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Nameless Build Thread: LS4 F40 and a whole lot more by dobey
Started on: 06-11-2010 11:04 PM
Replies: 409 (18834 views)
Last post by: Tony Kania on 05-26-2017 12:13 AM
dobey
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Report this Post06-11-2010 11:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, it's finally about to start. About five and a half years ago, I finally picked up my third Fiero GT, after not having one for a few years. A nice 87 GT, but still stock.

FS short shifter, performance sound retrofit with JL 6W0 sub, poly all around, ST Suspensions 1.8" drop springs, new shocks/struts, and ball joints. The drivetrain is still the stock 2.8 and 5 speed Getrag… for a short while longer anyway. I've mentioned a few times in other threads, that I'm doing an LS4 swap with the F40 6 speed. Well I finally got an engine, which I picked up from the freight terminal today, and unloaded in my garage.

[This message has been edited by dobey (edited 03-14-2017).]

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Report this Post06-11-2010 11:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DogcreekClick Here to Email DogcreekSend a Private Message to DogcreekEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sweet!!!! Can't wait to see this one unfold! Way to go Dobey!!!

You friend from the left coast (almost) Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 06-11-2010).]

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Report this Post06-12-2010 10:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post06-12-2010 10:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

dobey

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[This message has been edited by dobey (edited 03-14-2017).]

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Report this Post06-12-2010 11:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FierologySend a Private Message to FierologyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looking good, Dobey,

Would you be up to giving us a quick rundown of cost? I've long wondered just how much money goes into these sorts of swaps, because everything just looks so nice! And do you use the stock Fiero computer setup?

Thanks,
-Michael

------------------
"A guy know's he's in love when he loses interest in his car for a few days." -Tim Allen

He who dies with the most toys... still dies.


Check out my restoration!

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Report this Post06-12-2010 11:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fierology:
Would you be up to giving us a quick rundown of cost? I've long wondered just how much money goes into these sorts of swaps, because everything just looks so nice! And do you use the stock Fiero computer setup?


Well, I have no idea what the total cost will be yet. And I'm pondering some things, of which the cost might make most Fiero owners/swappers cringe at the thought of, but I will be investigating them and if they make sense, will be doing them. I've spent about $2500 so far, not including the car and what's already done to it. That's the engine, trans, intake, throttle body, valley cover, steering column, steering wheel, airbag cover (no bag), horn badge, and a few other small pieces. I've got about $6500 in the car as she sits, including parts and labor (broken exhaust manifold bolts are evil).

The LS4 won't run on the stock Fiero ECM. I'll be using the e67 ECM (on lots of 2007+ GM cars), instead of the e40 ECM (which is on the 05-06 LS4 cars). Due to this, I may have to change a few more interals and sensors, but isn't a significant cost increase, since I didn't get a full drop-out with ecm/harness/etc… anyway.
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Report this Post06-12-2010 06:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post06-12-2010 08:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
FieroKing just got Dogcreeks engine in this morning for the last time! She is a tight fit, but looks ever so sweet in the bay. Good luck with yours.

Tony
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Report this Post06-13-2010 12:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post06-13-2010 10:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post06-14-2010 03:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierologySend a Private Message to FierologyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looking good. Thanks for the reply. I'll be watching this one.

-Michael
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Report this Post06-14-2010 10:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Went to drain the rest of the coolant out today, but when trying to turn the plug, I just ended up pulling the whole thing around with it. And I was too tired to mess with it too much, and since the sun was out, felt like driving my GT around a bit instead. Then hitting up the local watering hole, since they have $2 pints on Mondays.

Hopefully I can get her drained tomorrow. The slow drips of dex-cool onto my garage floor aren't particularly thrilling.
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Report this Post06-15-2010 08:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post06-17-2010 12:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post06-18-2010 09:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DogcreekClick Here to Email DogcreekSend a Private Message to DogcreekEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
LOL, Dobey, we were just asking the same question about the switch...If Joe has it figured out I will send you a pic or at least the plan.... Pontiac just wasn't thinking about us putting big (read as modern too) V8's in these cars I swear!!

BTW love the intake color... that looks sweet...

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 06-18-2010).]

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Report this Post06-18-2010 10:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Haha. Thanks Jeff!

I've sat in my car, holding the ignition switch, trying to find some place where that huge thing would fit and make sense. But there really is no where to put it. Although, if the GP turn stalk fits on this Caddy column, I may just get enough of an itching to go find a second gauge surround and see about making a custom surround to mount it in, with a little bit of an aluminum bracket to hold it steady.

I'm not sure what to do about the wiring yet though. I have no idea which wires are which on the new switches.

[This message has been edited by dobey (edited 03-14-2017).]

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Report this Post06-18-2010 10:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

dobey

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Oh, and the intake will look MUCH better once I get the new fuel rails on, and get the right fuel rail/coil covers. No more silly stainless steel crossover tube going over the intake then.
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Report this Post06-19-2010 11:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, my GP turn stalk arrived today. And it mounts jperfectly on the Caddy column. This solves two of the issues I had with wanting to swap the Caddy column in. Now I don't have to make a custom hybrid turn stalk, and the GP stalk also has the hazard switch button on top. I just need the top of half of the plastic column surround piece from a Grand Prix now, or cut a hole in the top of the Caddy one. Getting a GP one would be much better, given the piece I have for the Caddy column is broken and scratched up pretty bad.

So now all I have to do, to get the column swapped in, is figure out all the column and steering wheel wiring details, and find a place to mount the new ignition switch. I have an idea how to go about doing it with the stock dash, but it will take a little fabrication work with fiberglass. And I don't have an extra gauge pod to muck about with to see if it would work, unfortunately.
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Report this Post06-20-2010 12:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DogcreekClick Here to Email DogcreekSend a Private Message to DogcreekEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
OK... just thinking out loud here... How about on the flat surface between the window up/down switches?
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Report this Post06-20-2010 08:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

OK... just thinking out loud here... How about on the flat surface between the window up/down switches?


You mean the power mirror controls? :P

I'm thinking of modifying the right side of the gauge pod and switching the trunk popper to an under-dash style one, And moving the defogger switch to where the light switches are now, or just deleting it. Since the GP turn stalk also has the light controls, there is no need for them on the dash. Then I can make the right side of the dash a little wider, and even add a little sort of bottom to the back side, so I could stick a cup behind the pod that's smaller than a 40oz large drink. I'd want to play with such ideas on an unused gauge pod though, so I don't have to leave my car sitting while I work on it.

[This message has been edited by dobey (edited 06-20-2010).]

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Report this Post06-20-2010 08:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SMTHGTSend a Private Message to SMTHGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looking VERY NICE... ((~added to favorites~))

------------------

Steve
Aka. "SmoothGT"
1987 GT 4.9L~V8 ~4T6OE
SmoothGT~II

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Report this Post06-21-2010 12:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That looks to be one pretty good GT. This engine will be a lot of work, but will be very much worth it when you fire her up for the first time. Do you have any body mods, suspension upgrades, or wheel and tire combos that you are looking into?

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Report this Post06-21-2010 01:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post06-22-2010 09:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, I got the other head and the oil pan off tonight. Looks like the crank has the 24x reluctor on it, and I have a 58x on the way, to replace it. Have been having a hell of a time trying to get the crank pulley bolt to break loose. It's still in there tight. Guess I'll have to go get an impact wrench and socket. Even with a pry bar holding the rear of the crank steady against the engine stand, and a long 1/2" breaker bar, it still hasn't come loose. I just end up rocking the whole stand when I put any real force on it.

The pistons and compression chambers on the head sides are really dirty too. They must have ran some oil through the intake. There really can't be any other explanation for this on an engine with only 10K miles on it. And I have no idea why there would have been any corrosion on top of the valley cover, or inside the coolant crossover tube.

Anyway, it looks like I'll be pulling the pistons out along with the crank, so I can get them cleaned up properly. I also need to find an air powered valve spring compressor. The cheap tool at Harbor Freight with the hand crank on top, to compress the valves, does not look like fun to try and use. Then I can get the heads and valves cleaned up proper too. And possibly get the heads milled. Anyone from my area know a good, reasonably priced shop to do that at? I'm probably only going to get 0.015" milled off, just to bump the compression a tiny bit.
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Report this Post06-23-2010 09:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Picked up a 20 gal parts washer, and impact wrench at Harbor Freight today. Didn't get the washer assembled yet, but I got it at least. And there was a forecast of isolated thunderstorms, with the sky looking like it was about to happen, so didn't bother doing any work in the garage.

I did go poke at the steering column some more though. I've got the GP turn signal stalk mounted onto the Caddy column, with the Caddy wiper control stalk. I still need to get a GP shroud to handle the hazard switch, though. Since the GP turn stalk came with a harness, I pulled the Caddy turn signal bits out of the dash harness, and there's now one extra wire I can use in the Caddy clock spring. I think I'll save it for a steering wheel cooler. I just have to tear the new harness down, figure out what wires are for what in the stalks and steering wheel controls, and get the harness wired back together with proper connectors on everything. And I need to find some place to mount up the relays for the power tilt/telescoping functions, and hook up the important currently usable pieces into the Fiero wiring (lights, turn signals, hazard switch, horn, and wiper controls), along with the tilt/telescope switch.

I also need to fix up the faux airbag cage, so that the horn button will mount solidly, and get the new Pontiac emblem mounted in the airbag cover. I wish I already had a second car to play with this in, but hopefully I can find one in the next couple of weeks. Then once I get everything wired up and working in the 'parts' car, I can move it over into my GT.
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Report this Post07-06-2010 11:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post07-10-2010 12:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FierokingClick Here to visit Fieroking's HomePageClick Here to Email FierokingSend a Private Message to FierokingEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a couple of gauge pods. How about $20 plus shipping?

Joe Sokol (Jeff's builder)

------------------
85 SE Daily driver with a 3.4 DOHC OBD II
88 Formula/GT 4.9 Allante Intake (My Baby)

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Report this Post07-13-2010 08:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post07-17-2010 05:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Received the new GP column shroud today. It's not a direct fit on the Caddy column though.

The mount points seem to be the same, but the plastic is much larger, and the back end of it interferes with part of the Caddy column. The split between the upper and lower pieces is also completely different from the Caddy shroud. I wish I had a parts car to stick it in, so I can make sure it's even feasible to have in the Fiero, without having to tear my car up.

Maybe after I get my car re-inspected this week, I'll just take the seat out, and see If I can't disconnect the Fiero column and drop it out, and see if the Caddy column fits up how I want it, and what interference issues there will be with the gauge pod housing.
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Report this Post07-21-2010 01:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I did not even know this thread was going till you mentioned it in another thread.

I like to see how other people tackle the problems of this swap.
If you could post some detailed pics of the column standing on end (steering wheel down) I will try to toss a few ideas at you?
Better yet. if you have a stock Fiero column that you could stand next to it?
The new columns do have some draw backs.

I want to do the LS6 intake swap. Only because there seems to be some debate over which one will perform better with the "low" displacement. BUT that is a ways off from now
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Report this Post07-21-2010 03:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
I did not even know this thread was going till you mentioned it in another thread.

I like to see how other people tackle the problems of this swap.
If you could post some detailed pics of the column standing on end (steering wheel down) I will try to toss a few ideas at you?
Better yet. if you have a stock Fiero column that you could stand next to it?
The new columns do have some draw backs.

I want to do the LS6 intake swap. Only because there seems to be some debate over which one will perform better with the "low" displacement. BUT that is a ways off from now


I don't have the wheel on the new column yet. I don't think there will be a problem mounting it. I recall you mentioned that you were going to do the same column previously, but it stuck out further than you were comfortable with. I don't have a stock Fiero column that's out of car, either.
Yet, anyway. I may have a second car very soon to work on this stuff with though. And I also hope to get my Mini fixed and sold asap. Would rather spend that money on the Fiero(s).

I'm guessing the LS2 and LS6 intakes will both perform about the same on the LS4. Would be nice to see dyno numbers of totally stock LS4 vs totally stock LS4 with the LS6 intake. The LS6 intakes also seem to be a bit more expensive. As I understand it though, the L76 intake is supposed to be better than the LS2 intake, too. But they're also more expensive.
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Report this Post07-21-2010 03:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ALJRClick Here to Email ALJRSend a Private Message to ALJREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Uggg... Please change the title of this thread
Its going to be very difficult to find using the search function... AND I am sure ppl will want to see what your doing here; know I do
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Report this Post07-21-2010 03:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ALJR:

Uggg... Please change the title of this thread
Its going to be very difficult to find using the search function... AND I am sure ppl will want to see what your doing here; know I do


Please tell me how to do so. There's no "Edit Title" button.
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Report this Post07-21-2010 05:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Please tell me how to do so. There's no "Edit Title" button.


If you send Cliff a PM he can change the title.
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Report this Post07-21-2010 06:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:
If you send Cliff a PM he can change the title.


Looks like it was done, then.
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Report this Post07-21-2010 08:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ALJRClick Here to Email ALJRSend a Private Message to ALJREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ahhh, much better title
Wish every one put descriptive titles...
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Report this Post07-22-2010 04:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
OK. Looks like I should be getting the second car this weekend. Haven't done much more work on the build yet, due to the crazy heat, and being busy with other things. With a second car coming though, I should be able to start pushing forward on some of the issues of the LS4/F40 portion, as well as the interior. Have to make a little more room in the garage for the second car, and to work with it in the garage. But I think I'll be getting around to finishing up some details with the steering column soon after the car arrives.
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Report this Post07-23-2010 09:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Indeed. Made verbal confirmation last night, and the car will be showing up in my driveway today. It's an 85 GT in fairly rough shape, but looks clean enough in the pictures, for the price, and what I intend to do with it. It has about 62K miles on the speedo, and I will likely end up restoring it once I get the LS4 mounted and ready to install in my 87 GT. I just realized this morning that I should be able to get antique plates for it too, when I do register it. Hooray!

My first Fiero was a black 85 GT, though I never was able to get it driveable. It was a salvage title, and I got it for $50, and at the time, didn't have the money to get it working right again, so had to send it off. It will be nice to have another one. I'm thinking G6 GXP drivetrain in it.
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