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Brake Line & Fitting Sizes by RWDPLZ
Started on: 03-17-2010 05:22 PM
Replies: 28 (4934 views)
Last post by: RWDPLZ on 03-23-2014 12:25 PM
RWDPLZ
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03-17-2010 05:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I've seen this question pop up pretty often, but never seen a definitive answer. So I decided to drive to the parts store, and figure it out.

I replaced the brake lines in my Fiero with the Fiero Store's stainless steel pre-bent lines, and bought an extra proportioning valve and 3-way rear block just in case my old ones were unusable. The prop valve was fine since it was sealed in the spare tire bay, but the rear block was a corroded mess. I cut the old lines off, put the block in a vise, and used a couple Snap-On 6-sided sockets to get the old fittings out of the block. Then I cleaned it off with a wire wheel:



Now, when I was seeing how many different brake line and fitting sizes there were, I was surprised to find there were only two (not counting the two lines going to the master cylinder on top of the prop valve). The big fitting, with it's 6mm (1/4) line, and the small fitting with it's 3/16 line. So I took these to the parts store.

I hate to admit it, but yes, I went to Auto Zone. This is probably the only store in town where I could go behind the counter and do the research in the parts area for half an hour, going through all the fittings. Here's what I found:

The brake lines are European thread bubble flare. Yes, a Pontiac, built in the USA, has European brake lines. I believe this is because the parts probably came from Canada. This is an example of the lines they have:



This line is 3/16 x 08" (line size x length) (4.7mm x 20.3cm). metric thread/bubble flare. European thread bubble flare. All these lines begin with the designation PAE-3__, where the last two numbers are the line length in inches.

They also had PAB-3__ line, which is US thread bubble flare - these will NOT work on the Fiero. The fittings are a different thread.

(Again, the two lines that go into the master cylinder are different, and appear to be regular American-style double flare lines.)

Now the fittings:

First, the large fittings. size is M14 x 1.5 bubble thread size, 6mm tube size. They sell these in a 5-pack, made by the company AGS.
part # BLF-53C-5
barcode # 077146372520
$3.49

The small fittings: size M10 x 1.0 bubble thread size, 3/16 tube size. Also a 5-pack by AGS,
part # BLF-39C-5
barcode 077146368813
$2.99



These are right on the shelf, with the brake lines



If they don't have them, they can probably order them? Forgot to check. They're both available on their website.

------------------

1984 Fiero SE

[This message has been edited by RWDPLZ (edited 03-17-2010).]

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Robert 2
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03-17-2010 05:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Robert 2Send a Private Message to Robert 2Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

good to know

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Austrian Import
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03-18-2010 01:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

This is a very interesting development.

Thanks for posting this.

I wonder if the Fiero was meant as a more "global" car at least during the early stages of development. Really wish the Fiero history wasn't buried and hidden so deep in the history of GM.

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donnie072003
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05-12-2010 08:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for donnie072003Click Here to visit donnie072003's HomePageClick Here to Email donnie072003Send a Private Message to donnie072003Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

A plus rating for you Thanks

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RWDPLZ
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04-14-2011 07:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

UPDATE: I finally got a hold of a used master cylinder cheap, so I could check the sizes of those lines, and the ones going into the proportioning valve. These lines have double flared ends, in contrast to the bubble flares on the rest of the lines. So the Fiero uses standard US brake lines going into the prop valve, where all the lines then turn into European lines.

At the front of the master cylinder, the line going into the prop valve is 1/4" at both ends. At the master, the fitting is 9/16 - 18, and at the prop valve, is 1/2 - 20
At the rear of the master cylinder, the line going into the prop valve is 3/16" at both ends, and the fittings are both 1/2 - 20

These fittings are all also available in 5-packs from AGS. It would be better to get them individually, since you would end up with so many extras, but they're all still available new.

size 9/16 - 18 inverted thread size, 1/4 tube size
part # BLF-43C-5
barcode # 077146372445
$3.49

size 1/2 - 20 inverted thread size, 1/4 tube size
part # BLF-44C-5
barcode # 077146372452
$3.49

size 1/2 - 20 inverted thread size, 3/16 tube size
part # BLF-41C-5
barcode # 077146372421
$3.49

Since it's a popular upgrade, I also check on the Blazer master cylinder. A 94 S10 Blazer uses the same fitting sizes, and has the same cylinder bore, 36mm. A 94 full-size Blazer uses the same fitting sizes also, with a slightly larger bore, at 1.574"

The hoses at the calipers: They all use an M10 - 1.0 thread fitting

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02greens10
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04-14-2011 07:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 02greens10Click Here to Email 02greens10Send a Private Message to 02greens10Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

my dad's oldmobile Eighty-Eight- from 1989 had the same crap. American and Metrrc parts on the same system. It made a giant ass pain to work on it years ago.

I just took the block off the back wheel on the car i'm working on and someone put 3 adapter fittings together to attach it. I'm saving this post to use later on this month.

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theogre
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04-14-2011 08:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Just to make sure....
Fittings for All years?

I know TFS sell 84, 85-87, and 88, in line kit...
They had to bend three kits, did they use different nut for some line ends?

Even if a few nuts change, we have a source for fittings. Good job. This notes/page will be added to brake section in cave.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)


The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)

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RWDPLZ
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04-14-2011 09:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Just to make sure....
Fittings for All years?



The fittings above are all for 84-87 cars. If anyone has an 88 and could check and see if the sizes are the same, that would be great. I know the 88 uses a different master cylinder, but has the same fitting sizes. Not sure about the prop valve, or the 3-way block in the back.

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Robert 2
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02-24-2012 11:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Robert 2Send a Private Message to Robert 2Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Was not the good infos , sorry .

[This message has been edited by Robert 2 (edited 02-24-2012).]

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Robert 2
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02-24-2012 11:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Robert 2Send a Private Message to Robert 2Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Finally i think that can help .

[This message has been edited by Robert 2 (edited 02-24-2012).]

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Greenmeansgo
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02-25-2012 12:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GreenmeansgoSend a Private Message to GreenmeansgoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

What year is your car

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RWDPLZ
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02-25-2012 10:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Robert 2:

Finally i think that can help .





Those thread sizes at the top should be 1/2" x 20 at both ends, everything else is correct.

[This message has been edited by RWDPLZ (edited 02-26-2012).]

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Robert 2
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02-25-2012 11:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Robert 2Send a Private Message to Robert 2Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

You mean the 7/16" and the 3/8" ? And what about the 1/4" and 3/16" line then ?

[This message has been edited by Robert 2 (edited 02-25-2012).]

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RWDPLZ
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02-25-2012 03:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Everything else is correct, including the line sizes

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fierogt28
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02-25-2012 06:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierogt28Send a Private Message to fierogt28Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I just replaced my front brake lines on my 88GT last summer. I used 3/16 bubble flare lines for both front wheels. I hope I used the right parts...

One day I will be ordering a stock brake set from TFS. There kit supplier is from Classic tube.
------------------
fierogt28

88 GT, Loaded, 5-speed.
88 GT, 5-speed. All original.

[This message has been edited by fierogt28 (edited 02-25-2012).]

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RWDPLZ
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02-26-2012 10:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post



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85 SE VIN 9
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06-05-2012 09:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I have this leak at the connection block over the right rear wheel. I suppose I should replace everything with the Fierostore stainless lines, but they don't have them right now and I can't even access my account for some reason. So I really appreciate your thread, especially since there is an Autozone just up the street. I see on the web they have premade lines (not prebent) and I do have benders. Do you know how long that line is? Hopefully I won't have to cut and flare as well as bend.



Is this the right line? It has a different part number "PAEX."


AGS/3/16 in. o.d. x 60 in. ISO bubble flare metric Poly-Armour brake line with 2 pcs. M10 - 1.0 tube nut fitting for European vehicles
Part Number: PAEX-360



Alternate Part Number: AZE360

3/16 in. dia.
ISO Bubble Flare Line


http://www.autozone.com/aut...&fromString=search&p

I guess the image answers my question - there it says PAE-360.

Thank you very much for the detailed information, diagrams, and photos!

[This message has been edited by 85 SE VIN 9 (edited 06-05-2012).]

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RWDPLZ
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07-10-2012 05:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Sorry I'm so late to respond, just saw this. That line is the undercar line, not sure how long it is, it's REALLY long, the fitting sizes on both ends is M14x1.5, line size 6mm

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zkhennings
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05-16-2013 11:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I had to replace the 6mm line. Good luck, nobody carries it. NAPA can order you a roll, otherwise you need to get the 6mm preflared sections azone carries, but they have wrong fittings so you need to cut off flares, get the right fittings, drill them out a little because 6mm fittings they sell don't fit over their 6mm preflared line (it is ridiculous I was so mad) I bought 2 6 foot sections of the 6mm line preflared, with one coupler that fit the lines on their, and I bought the 6mm fittings M14 x 1.5 shown in the picture at the beginning of the thread, and they did not fit over the line. Everything worked out in the end but I was really frustrated that 6mm fittings would not fit over 6mm line. I routed the line like stock.

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07-11-2013 06:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gtxbulletClick Here to visit gtxbullet's HomePageSend a Private Message to gtxbulletEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by zkhennings:

I had to replace the 6mm line. Good luck, nobody carries it. NAPA can order you a roll, otherwise you need to get the 6mm preflared sections azone carries, but they have wrong fittings so you need to cut off flares, get the right fittings, drill them out a little because 6mm fittings they sell don't fit over their 6mm preflared line (it is ridiculous I was so mad) I bought 2 6 foot sections of the 6mm line preflared, with one coupler that fit the lines on their, and I bought the 6mm fittings M14 x 1.5 shown in the picture at the beginning of the thread, and they did not fit over the line. Everything worked out in the end but I was really frustrated that 6mm fittings would not fit over 6mm line. I routed the line like stock.


they didn't fit because of the coating on the lines. 6mm fittings fit 6mm lines WITHOUT COATING
I have the same issue once, but decided to take the coating off instead.

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85 SE VIN 9
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10-20-2013 04:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

RWDPLZ where did you get the connection block back in 2010? Is it possible to get another today? Now I have the lines, but I can't get the old connector out of the rear connection block, at least while it's on the car. It's recommended that I take the other lines off and bring the block inside to remove the fittings. The closest match doesn't have metric fittings. It would be nice to get this project complete in less than two years...lol

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RWDPLZ
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10-20-2013 04:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

If I remember correctly, I just started a WTB thread here in 'The Mall'. That or the junkyard.

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11-18-2013 04:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_2m4Send a Private Message to Jake_2m4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

RWDPLZ - Thanks for all this info, you've got a positive from me. Last night, I replaced my front driver's side hardline with a 30 inch one from advance. (The 20 inch one might work but it looked a tad short) It already had the 10mm nuts on it and everything.

For anyone thinking about doing this, I would suggest buying the 6 dollar tube bender or renting the full tool set for the job. If you buy the lines with the nut and flares already done all you have to do is bend it as needed to fit. I had a little trouble with excess length, but just left it all under the master cylinder without bending the line enough to crimp anything.

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RWDPLZ
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11-18-2013 05:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I've done custom lines too, like on a Tahoe where I had to reuse the oddball-sized fittings that go to the ABS pump. It's the best way to get a good quality professional job, unless you luck out and find one the exact length you need. Problem is, the only flaring tool I've found that works well is a Craftsman one. The cheap chinese ones just don't work, and I had a Blue Point one right off the Snap-On truck break the second time I used it.

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11-19-2013 04:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguyClick Here to Email thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I've redone brake lines on a few cars, sometimes remedial, sometimes upgrades. Most recently I redid all the lines on my 1962 Falcon to accommodate a new master cylinder. After a lot of research I used copper-based brake line ("CuNiFeR" is one brand) and couldn't be happier with the result. The copper stuff isn't prone to rust or corrosion and is incredibly easy to form and run - getting it all the way down the driveshaft tunnel was painless. I bought a 25' roll of it from, of all places, Amazon.com but you can buy it just about anywhere that does brakes. The fittings were mostly sourced from Summit as they have a pretty good selection, but I had some leftovers from previous jobs and those were purchased from FedHillUSA, Hose and Fittings, and Pegasus Racing. FedHillUSA supplied a mess of ISO/bubble fittings when I did the lines on my XR4Ti.

FWIW, I use a Mastercool hydraulic flaring tool that was like $300 and, turns out, not such a good investment. It's nice because it's portable and great for making repairs in situ, but as a tool for cranking out multiple reliable flares it's not my favorite. If I were doing it again, I'd probably buy one of the bench-mount flarers like Eastwood sells. They're also not cheap, but some auto parts stores rent them. Related, flaring that copper tube is INFINITELY easier than steel tube, so if you just need to knock out a couple, you may have luck with one of the Harbor Freight etc. hand tools.



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03-23-2014 10:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DukeiboyClick Here to Email DukeiboySend a Private Message to DukeiboyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Hey RWDPLZ, I know this thread is really old but do you remember where you got that 3-way block from? I can't seem to find it anywhere. Thanks.

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Mark A. Klein
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03-23-2014 11:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Mark A. KleinClick Here to Email Mark A. KleinSend a Private Message to Mark A. KleinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but what ever happened to the old "Never use copper on a brake system" rule? Up to 2000 psi? on hydraulics?

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03-23-2014 11:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Mark A. KleinClick Here to Email Mark A. KleinSend a Private Message to Mark A. KleinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I always used a propane torch to heat the ends of steel lines when re flaring. GM uses the hardest lines.... Replacement lines are much softer.

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RWDPLZ
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03-23-2014 12:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The 3-way block I got from someone here, in 'The Mall' section. Just made a want to buy thread.

Conventional copper tubing as brake lines is a bad idea. AGS and other companies now make copper nickel alloy lines that are DOT approved. Haven't tried them myself.

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