happening at least with any metal left on the car.
"posi" rear ends are completely meaningless in a fiero that goes straight. I have yet to find a valid argument that says they are valid in any situation in a fiero.
a "built 3800" is no stronger than a factory stock 3800.. Upgraded pistons have never gotten anyone any more reliability... 1 guy used them to up the compression ratio a bit for a large turbo setup to push over the 1100hp mark.
Option 1 A 2,000 - 2,400 lb Fiero Posi rear with big sticky slicks Turbo or direct supercharger, Build/blueprinted engine, forged pistons, headers,cam etc etc.
Option 2 A 2,000 - 2,400 lb Fiero Posi rear with big sticky slicks Turbo or direct supercharger, Lots of NOS and maybe pick up the pices after a few runs.
You don't need all that, and getting a Fiero down to 2000-2400 lbs is a feat on its own. Easiest solution would be a 200 shot of NOS on a stock Series II or III 3800 SC, with the N/A intake swapped on. If he wants to be serious about dragging the car on weekends though, he should get a 4t65e behind the engine. Not reliable, but it will put the car in the 11s if he can drive.
He doesn't need an LSD, or slicks. Mostly he needs to know how to drive a car in the 1/4 to get the fastest times the car can make, consistently. If he can't get a good launch, with a good reaction time, and run consistent times with what he has now, adding 200hp to the car may likely not get him where he wants to be.
best bet for a supercharged setup, ported SC, 2.8" pulley, meth injection or intercooler, 42.5# injectors (or 65# injectors on E85), headers, cam, tune, and about $2000-2500 worth of transmission.
Now you can make it fast cheaper than all that, but it wont last long.
Fierox I want reliable and fast, not so much worried about cheap, I can always work extra at my job. I'm already on five weeks at 12 hours a day with only two days off as is with at least three or four more days to tack on before I get anther three off. Then another 14 on lol. That is how determined to save up for this I am. I also don't want to be having to fix broken parts from too much power so I want to do it right the first time so I can enjoy my car for many years.
I guess I better be willing to learn to weld. I've watched people do it plenty and it doesn't look that hard and more and more it is sounding like going with a turbo setup is better. I'm under the impression that going with a turbo also gives a better power bad to get a better acceleration(to pull into traffic fast if I have to). Another goal is a coworker is talking about buying a vette and likes to insult my choice in making a fast fiero so I want to show him what the fiero can do I know he can always make the vette faster but I should still be able to have a better dollar to speed ratio than him.
Originally posted by fieroX: best bet for a supercharged setup, ported SC, 2.8" pulley, meth injection or intercooler, 42.5# injectors (or 65# injectors on E85), headers, cam, tune, and about $2000-2500 worth of transmission.
Now you can make it fast cheaper than all that, but it wont last long.
What wouldnt "last long" if you went turbo on a stock transmission?
Justin and I did stock transmission for years and years without issues running south of 11.5... Obviously the getrag has broken once or twice, but it has seen its fair share of abuse... My 65e is still in my other fiero ready to go for 10s next year.. it cost me $40 from a junkyard in 05.
My axles are also cavi axles, which have never given me issues.
The L67/L32 motor in stock form has been proven over 700whp in abuse seen over the course of years. I personally have done it at slightly lower power levels without a single engine failure.
since ill be starting my 3800 swap after my 4.9 issues are cleared up i gotta ask, not to hi-jack ur thread here and its relevant to the discussion, can you just take a 3800 block rebuild it with performance parts and get 700hp overnight if you have the money or is that really something you have to work up to?
since ill be starting my 3800 swap after my 4.9 issues are cleared up i gotta ask, not to hi-jack ur thread here and its relevant to the discussion, can you just take a 3800 block rebuild it with performance parts and get 700hp overnight if you have the money or is that really something you have to work up to?
sigh....
To build a 700hp 3800 all you need to do is go to a junkyard, pay $300 for a L67 block... put a ST5 cam in it, put a T67-T71 turbo on it, put some sort of race gas in the tank and a decent intercooler on the turbo.
For $2000, anyone can build a 700hp 3800.... Why more people do not do this is basically mindboggling to me and my friends in town here.
What wouldnt "last long" if you went turbo on a stock transmission?
Clutches and chain mostly.
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Originally posted by darkhorizon:
sigh....
To build a 700hp 3800 all you need to do is go to a junkyard, pay $300 for a L67 block... put a ST5 cam in it, put a T67-T71 turbo on it, put some sort of race gas in the tank and a decent intercooler on the turbo.
For $2000, anyone can build a 700hp 3800.... Why more people do not do this is basically mindboggling to me and my friends in town here.
You don't need all that, and getting a Fiero down to 2000-2400 lbs is a feat on its own. Easiest solution would be a 200 shot of NOS on a stock Series II or III 3800 SC, with the N/A intake swapped on. If he wants to be serious about dragging the car on weekends though, he should get a 4t65e behind the engine. Not reliable, but it will put the car in the 11s if he can drive.
He doesn't need an LSD, or slicks. Mostly he needs to know how to drive a car in the 1/4 to get the fastest times the car can make, consistently. If he can't get a good launch, with a good reaction time, and run consistent times with what he has now, adding 200hp to the car may likely not get him where he wants to be.
Now I didnt say he would have much lwft after getting the car down to 2K+ lbs. So you don't need a LSD -posi rear- for the drag strip! Gee, whish I had know that when I raced Mopars. Stupid me, I thought the 1/4 mile was all about getting the power to ground. So my dana rear was just a waste of money?
You don't need all that, and getting a Fiero down to 2000-2400 lbs is a feat on its own. Easiest solution would be a 200 shot of NOS on a stock Series II or III 3800 SC, with the N/A intake swapped on. If he wants to be serious about dragging the car on weekends though, he should get a 4t65e behind the engine. Not reliable, but it will put the car in the 11s if he can drive.
He doesn't need an LSD, or slicks. Mostly he needs to know how to drive a car in the 1/4 to get the fastest times the car can make, consistently. If he can't get a good launch, with a good reaction time, and run consistent times with what he has now, adding 200hp to the car may likely not get him where he wants to be.
Now I didnt say he would have much left after getting the car down to 2K+ lbs. I think you can get a Fiero down to close to 2,400lbs if you gutted fully for racing.
So you don't need a LSD -posi rear- for the drag strip! Gee, wish I had know that when I raced Mopars. Stupid me, I thought the 1/4 mile was all about getting the power to ground. So my dana rear was just a waste of money? My cuda would gone just as fast with just ONE wheel doing the work, hmmmm
Oh, I should have been more spcific with the forged pistons as in 11:1 or 12:1
[This message has been edited by Francis T (edited 09-07-2011).]
Originally posted by Francis T: Now I didnt say he would have much left after getting the car down to 2K+ lbs. I think you can get a Fiero down to close to 2,400lbs if you gutted fully for racing.
So you don't need a LSD -posi rear- for the drag strip! Gee, wish I had know that when I raced Mopars. Stupid me, I thought the 1/4 mile was all about getting the power to ground. So my dana rear was just a waste of money? My cuda would gone just as fast with just ONE wheel doing the work, hmmmm
Oh, I should have been more spcific with the forged pistons as in 11:1 or 12:1
And I wish Fieros had the same suspension layout as a 'Cuda. I'm sorry, but your Cuda didn't have 500lbs of engine sitting right on top of the drive wheels using a transaxle. All cars aren't the same, or people would have had 9 second Fieros a long time ago. If you want to put a dana in a Fiero and move the engine up front though, that's a different story. But afaik, we are talking about stock suspension setups here. And an LSD isn't going to do much for you in a Fiero, except maybe make it easier for you to break an axle in some situations. Now, for a road course, I might recommend one, depending on the course and how fast your car actually is.
And if you'd read the OP, he said it would also be a daily driver, so I"m pretty sure that gutting it to be a race car isn't an option.
Doing all the work you suggested is going way overboard to hit 11s in a 3800 Fiero.
Originally posted by Francis T: Now I didnt say he would have much left after getting the car down to 2K+ lbs. I think you can get a Fiero down to close to 2,400lbs if you gutted fully for racing.
So you don't need a LSD -posi rear- for the drag strip! Gee, wish I had know that when I raced Mopars. Stupid me, I thought the 1/4 mile was all about getting the power to ground. So my dana rear was just a waste of money? My cuda would gone just as fast with just ONE wheel doing the work, hmmmm
The OP said he wanted a street car.
Your Cuda had a solid rear axle. That setup lifts one side due to the longitudinal torque reaction. The Fiero plants both tires equally. LSD not really necessary.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 09-07-2011).]
Your solid rear axle, front engined, dinosaur car required a posi... A mid engined, transaxle, irs car does not.
Honestly saying that a fiero needs a LSD is about as stupid as telling drifters that open diffs are the best way to go.
Not being sarcastic this time, but is there something wrong with my 86 Turboed 4spd tranax: I've never been able to lay down two solid burnout lines like I did with my cuda? It just wants to send one wheel up in smoke.
Not being sarcastic this time, but is there something wrong with my 86 Turboed 4spd tranax: I've never been able to lay down two solid burnout lines like I did with my cuda? It just wants to send one wheel up in smoke.
Probably your crappy tires. Might be your alignment or suspension if there is less contact patch on one side. I've never done a one wheel peel in my fiero.
I wrote out a really long essay about 3800's and how it affects performance and reliability for each second off a stock 1/4 mile time you want....but I'm sure everyone knows the pro's and con's already.
FieroX - I haven't seen any new videos online in a while, hope all is well.
[This message has been edited by gtxbullet (edited 09-08-2011).]
Please dont be mislead- it takes way more than $2000.00 to build a 700hp 3800sc in a Fiero...... That statement is just pure rubish. First off - dont just go down to a junkyard and buy a $300.00 motor. Your just asking for trouble in the long run, buy from a known source that sells known good motors. You might get a decent motor and a decent turbo for $2000.00, but you still need gaskets, injectors, fuel system, axles, (long list) -etc. Unless you get lucky your gonna end up with a motor with more than 120k miles, so if your gonna boost it and want it to be dependable and stay together it needs to be gone through completely. Take your time and do it right, its the difference between doing 11's once or doing 11's all day long....
In the end- as mentioned before it really all comes down to the transmission. The transmission is the week link in all performance Fiero builds. Your going to need to invest just as much in the tranmission (perhaps even more) than the motor if your wanting to be going to the track alot. If your just building a mild street car thats a different story. Sadly thats the facts....
Please dont be mislead- it takes way more than $2000.00 to build a 700hp 3800sc in a Fiero...... That statement is just pure rubish. First off - dont just go down to a junkyard and buy a $300.00 motor. Your just asking for trouble in the long run, buy from a known source that sells known good motors. You might get a decent motor and a decent turbo for $2000.00, but you still need gaskets, injectors, fuel system, axles, (long list) -etc. Unless you get lucky your gonna end up with a motor with more than 120k miles, so if your gonna boost it and want it to be dependable and stay together it needs to be gone through completely. Take your time and do it right, its the difference between doing 11's once or doing 11's all day long....
In the end- as mentioned before it really all comes down to the transmission. The transmission is the week link in all performance Fiero builds. Your going to need to invest just as much in the tranmission (perhaps even more) than the motor if your wanting to be going to the track alot. If your just building a mild street car thats a different story. Sadly thats the facts....
Laugh out loud. I'm sure you are a great customer to local businesses.
Laugh out loud. I'm sure you are a great customer to local businesses.
What do you mean??? I own 2 local retail business', and have invested in multiple local real estate properites. Im a member of the local Chamber of Commerce andBetter Business Bureau, however I still dont see how this has anything to do with what I stated?? Im just stateing the facts, from someone who has built a 10 second Fiero, has a had a 3800sc car, has personally owned 6 fieros, currently owns a 10 second drag car, yada-yada, where I spend my money has no bearing on the subject.......
What do you mean??? I own 2 local retail business', and have invested in multiple local real estate properites. Im a member of the local Chamber of Commerce andBetter Business Bureau, however I still dont see how this has anything to do with what I stated?? Im just stateing the facts, from someone who has built a 10 second Fiero, has a had a 3800sc car, has personally owned 6 fieros, currently owns a 10 second drag car, yada-yada, where I spend my money has no bearing on the subject.......
What tranny did you have in the 10 sec Fiero?
A 11 sec Fiero can get by on a Stock 465e-HD with one stock Fiero axle without breaking anything. I have run multiple (25+) under 12.20 passes and the main thing that keeps me out of the 11's is the hot weather in Texas. I'm sure I can run high 11's all day and not break anything because the difference between a 12.0 and a 11.9 is (Driver mod, cold weather, minor tweak to Tune)
Remember we are talking 11 sec and not 9's in which I would then agree that any stock tranny may not be up to the task.
A 11 sec Fiero can get by on a Stock 465e-HD with one stock Fiero axle without breaking anything. I have run multiple (25+) under 12.20 passes and the main thing that keeps me out of the 11's is the hot weather in Texas. I'm sure I can run high 11's all day and not break anything because the difference between a 12.0 and a 11.9 is (Driver mod, cold weather, minor tweak to Tune)
Remember we are talking 11 sec and not 9's in which I would then agree that any stock tranny may not be up to the task.
Remember as well that a turbo car is going to be making the magic happen after the 1-2 shift.... which is where 99% of the problems leave you... at that point you just have to cross your fingers that 3rd gear holds. My 330ft times when I was running 11.0-11.3 were probably no faster than yours.
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its the difference between doing 11's once or doing 11's all day long....
I only did it for years... and I am STILL using the trans/ $200 motor in another car...
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Take your time and do it right,
I have a few links to 3800 fiero owners that "did it right" only to end up with a broken car in their driveway.. more than once...
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First off - dont just go down to a junkyard and buy a $300.00 motor. Your just asking for trouble in the long run
Tell that to my $200 motor I bought 5 years ago.
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You might get a decent motor and a decent turbo for $2000.00, but you still need gaskets, injectors, fuel system, axles, (long list) -etc.
I got a decent motor and turbo for under $300, gaskets, fluids, scrap metal, welding wire, electrical tape, wastegate, blowoff valve, intercooler, intercooler pump, intercooler lines, pcm, pcm tuning package, a 1988 fiero driven home, a $40 4t65ehd transmission, a cavi CV axle, wiring harness, wideband, new struts, new cradle/control arm bushings, boost gauge, wideband gauge, antilag, fuel pump, fuel lines all cost me less than $2000.
Sorry you are doing have been doing it wrong, but I posted my results on this years and years ago... and to this day I have never seen anyone try to emulate what I did. Either I am just that amazing, people dont believe it can be done so they dont attempt it, or nobody cares, I dont know... but it seems there are plenty of people out there like you that are going to talk up a storm about how it CANT be done without even attempting it?
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really all comes down to the transmission. The transmission is the week link in all performance Fiero builds.
Maybe your builds... but to this day I have yet to even have a transmission that acted funny, let alone have a transmission break on me... I have a very nice race built transmission in my drag car right now, but my other fiero still retains my 5 year old $40 junkyard transmission, and it was plenty happy on 19psi of boost running 10s last year.
Sadly, THESE are the facts, and your crap is just stupid speculation and naysaying.
A 11 sec Fiero can get by on a Stock 465e-HD with one stock Fiero axle without breaking anything. I have run multiple (25+) under 12.20 passes and the main thing that keeps me out of the 11's is the hot weather in Texas. I'm sure I can run high 11's all day and not break anything because the difference between a 12.0 and a 11.9 is (Driver mod, cold weather, minor tweak to Tune)
Remember we are talking 11 sec and not 9's in which I would then agree that any stock tranny may not be up to the task.
I had a reverse rotation th425 - do a search under "cardealer" that is me....
OK- Dark your the man, your the God, your the master...... I guess thats what you need to hear..... But for the majority of other Fiero owners that drag race consistently with more than 450hp/450tq have to end up putting money into their stock transmissions. If your having success with using junkyard motors and transmissions well Great for you, but you have to understand not everybody is the man, the God, the master, like you. Hence the OP of this thread, If he is seeking advice how to get into 11's with a 3800sc- I doubt has all the insight and greatness as you. The odds of him getting a junkyard motor and building 700hp setup in his Fiero with $2000.00 is slim. He stated he wasnt really that concearned with the money and wanted dependablity, so it only makes sense for him to do things right.
I will still stand by with what I said- Get a motor from someone that has a good reputation selling motors, if its got high mileage and your going to boost it (turbo) go through it. It dont cost that much more to do it right. I have seen too many people buy junkyard motors and after getting them installed they got something wrong with them. Unless you have a good relationship with the place you got it from you most likey not get your money back....
But for the majority of other Fiero owners that drag race consistently with more than 450hp/450tq have to end up putting money into their stock transmissions.
Who? Other than fierox, i dont know of anyone else that even attempts it?
Who? Other than fierox, i dont know of anyone else that even attempts it?
Ok your right, Im wrong... There you go everybody- you to can have a 700hp Fiero for $2000.00 and a $40.00 junkyard transmission.... And it will never break down.....
Sadly, THESE are the facts, and your crap is just stupid speculation and naysaying.
I know this is the internet but sheesh mang, hold your fire. Frendly fire can claim unintended victims. Kinda like a drive by where the intended target gets away and you end up killing a innocent little girl riding her big wheel. I know you probably care less what ppl think, or feel but some of us like our freedom fries without the extra salt.
Originally posted by MstangsBware: I hope anything you are building now is better than the 4.9 you built and SOLD off on CL to TexasGT down in Houston..
So if it takes me time to buy everything and piece it together that is fine too. So to that affect I'm not worried about cost so much but would like the best cost to benefit ratio as possible. That is why I've ruled out going with a ls4 or any other v8. I'm also not trying to have the fastest fiero, making the 11's is perfect for me 
