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3400 LNJ Swap (build thread) by KaijuSenso
Started on: 09-05-2010 10:45 PM
Replies: 130 (15673 views)
Last post by: KaijuSenso on 06-22-2014 11:45 AM
KaijuSenso
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Report this Post09-05-2010 10:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well it's finally time to start working on my engine swap! I'm so excited. Basically I got a great deal on a motor so I went with it. It's the 3400 out of a 2005 Equinox rated at 185 hp and 210 ft/lbs. The plan is to attach it to my manual trans and run a tune from Sinister Performance for OBDII. I just want to start with a basic swap to get the car running until I'm out of college and can afford some performance upgrades. Every penny will hopefully be documented and pictures a plenty. The game plan is to start the tear down on my winter break in December and get it running by springtime when the snow dissapears. For now all I can offer up are a few pictures of my new motor and ask a few questions.

Here's where I found the motor, tucked away in a back corner of the shop in the Engineering building. Sadly that TDI in the foreground is in too many peices but maybe I'll try to buy it after I graduate for a Diesel Fiero.


4WD transmission was included, I plan on selling it and it should more then pay for the engine.


Its missing the Alternator and AC Compressor which I'll need to buy because I can't use the stock Fiero ones.


Took some work to get it off the loading dock but I got it home no problem.


This is the only random picture of my Fiero that I can come up with at the moment. It's a red 1986 GT with the 4 speed manual.



Just a few questions before I dig in. Can I flip the intake around 180 degrees so the throttle body points towards the driver's side for the airbox? I've seen it done on other motors. Does anyone know specifically if this oil pan is compatible with the Fiero cradle? If not can I just swap on the oil pan from say a Grand Am or is there more work involved? Thanks for any input! I'll try to get a spreadsheet going of the build cost and pictures of what I buy or work on.

[This message has been edited by KaijuSenso (edited 02-11-2013).]

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Joseph Upson
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Report this Post09-06-2010 01:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You're going to need to shop the 60 degree forum's store for swap parts.

You'll probably want to swap that intake manifold plenum or both parts for the earlier design if it is compatible or the entire intake for a 3500 unless the height is about the same as that found on those two options and there is no clearance problem.

Whether you can turn that particular manifold around will depend on your clearance at both ends of the block in doing so as I haven't seen any swaps with that particular intake design.

Oil pan interference is on the 88 cradle.

The 2005 3400 does not have the traditional 7x crank trigger wheel from what I recall meaning you will need the external crank trigger system from the 60 degree store, unless you intend to use the O.E. PCM which would be a chore.
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joshua riedl
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Report this Post09-06-2010 08:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for joshua riedlSend a Private Message to joshua riedlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Check for a crank sensor on the crank pulley. Looks like it doesn't have it. If not using an older obd2 with a throttle body won't be possible or at least won't allow SFI. 60 degreev6 has a chip for obd1 and a 3400. Would probaly be the cheapest way to go unless you swap the timing cover and crank pulley. For what it's worth I had a running 3400/5speed and it ran great. It may be worth the trouble to go obd2.
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Report this Post11-29-2010 09:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Went to pull a part Black Friday to get some pieces parts. Got the intake and throttle body from a 2000 Alero for roughly $60.



Had a few questions about the crank trigger also. Do these 60 degree V6's have 2 sensors? One on the crank and one behind the harmonic balance? The reason I ask is I'm wondering if the external 7x crank trigger from WOT tech is sufficient to run a 2000 OBD2 computer. Ryan from Sinister Performance was reading something about it in the 2005 Equinox service manual. Here is what it said. 60degreeV6 says this motor has the 24x trigger. any thoughts?

 
quote
The crankshaft reluctor wheel is mounted in the middle of the crankshaft. The wheel is comprised of three 120-degree segments. Each segment represents a pair of cylinders at top dead center (TDC), and is further divided into six 20-degree segments. Within each 20-degree segment is a notch of 2 different sizes. Each 120-degree segment has a unique pattern of notches. This is known as pulse width encoding. This pulse width encoding pattern allows the powertrain control module (PCM) to quickly recognize which pair of cylinders are at TDC. The reluctor wheel is also a dual track, or mirror image, design. This means there is an additional wheel pressed against the first wheel with a gap of equal size to each notch of the mating wheel. When one sensing element of the crankshaft position (CKP) sensor is reading a notch, the other is reading a set of teeth. The resulting signals are then converted into a digital square wave output by the circuitry within the CKP sensor.

[This message has been edited by KaijuSenso (edited 02-11-2013).]

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joshua riedl
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Report this Post11-29-2010 10:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for joshua riedlSend a Private Message to joshua riedlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes the older engine has two sensors. I've talked to darth about this and he says that the only reason for the sensor on the balancer is for misfire detection. However, I would take caution and make sure a case/crank relearn will be possible. You'll need it done regardless with the engine swap but I wonder if it'll be possible without the sensor. there are still two choices. OBD1 with a 60degreev6 chip or get an early 3400 timing cover and balancer. I vote for keeping obd2.
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Report this Post11-30-2010 08:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So basically all the headaches of a 3500 without the extra 20HP? What a bugger. At least that AWD system is worth some money so you can sell it and fund the extra parts needed.

Interesting thread! Is the lower intake the same or was it changed along with the upper, I wonder...

As far as the crank sensors go, the latest version of DIS has a simplified ignition control module base that basically provides the ignitors for the coils... the ECM does all calculations for the ignition timing. The previous version of DIS provided everything except for timing advance which was the only thing controlled by the ECM. That is why the earlier motors had the crank position sensor connected the ICM and the late models are connected to the ECM. The reason they only have one reluctor wheel is that the more complex wheel in the late 3400 and 3500 provides all signaling provided by both of the old.

[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 11-30-2010).]

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KaijuSenso
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Report this Post11-30-2010 01:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the replies

@ joshua
Would changing the timing cover and balancer to an early 3400 add a "replacement" for the crank trigger I have?

@ carbon
Ya it's not a 3500 but this 3400 has under a few thousand miles and turned out to be free! That's worth its weight in gold in my book, an unmolested engine free of charge. Selling the trans that came with it should pay for most of the swap
About the lower intake, I've only read that the upper intake was the only thing changed but we'll find out after my Finals next week when I start merging 3400 parts.


So overall I want to run a 2000ish OBD2 so will I be able to add the sensors from the early 3400s to make the computer happy?
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Report this Post11-30-2010 05:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a 3400 sitting on my garage floor waiting for me to do something with it as well... I am looking forward to your progress.
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joshua riedl
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Report this Post11-30-2010 08:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for joshua riedlSend a Private Message to joshua riedlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Adding the older timing cover will give you a 24x signal. You'll still need the 7x signal from wot-tech. Or use the throttle by wire setup. If Darth is doing your tune shoot him an email and see if you can do a crank relearn without the 24x. If so you may not have to go through the trouble.
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Report this Post11-30-2010 09:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Your alternator mount appears to be the one used for the AD244 alternator found on the GMC/Chevy trucks. It is a very popular upgrade referring mainly to the 130 and 140 Amp versions. GM switched to PCM control on this series alternator around 2005. Stay away from the alternator that is specific for this engine and any series that only has Two pins in the regulator plug on the alternator, that indicates it is a PCM controlled alternator and it will only operate in limp mode without the PCM controlling it.

I upgraded to the AD244 series on my engine and it puts out very good voltage at idle which is one of the characteristics the S10 guys with high output stereos like about it. They also state that it puts out 100 amps at idle instead of needing additional rpm. NAPA offers a 200 amp version of it.
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KaijuSenso
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Report this Post12-14-2010 01:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok so I did some fiddling with the upper intakes today.


Just a random picture of underneath the LNJ's upper intake manifold if anyone is curious.


Lower intake looks the same to me, fuel rails are different of course.


The old generation upper intake hit the fuel rail at that circular thing between them so i tried flipping around the LNJ intake out of curiosity.




it seems like it will fit no problem once i relocate the DIS coil packs




So now what I have to decide if I want to switch over to the first gen fuel rails and injectors or stick with the stock LNJ intake that might be too tall to fit under the deck lid.

[This message has been edited by KaijuSenso (edited 02-11-2013).]

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Report this Post12-23-2010 04:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Got a present in the mail today! Pretty excited to test fit them after the holidays.

[This message has been edited by KaijuSenso (edited 02-11-2013).]

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Tstang429
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Report this Post12-23-2010 07:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tstang429Send a Private Message to Tstang429Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Good luck hope you dont have to many intake issues.
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KaijuSenso
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Report this Post12-31-2010 05:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Once again the plan is to run this engine using a 2000ish OBDII program. This 2005 engine that I have a 24x crank sensor. (it's the sensor directly behind the balancer correct?) So does anyone have any thoughts on swapping the timing cover from a 2000ish LA1 3400 to gain that sensor behind the balancer? In theory this is just a 60 degree V6 so most parts should be interchangeable? The idea is to add the external 7x sensor from WOT tech either way. Here's the best picture of the timing cover i have at the moment.

[This message has been edited by KaijuSenso (edited 02-11-2013).]

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KaijuSenso
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Report this Post01-01-2011 09:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Finally got the car into the shop! Just have the cradle bolts to deal with to drop the motor. Decided to soak them in PB Blaster and call it a night. Here are some random pictures.









If you notice I was all ready to use one of our lifts at work but not being a mechanic, couldn't figure out how to safely lift the car while avoiding the cradle so it could be lowered down. Decided to go with the common route of lifting the car off the motor.

[This message has been edited by KaijuSenso (edited 02-11-2013).]

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KaijuSenso
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Report this Post01-08-2011 09:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Finally got the motor out a few days ago. Got kicked out of the shop (I guess they didn't understand not having a rear end to move the car around with) so we towed it to our storage lot and I dropped the cradle in the snow. Luckily only one cradle bolt was seized so I cut it at the shop before hand. I used a standard Pallet with two, four caster dollies underneath. Each dolly claims to hold 600 pounds. Not sure where we got them from but I assume Home Depot.





For anyone curious, to lift the car off the motor, I decided to go with the wooden 4x4 placed along the bottom of the car where the jacking points are. Just used our floor jack from there and easily got the car high enough to clear the struts. There was even more lift to get if needed and here's a picture showing how close the front bumper of the car was to the ground once I slid the cradle out.



Sadly school is starting on the 10th so I'll only have weekends to start piecing together the 3400. I picked up a wiring harness and computer from a 2001 Alero and I still plan on getting fuel rails and I also hear I'll need a matching Cam sensor.

[This message has been edited by KaijuSenso (edited 02-11-2013).]

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post01-09-2011 02:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The CASE Learn can't be done with the 24x crank sensor missing. But is it really needed? LA1 OBD2 PCMs may be able to run this engine fine (and keep it running in SFI) even with a missing 24x crank sensor signal. My information says the 24x crank sensors on the LA1 engines were only used for misfire detection. The information goes on to say the 7x sensor was used for fuel control (pulsing the injectors) and for ignition timing. Other (web) sources say the 24x sensor was used by the PCM to enhance resolution so the PCM could "more precisely control ignition timing". I do not know if that is true or not. However, I did finish a 99 3100 SFI OBD2 swap in my Dad's Fiero last fall. And as soon as the weather gets warmer and the snow and salt are off the roads, I do plan to unplug the 24x crank sensor and see if it affects fuel economy, performance, or drivability. I'll have to get back to you guys on this after I have run those tests.

The 2007-09 Equinox 3400 LNJ ECM is supported and can be tuned using HP Tuners, for anyone who wants to know. The 05-06 LNJ ECM's are not currently supported. I also cannot tell you if the LNJ ECM can be used with any other transmission than what came with it in an Equinox without issues. While HP Tuners supports a few LNJ applications, it does not appear as though many people are doing anything - custom tuning / or swap wise - with them. So there's not much information out there as to whether or not VATS is going to be an issue, or if using other transmissions is going to be an issue or not when using these Equinox ECMs.

Can the 7730 ECM be used with this engine? Sure. But I think the OBD2 PCM has a lot more to offer when it comes to making the engine perform the best and get the best fuel economy. There's just that question of whether or not the 24x sensor is actually needed for more than just misfire detection... I'll know more after trying to run an OBD2 3100 or LA1 3400 without it.

-ryan

------------------
OVERKILL IS UNDERRATED

Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions & more | www.gmtuners.com

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 01-09-2011).]

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joshua riedl
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Report this Post01-09-2011 10:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for joshua riedlSend a Private Message to joshua riedlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
On my 3400 swap I had a slight hesitation during normal part throttle driving. The crank learn procedure cured it, although it took 3 trips to 2 dealerships to find someone who knew what I was talking about so it must not be commonly done.
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Report this Post01-09-2011 02:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by joshua riedl:

On my 3400 swap I had a slight hesitation during normal part throttle driving. The crank learn procedure cured it, although it took 3 trips to 2 dealerships to find someone who knew what I was talking about so it must not be commonly done.


The question still remains whether or not the PCM can be custom programmed to work around any potential issues of not having the CASE Learn done and not having a 24x sensor installed. I'll find out for sure on this 3100 swap I did in a few months, if not earlier on another car.
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Report this Post02-02-2011 12:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just ordered hopefully the last little trinkets I need to convert my LNJ engine over to the previous generation 3100/3400.

$125 custom 1998 Monte Carlo pcm - manual transmission, remove dtc's, performance tune
$150 1998 monte carlo 3100 wiring harness
$150 crank trigger kit
$75 3400 fuel rail and injectors with wiring
$50 cam position sensor
$50 crank position sensor
$60 coil packs/ignition control module w/ bracket
$40 machined ECT sensor for cylinder head
$20 pulley, pedestal for Power Steering idler.

This all comes to around $720 and if you started with an LA1 3400 in the first place, you would only need the PCM with tune, and wiring harness which might cost you at most $300. Is this the cheapest way to do this swap? No, but it's a bit easier; I don't have to work in the freezing weather trying to pull a wiring harness at pull-a-part for example.

If you add in the headers I got from Trueleo (with custom D ports for aluminum heads) being $525 and the upper intake and throttle body being $60, I'm sitting at about $1305 for the parts I need for a basic LNJ swap. This doesn't include all the suspension components and aluminum cradle bushings I got, just the things needed for my engine. Looks like a lot looking back on it.

Remember though, I was able to find this few thousand mile engine and trans combo for cheap (free!) and that's why I didn't go the easier route of an LA1 or even 3800 for that matter. A quick search at car-part.com shows the places around me want well over $500 for a LA1 with over 100k miles. My choice of exhaust upped the expensive a lot too but the idea was to have the stock routed exhaust that will sound good and hopefully give some performance gains but if you stick with the stock manifolds you can set up a short basic exhaust to save some money.

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Report this Post02-02-2011 12:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Did you not want to keep the newer style injectors and returnless system? A bypass adustable fuel pressure regulator is available for about what the 3400 rail assembly cost you and it's not that difficult to adapt.
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KaijuSenso
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Report this Post02-02-2011 12:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I couldn't use the LNJ fuel rail with the LA1 upper intake (they don't clear each other) and the LNJ upper intake is way to tall to clear the Fiero decklid (and I didn't want to cut a hole for a scoop)
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Report this Post02-02-2011 01:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by KaijuSenso:
I couldn't use the LNJ fuel rail with the LA1 upper intake (they don't clear each other) and the LNJ upper intake is way to tall to clear the Fiero decklid (and I didn't want to cut a hole for a scoop)


Forgot you ran into that problem.
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Report this Post02-21-2011 11:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Small update, just been working on the suspension rebuild while waiting for the rest of my engine parts.

Sand Blasted one of the control arms, I love sand blasting because the parts come out so nice.


This is what I'm using to paint the suspension components and cradle. I asked my boss to buy me a small can but he just decided to buy the gallon and said I can just use some of it.


First control arm drying, looks a little glossy because it's wet so I'll get a picture of it completely dry. I might even spray paint it a Semi-Gloss black depending on how it looks dry.

[This message has been edited by KaijuSenso (edited 02-11-2013).]

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Report this Post02-21-2011 01:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by KaijuSenso:

I couldn't use the LNJ fuel rail with the LA1 upper intake (they don't clear each other) and the LNJ upper intake is way to tall to clear the Fiero decklid (and I didn't want to cut a hole for a scoop)


That would be mad JDM yo! Just a throttly body and a cone filter sticking out of the deck lid.
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Report this Post02-27-2011 11:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Did some more corrosion prevention this weekend. After I power washed all the gunk off the cradle (and it dried), I sanded it down.



This is my second Eastwood product for rust prevention.


and it turned the cradle into this


Next weekend I plan on painting it with the Rust Encapsulator, then I'm ready for putting it back together! The rest of my engine parts are supposed to be shipped out this week so hopefully I can start that soon.

[This message has been edited by KaijuSenso (edited 02-11-2013).]

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Report this Post03-07-2011 05:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just really quick, the cradle and upper spring plates painted with the Rust Encapsulator. This means I have everything I want painted and ready to go for install. About the poly bushings, the tiny amount of grease they supply (Fiero Store) isn't nearly enough to avoid squeaks right? I should just go to the local parts store and buy a tub of the Lithium Grease?

[This message has been edited by KaijuSenso (edited 02-11-2013).]

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Report this Post03-30-2011 07:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hopefully this is my last "boring" update. Last weekend I finally started assembling the cradle (boy is that more fun then taking it apart for refurbishing!)



My plan is to get the swap running with the exhaust as is. One for ease of reinstalllation because the Trueleo headers should bolt right up to where my stock exhaust left off, then I can take it to a muffler shop to get the last 1 7/8" curved pipe with flange removed and a straight pipe replacing the cat (don't need it anymore ) This will also give me a good comparison of how loud the exhaust will be. Before I had the stock manifolds, ypipe and cat with a WCF 2.25" cat back with Spintek muffler. I liked it a lot over my busted up stock muffler but now I wish I got it coated as you can see the rust that has formed from the two years of non-winter service. Looking at it now I wish I cleaned up the spindles, brakes, and axles but those will have to wait for my next upgrade, Brakes.

I just got word that the engine parts I ordered have arrived at home (finally!) so my next update should involve actual engine swap material instead of another suspension rebuild topic. I'm pretty excited and hopefully have all the electronics worked out, in theory anyway...

[This message has been edited by KaijuSenso (edited 02-11-2013).]

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Report this Post03-31-2011 07:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for craigsfiero2007Send a Private Message to craigsfiero2007Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Interesting Swap. Have you done anything to the engine internally? I have a 2007 Equinox AWD with the same engine with almost 100,000 miles. I would highly recommend that you rip that engine apart and take it to a machine shop and get the oil passage ways machined and do anything you can to improve oiling because this engine has a horrible oiling system and new lifters, depending how miles it had, those lifters are gonna be annoyingly noisey. The lifter were replaced by the dealership in my Equinox before I bought at 60,000 miles, now it has almost 100,000 miles and they need to be replaced again. I can give you a laundry list of problems I have had with this engine. Just trying to help you out and save you some heartache. Good Luck
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Tstang429
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Report this Post03-31-2011 07:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tstang429Send a Private Message to Tstang429Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
looking good. wish i would have known you were going to need all those parts. I am sending a 2001 alero to the junk yard in the next few days with the 3400. I would have gave you the car for 300 bucks. it has a blown intake. If you need any parts off the car before i take it to the yard in the next few days I live in parma.
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KaijuSenso
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Report this Post03-31-2011 10:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by craigsfiero2007:

Interesting Swap. Have you done anything to the engine internally? I have a 2007 Equinox AWD with the same engine with almost 100,000 miles. I would highly recommend that you rip that engine apart and take it to a machine shop and get the oil passage ways machined and do anything you can to improve oiling because this engine has a horrible oiling system and new lifters, depending how miles it had, those lifters are gonna be annoyingly noisey. The lifter were replaced by the dealership in my Equinox before I bought at 60,000 miles, now it has almost 100,000 miles and they need to be replaced again. I can give you a laundry list of problems I have had with this engine. Just trying to help you out and save you some heartache. Good Luck


Thanks for the info, I'll look into that when I tear this motor down for performance upgrades. It only has a few thousand miles on it right now so it should give me a few good years of service.

 
quote
Originally posted by Tstang429:

looking good. wish i would have known you were going to need all those parts. I am sending a 2001 alero to the junk yard in the next few days with the 3400. I would have gave you the car for 300 bucks. it has a blown intake. If you need any parts off the car before i take it to the yard in the next few days I live in parma.


Ya that figures! My dad lives in Parma so you're probably a hop and a skip away. I'll try to see if there are any other parts I could use asap.
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86 toy
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Report this Post04-01-2011 09:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 86 toySend a Private Message to 86 toyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I noticed you are going to use trueleo headers..do they make a 3400 specific header? Or did you just buy theheaders for a 2.8? I'm doing a la1 swap and was going to custom build headers because I was under the impression that the 2.8 headers wont fit the 3400 head.let me know

------------------
--Mark--
85 2m4 soon to be 3400 sfi 5 speed

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KaijuSenso
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Report this Post04-01-2011 09:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes I ordered Trueleo's 2.5 inch header and ypipe for a stock exhaust routing but asked them to for Aluminum Head Flanges. We just confirmed with each other that I needed D shaped ports and I believe this time around he custom made the flanges. I still need to test fit the exhaust (hopefully this weekend) and I'm going to let Francis T know how they fit for anyone else's future reference. So, 86 toy, I would suggest to you to wait a bit to see how mine fit, then talk to Francis T about making a duplicate set (point him to the set he made for me).

I just realized I can't remember which flange I have at the end of my Y pipe, if it's the 3 bolt, I won't be able to use my stock 2 bolt so I might be getting rid of that restriction sooner then I thought.
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Report this Post04-01-2011 11:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 86 toySend a Private Message to 86 toyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
i e-mailed them today and they said they have made 2 sets of headers for the aluminum head 3400 yours must be one of them.. please let me know how they fit.. i e-amiled him back and asked for a quote.. i was just going to buy the parts and bends and custom weld my own set up. i still may do this because it will be so much cheaper but time consuming plus i can say "hey i built that" my friend has access to a laser cutter at his work and can laser me a set of flanges to bolt to the heads for almost nothing, the only problem i have came across is finding a set of 3 into 1 collectors.. do you remember how much those headers cost you and do they look to be built well.. do you have any detailed pics of them?
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KaijuSenso
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Report this Post04-04-2011 12:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 86 toy:

i e-mailed them today and they said they have made 2 sets of headers for the aluminum head 3400 yours must be one of them.. please let me know how they fit.. i e-amiled him back and asked for a quote.. i was just going to buy the parts and bends and custom weld my own set up. i still may do this because it will be so much cheaper but time consuming plus i can say "hey i built that" my friend has access to a laser cutter at his work and can laser me a set of flanges to bolt to the heads for almost nothing, the only problem i have came across is finding a set of 3 into 1 collectors.. do you remember how much those headers cost you and do they look to be built well.. do you have any detailed pics of them?


Ya the set of headers he made before mine were for a turbo project and price wise he charged me his normal price because the only difference between stock was the flanges. Though Francis did say the price for future orders could change because he wasn't sure how much work it would be so if anyone wants a set, send him an email. Sadly I did not get close to test fitting the headers took too much time trying to clean up the trans and install the new clutch (plus moving everything between shops) My number one goal is to get these test fitted asap so I can send them out to be coated (but I would prefer the motor and trans bolted to the cradle for the test fit) As for pictures, no I don't have any more because I haven't opened the box since I took that quick one! But like I said these headers are 99% the same as the ones he builds for stock 2.8 or 3.4 Fieros so you can look at reviews from other people who ordered them.

Ok now onto the updates! I was so excited to start working on the new motor this weekend, but damn I was too slow about it because I barely got anything done!


Here are 90% of the parts I ordered for the electronics portion of the swap. (the list can be seen in an earlier post) the only things missing are the PCM and custom coolant temperature sensor.


This is what I spent the most time doing sadly, and it's not even near as clean as I want it. Used some Degreaser and a mild Acid to eat away at the oil, dirt, and grease that was caked onto the trans over it's 90k mile life thus far. Next plan is to get a lot of brake clean and go at it again with a smaller brush...


Got the trans off the 3400, was a little bit of a pain because the passenger side axle and transfer case is bolted to the block but only because I've never messed with one of these before.


New flywheel installed. It's a RAM from the Fiero Store (was a Christmas present) for a 1988 Fiero V6 (of course) Side note, I'm curious to see if the oil filter will clear the cradle.


Clutch installed, just your average parts store clutch for cheap (discounted through the shop I work at)


Now the most interesting part of the day! The stock 86 V6 bracket fits perfectly! Other swaps I've seen they needed to cut a chunk out of the bracket and/or grind a little bit from the motor. This 3400 has a specific aluminum oil pan for the Equinox. Couldn't find the bracket's bolts (probably still in the 2.8) so I just put anything in that fit (bell housing bolts incidentally) to prove it lines up.


See there's just enough clearance.


So then I went ahead and sprayed the bracket black so it would be dry and ready to install.

Well that's all I got from this weekend. I think Wednesday I'll drive back down to the shop to finish cleaning the trans (and hopefully paint) and probably try to knock out the upper intake (cleaning and paint). Otherwise I'll be itching to work all week while at school!

[This message has been edited by KaijuSenso (edited 02-11-2013).]

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KaijuSenso
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Report this Post04-06-2011 05:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Had a free day so decided to drive to the shop from school to finish cleaning and painting the transmission so it would be ready to install on Saturday.



Also planned on cleaning and painting the upper intake manifold I got from an Alero but our motor guy at work said he has like 5 of them off of Chevy Ventures that don't have the 3400SFI cast on the top. Decided to trade mine for it so I don't have to read 3400 upside down every time I open the trunk

[This message has been edited by KaijuSenso (edited 02-11-2013).]

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KaijuSenso
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Report this Post04-11-2011 12:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Another exciting update; beware of images!


Mounting the Transmission and all the bolts line up except for this one, any thoughts? Bad? Good Enough?









Got the test mount the headers! There were only a few slight issues I had to deal with, namely the thermostat housing.


So I beat on it with a body hammer, then hammered a chisel down between them to get a little gap.


Hopefully this will be enough space between the parts, at least there is an air gap now. I plan on getting these ceramic coated.


Power Steering idler pulley


Pulled off the LNJ fuel rail and injectors to be replaced with ones from a 3100 (to match the computer being tuned for this motor) I realized the fuel rail can is symmetrical so can probably be flipped 180 degrees in order to use either the LA1 or LNJ upper intake, For future performance mods I might look into going back to this system but for now the 3100 route is easier.


This is the cam position sensor correct? Right at the top of the timing cover. I believe it needs to be changed to an LA1 sensor but it doesn't look a thing like the one Milzy Motorsports sent me... I'm going to look more into it and ask on the 60degreeV6 forums but if anyone here has some ideas let me know.


Took this picture to show the differences in coil packs, the top one was from the LNJ and the bottom from and LA1. It bolts right in place but uses different spark plug wires and has more connectors for the wiring harness.


Well here is basically what my engine is going to look like, still need to do the sensor modifications and either get that Venture upper intake or clean up this one. The alternator bracket I've decided will get switched with one from an LA1 and use a matching alternator. The AC compressor bracket also doesn't line up with the compressor from a 98 Monte Carlo so I need to look into getting the right bracket.

I hope to have all the "hardware" ready to go next weekend so I can start the wiring.

[This message has been edited by KaijuSenso (edited 02-11-2013).]

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Joseph Upson
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Report this Post04-11-2011 11:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you intend to install the alternator up top in the standard location for the engine you may want to consider keeping the current mount bracket as it appears it is the proper mount that will fit the 145 amp unit found on the GM SUV's usually the 5.3L from around 99 to 2005. It's an AD244 model alternator and you would need the version with four terminals in the plug socket. Only one wire is used to turn it on but you have to be mindful of it because there is a two terminal version that is computer controlled. NAPA also offers a 200 AMP version.

I made an adaptor to mount mine to the 3900. It's a popular swap to several smaller engine vehicles because of its high voltage and amperage output at low rpm, mainly to support high output sound systems in the swaps.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 04-11-2011).]

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KaijuSenso
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Report this Post04-11-2011 04:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Joseph Upson:

If you intend to install the alternator up top in the standard location for the engine you may want to consider keeping the current mount bracket as it appears it is the proper mount that will fit the 145 amp unit found on the GM SUV's usually the 5.3L from around 99 to 2005. It's an AD244 model alternator and you would need the version with four terminals in the plug socket. Only one wire is used to turn it on but you have to be mindful of it because there is a two terminal version that is computer controlled. NAPA also offers a 200 AMP version.

I made an adaptor to mount mine to the 3900. It's a popular swap to several smaller engine vehicles because of its high voltage and amperage output at low rpm, mainly to support high output sound systems in the swaps.



I'll look into that once I start doing upgrades to the engine, for now though it's cheap and easy enough to get a basic swap going with stock LA1 parts.

Any thoughts on the Cam Position Sensor? Superdave from the 60degreeV6 forums says the LA1 sensor should read my LNJ cam trigger no problem.

[This message has been edited by KaijuSenso (edited 04-12-2011).]

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Joseph Upson
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Report this Post04-11-2011 05:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by KaijuSenso:
Any thoughts on the Cam Position Sensor?


TGP code doesn't require it.
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