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Inside the GM tilt steering column by JazzMan
Started on: 12-04-2007 08:54 AM
Replies: 138 (113240 views)
Last post by: theogre on 06-04-2015 11:14 AM
theogre
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Report this Post10-31-2009 10:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Some...
Lock plate, turn signal switch (5 screws), and key switch (puts in).
1 bolt hold the lock.

Need
Steering wheel puller
Lock plate tool
2 Phillip Screw drive, #2 for inside and #1 for hazard,
Torx screw driver

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)


The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top of every forum page...)

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Old Fart
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Report this Post01-23-2010 05:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Old FartSend a Private Message to Old FartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

EXCELLENT !!
Thank You
Kit

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unboundmo
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Report this Post01-24-2010 02:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for unboundmoClick Here to Email unboundmoSend a Private Message to unboundmoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thanks for the write-up. I/m going to bookmark this page and download the pdf is saw.....

I have a question... Is it possible to change the steering wheel to the disconnects config... Like the racers... and for theft reasons. I've seen the attachments but I don't know if they fit our cars... Has anyone tried this before?

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FieroDev
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Report this Post02-07-2010 12:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroDevSend a Private Message to FieroDevEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thanks for the writeup. im 14 and i was able to repar my wobbly steering column!

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guitarjerry
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Report this Post03-07-2010 08:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for guitarjerryClick Here to Email guitarjerrySend a Private Message to guitarjerryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by unboundmo:

I have a question... Is it possible to change the steering wheel to the disconnects config... Like the racers... and for theft reasons. I've seen the attachments but I don't know if they fit our cars... Has anyone tried this before?

You mean having the steering wheel you can pull off like on stock cars? You have a good point. Having no steering wheel in the car while its parked would make a great antitheft device.

I have a question myself. I cant seem to find a cancelling cam. The part where the horn spring loaded thingy goes in was broken when I got the car. There are no fieros in my area on death row(wrecking yard) plus I think a cancel cam shouldn't be something you have to get from a boneyard. I mean, they fail almost as much as the turn signal switch, which they DO have at my local parts stores, so where do I get a cancel cam?
And why doesn't the turn signal switch just have a cancel cam come with it? I would be willing to pay an extra 5-10 bucks on every turn signal switch I buy for the rest of my life just to have the cancel cam be there so when I need it, its there. Seems like every second or third one I replace also needs a cancel cam.
Maybe there's another GM car with a cancel cam that fits?

[This message has been edited by guitarjerry (edited 03-07-2010).]

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guitarjerry
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Report this Post03-07-2010 09:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for guitarjerryClick Here to Email guitarjerrySend a Private Message to guitarjerryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

nevermind. If you search for "cancel cam" or "turn signal cancel cam" you get nothing but if you look under turn signal and turn signal directional cam on checker's site, there it is. the non- tilt wheel one. But no tilt wheel listed. So, just for fun, I arbitrarily put in 89 grand am 2.5L. It listed the exact same part for the non-tilt wheel, so I think the one listed under grand am for tilt wheel will work dorman 83232

I haven't had this car long, but with all the hassles I'd almost swear there was some kind of conspiracy going on in the parts industry against fiero owners.

[This message has been edited by guitarjerry (edited 03-07-2010).]

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camaropartsforall
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Report this Post08-08-2010 10:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for camaropartsforallClick Here to Email camaropartsforallSend a Private Message to camaropartsforallEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Hi, great info and great pictrures! I have an early second gen Camaro (1971) and I'm trying to go through the tilt steering column with flloor shift. I can't seem to find any info to help me disassembly it. Do you by chance know where I could get detailed instructions/pictures like this for my column? Any help would be appreicated. Thanks, Tony

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longjonsilver
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Report this Post11-12-2010 10:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for longjonsilverClick Here to visit longjonsilver's HomePageClick Here to Email longjonsilverSend a Private Message to longjonsilverEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

i was unable to get the two pivot pins out. the first one came out easily - the second had the threads stripped as i tried to pull it out. i tried to drill out the threads and tap in larger threads but the drillbit broke off as i worked. now i have to get another steering column. so much for the convenience of options on cars.
jon

------------------
I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun!

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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post11-13-2010 08:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by guitarjerry:

nevermind. If you search for "cancel cam" or "turn signal cancel cam" you get nothing but if you look under turn signal and turn signal directional cam on checker's site, there it is. the non- tilt wheel one. But no tilt wheel listed. So, just for fun, I arbitrarily put in 89 grand am 2.5L. It listed the exact same part for the non-tilt wheel, so I think the one listed under grand am for tilt wheel will work dorman 83232

I haven't had this car long, but with all the hassles I'd almost swear there was some kind of conspiracy going on in the parts industry against fiero owners.



Look in rockauto.com under body-interior

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longjonsilver
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Report this Post11-22-2010 02:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for longjonsilverClick Here to visit longjonsilver's HomePageClick Here to Email longjonsilverSend a Private Message to longjonsilverEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by longjonsilver:

i was unable to get the two pivot pins out.



an update, i was able to get the two pivot pins out by pulling the column, and using a 9/16 socket with a #8x32 screw, a nut and a couple of washers to pull the pin out. i have then been able to dig into the column and access the four offending bolts. i have red locktited them and torked them as best as i could using a 1/4" 6 point socket. i hope i found all the ball bearings.

jon

edit: i successfully completed the repair and i drove my car yesterday - wow! what a difference! if i can do this, you probably can too! thank you God for Jazzman and his great writeup! thanks Jazzman!

[This message has been edited by longjonsilver (edited 12-01-2010).]

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Report this Post01-06-2011 06:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jim StabeClick Here to Email Jim StabeSend a Private Message to Jim StabeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Hello. I just joined not because I have a Fiero but because I have a Fiero steering column (manual trans) in my LT1 powered MGB project car. The car has been widened 11" and has C4 suspension. Pictures are here if you are interested http://forum.britishv8.org/read.php?13,7581

I read through Jazzman's tutorial and it is very good but I have a question. I want to remove the ignition switch, locking mechanism and key removal lever. Can I do this without affecting the turn signal, high beam and wiper functions?

I understand Jazzman has left the site but hopefully someone else can shed some light.

Thanks

Jim

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JazzMan
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Report this Post01-06-2011 06:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JazzManClick Here to Email JazzManSend a Private Message to JazzManEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 11-22-2011).]

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Report this Post01-07-2011 10:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Jim StabeClick Here to Email Jim StabeSend a Private Message to Jim StabeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Jazzman

Glad you are still here. A remote key is exactly what I want to do. Thanks for the help, I'll let you know how it works.

Jim

[This message has been edited by Jim Stabe (edited 01-07-2011).]

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chrisb99
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Report this Post01-20-2011 04:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chrisb99Click Here to Email chrisb99Send a Private Message to chrisb99Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I haven't been able to find the post that is just to fix the wobbly steering wheel. Would you be able to reply with a link to it or something please? Thanks!

------------------
1986 Fiero GT

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Report this Post02-06-2011 02:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for marc-alanSend a Private Message to marc-alanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Great write up and pictures. Helped me replace the ignition key today. Much appreciated

m-a

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Report this Post04-15-2011 02:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jim StabeClick Here to Email Jim StabeSend a Private Message to Jim StabeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by JazzMan:

It sounds like you want a remote key system? If so, sure, you can remove the ignition switch, lock cylinder, and lock pin w/ spring, but you must keep the lock plate as it is part of the assembly stack and holds the horn cancel cam and plastic trim cover in place properly. You'll need to retain the ignition sector since it guides the high beam follower. You should be able to get away with bolting just the high-beam switch on the column without the ignition switch, though it may be necessary to put some spacer washers under the switch to replace the missing ignition switch assembly.

I got the column back together and the tutorial was a lifesaver, thanks Jazzman. One thing I noticed after I got it together id that it is not necessary to retain the sector or the gear, they have no effect on the high beam follower that I could see. I would post a picture of the column without the key lock but I can't figure out how to add pictures on this forum

Jim

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Report this Post05-02-2011 06:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for greggk53Click Here to visit greggk53's HomePageClick Here to Email greggk53Send a Private Message to greggk53Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Hello, I has a earlier Chevy Tilt Column without a shifter on it. Can you let me know where to find the two bearing right before and after the signal mechanism it has 12 balls in each of them and I believe they may be in a plastic retainer they are the one you show in your photo. Thanks

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Report this Post05-02-2011 11:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

You could try posting a message on the MALL section of this forum.

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Report this Post05-30-2011 11:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Just a bump - I had a wobbly steering column on my Formula - my son has been driving it and made a comment the other day that the steering wheel was wobbly. Last night he said it was really bad so I took a look - he was right. It had several inches of movement - every direction. I followed this thread in reverse to tear it down to the bolts (I used a few shortcuts - did not disconnect any wires - just pulled the slack through the column and was able to pull each piece off and let them hang). All four were completely backed out!

I was able to tear it down and put it back together using this thread - ran into a little snag when it was time to remove the pivot pins. I attempted to use a machine screw and "wiggle" each out - was afraid that I would snap the screw off. I posted here in tech and started the internet for a tool. Ended up getting a puller at O'Riellys - worked perfect.

Thanks Jazz for your hard work in this thread!

Thought I'd post a couple of current links for the pivot pin puller tool.

The puller I bought:
http://www.oreillyauto.com/...rd=pivot+pin+remover
"Performance Tool" part #W80652

And a link for the Lisle tool:
http://www.oreillyauto.com/...rd=pivot+pin+remover
"Lisle - Remover" part #19940

Pat

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Report this Post07-08-2011 09:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for n7vrzClick Here to Email n7vrzSend a Private Message to n7vrzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Picked up a column to replace mine with stripped holes for the infamous 4 loose bolts. Found that the replacement columns main shaft was 1 inch shorter than the one I just took out of my car.
So I had to disassemble two columns to make one good one.
So there are at least two different length main shafts out there.

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Fiero88GT
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Report this Post07-27-2011 05:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero88GTClick Here to Email Fiero88GTSend a Private Message to Fiero88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

bump for a great thread! i just had to take apart the column on my gt to tighten loose bolts and this made it a whole lot easier.

------------------

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Report this Post11-02-2011 12:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fstopSend a Private Message to fstopEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thanks for the great tech how-to but I haven't been able to see any of the photos. All I have are broken links. Is there somewhere to see the pics that go along with this post?
(I can view pics on other posts so I know it's not my browser settings.)

I'm asking because I just did this repair on my GM tilt column and the steering wheel still wobbles, so I'm wondering what/where I went wrong.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[This message has been edited by fstop (edited 11-02-2011).]

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Gall757
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Report this Post11-02-2011 08:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The pictures are gone for me too. This thread really need's 'em.....

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fstop
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Report this Post11-02-2011 09:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fstopSend a Private Message to fstopEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

DIY_Stu posted a .pdf to Jazzman tech article with all photos intact on Pg 2 of this thread.
For convenience here 'tis:

http://www.diyfiero.com/dro...ing_Rack_Rebuild.pdf

Worked for me!

Thanks to DIY_Stu!
Much appreciated!

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Report this Post11-02-2011 09:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fstopSend a Private Message to fstopEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Just a note abt the pivot pin removal tool posted by katatak above:

You can borrow everything but this tool from O'Reilly's/Checker/Kragen Auto Parts (depending on where you live) Steering wheel puller and lock plate removal tools are free loaners from O'Reilly's, et al. The pivot pin tool is $9.99 which was least expensive I found, including Ebay. (Tho it was priced less, shipping made it a lot more expensive and of course, you had to wait for it to arrive.)

Anyway, you can do the whole job for just $9.99 + tax.

If you don't have any Loc-tite handy or are too cheap (or broke) to buy any, you can use your wife's (or girlfriend's) clear nail polish on the bolt threads. Just be sure and wipe the grease off of the bottle before returning it or you'll have more problems than just a loose tilt assembly.

[This message has been edited by fstop (edited 11-02-2011).]

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Report this Post11-28-2011 11:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for avengador1Click Here to Email avengador1Send a Private Message to avengador1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Awesome! What else did you delete during your hizzy fit?
Those that want to see the missing article can find it here.
http://www.diyfiero.com/dro...ing_Rack_Rebuild.pdf

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 11-28-2011).]

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Report this Post11-30-2011 08:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FierobsessedClick Here to Email FierobsessedSend a Private Message to FierobsessedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Story time!

That Little Spring.

I was chasing down a looseness problem that my car has had forever. Ever since I've owned my 88 GT, (06/2003) it has always had loose steering issues, not the usual column falling apart thing. The car had 183K on the ODO already. First I traced a large amount of the play to the passenger side steering rack bushing. So I pulled the rack and found that not only was the bushing shot, but the rack's whole rack gear was corroded, and rusted pretty bad, and as well, the pinion's shaft bearing had deteriorated and broken apart.

I got a good core rack from the local U-Pull-it, did the Rodney dickman bushing, greased the internals, added new bellows and all ball joints and thought this would be the last I'd have to deal with the looseness in the steering. Don't get me wrong, it helped greatly. But It still had some considerable looseness. I gave up on hunting it down for the last 5 years. I had rebuilt the whole front end in 2007, only to have no difference in steering yet again.

Two days ago I decided that enough was enough. At 243K miles, I've had it with this loose steering. I proceeded to jiggle the wheel and find out if there was any looseness translating between the steering wheel and the rack. I noticed that the U-Joints under the steering colum were not exactly responsive to steering wheel jiggling. An AH HA moment. Must be something in the column!

Pulled the steering column apart, and found a great deal of looseness in the U-Joint at the tilt knuckle. Once I took it apart I found the little wire spring in the center of the plastic ball was broken in half. The joint was loose and flopping about. I got a used spring from The Las Vegas Fiero Club (Thanks Rich!) and put it in the ball, and deliberately installed the ball upside down and backwards from its original configuration, it just seemed tighter that way. And presto, the joint wasn't floppy anymore. Got it all back together and into the car and for the first time in the last 60K miles, my car drives like it was meant to. Dare I say it, it feels like a new Fiero.

I can't believe that little spring had such a profound effect on the feel of the steering. It always had almost 1/2" of play. I was always fighting the looseness on the highway.

That's my story.

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Report this Post12-11-2011 03:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

[Message deleted by Cliff Pennock:

I'm very sorry, but I received a notification from JazzMan that he does not want his original post reposted and asked/told me to remove it.

Again, my apologies, but I'm not going to be dragged into a Copyright discussion with him.]

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Old Lar
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Report this Post12-11-2011 10:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Old LarSend a Private Message to Old LarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Excellent photo write up on the steering colum fix. I farmed the column fix to my local Fiero mechanic. I couldn't handle the fix myself.

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Gall757
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Report this Post12-11-2011 10:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

How could copyright be involved?

It's not his real name and it was an unsolicited posting.

Is my advice on this forum my property?

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 12-30-2011).]

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Primaris
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Report this Post01-17-2012 11:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PrimarisClick Here to visit Primaris's HomePageSend a Private Message to PrimarisEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Edit: Well I screwed that up somehow.

Fixed: .PDF via torrent magnet link
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:AE801AB4720C1B4613434318E1C1C51E58593827&dn=Jazzman_Steering_Rack_Rebuild.pdf&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3a80%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.publicbt.com%3a80%2fannounce

Plain old torrent: Link

------------------
My Car Site www.flexyourrights.com
Just say NO!! to Automatic Transmissions!!
DRAG RACING - So easy a Caveman can do it!

[This message has been edited by Primaris (edited 06-16-2013).]

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twofatguys
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Report this Post03-10-2012 01:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for twofatguysClick Here to Email twofatguysSend a Private Message to twofatguysEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Hey, I have a question about this post which explains me copying it and making it once again available for everyone to see.


Working on the pictures now. This may take awhile, the copy I have used a different server for them, and I'm manually changing the address so they work, then I hope some people save this for future use.

 
quote

The first time I got into a GM tilt column (or any column for that matter) was when the column in my trusty old '84 Phoenix got so wobbly that it was scaring me to drive the car. It took me most of a day to repair that column because the factory service manual was terrible, and because I had to figure out how to design and fabricate all the special tools using junk I had on hand. Now, with the benefit of nearly 30 columns repaired over the last few years, I can do the same repair in the car in around an hour to an hour and a half on average, with my best time being just under 40 minutes. I've been wanting to do this topic for a couple years now, and decided that it was time.

I debated with myself what would be the best way to explore the Saginaw tilt column as used in the Fiero and most other GMs of that era, and concluded that a ground-up assembly would be the most effective. My intent with this topic is to give an in-depth working knowledge of GM tilt columns to anyone interested in their inner workings. I'm also going to create a separate topic that will detail the classic wobbly column repair procedure since it won't require the same level of disassembly as this build did.

To make the pictures more useful I painted some parts to make them more visible, and more importantly, did cutaways to allow a better view of the complex pivot point component relationships and other hidden details. For clarity I also cleaned and degreased most parts that would normally be lubricated, so if you're using this topic as a guide for overhauling a column it is important that all sliding/contact points are lubricated with a good odorless waterproof grease that won't run when hot.

The column shown is for a manual transmission equipped Fiero as indicated by the key release lever. Automatic columns use a different ignition switch that has a provision for an interlock cable that runs to the shifter mechanism. I will detail the internal differences between the two types of columns during the build.

Here are all of the tools necessary for working on the GM tilt column. Note, some tools aren't required for this build:

Steering wheel puller (disassembly only), either two-hole for stock wheels or three-hole for most aftermarket wheels
Lock plate compressor (Autozone carries the one pictured for the best price I've found)
Needle nose pliers
Snap ring pliers, outside type (safety snap ring)
20mm or 13/16" deep socket (steering wheel nut)
7mm socket or nutdriver (trim panel screws under dash)
11mm socket (column shaft pinch bolt to intermediate shaft at floorboard)
13mm socket (column bracket to column bolts )
15mm socket (column bracket to dash support bolts)
1/4" socket or nut driver (lock pin spring, bottom bearing assembly)
2 small flat blade screwdrivers
Small Phillips screwdriver
Medium Phillips screwdriver
T-20 Torx bit or driver ('86-up ignition lock cylinder retaining screw)
T-30 Torx bit or driver
Pivot pin puller (can make one, risky though) (disassembly only)
E-8 Torx head socket (can substitute 1/4" 6-point socket)
5/16" socket or nut driver (ignition & high beam switches)
3/8" socket or nut driver (ignition & high beam switches)
Adjustable and/or regular wrenches for the steering wheel & pivot pin pullers

Technically, all of the Phillips-head looking screws are actually Pozidriv head, but Phillips drivers will work just fine for occasional use. You'll also note that a combination of metric and SAE fasteners are used. This is because the Saginaw plant where the columns were built still used SAE tooling whereas the GM assembly plants where the columns were installed were fully metric. Thus, the internal fasteners in the column are SAE and the fasteners that connect it to the vehicle are metric.

Here are all of the parts in a GM tilt column, excluding the steering wheel:



We start assembly with the core part, the column jacket assembly:




This is the lower bearing with dust shield and ( 2 ) 8-32 x 1" self-tapping deformed-thread screws:



Install the lower bearing assembly and dust shield into the tail of the column jacket using a 1/4" socket. It is indexed so that it can only go in one way:



Now it's time to move to the top of the column jacket. Note the various slots and other features:



Here's the lower housing shroud. I cut away the side so that during the assembly it will be easier to see how the various components relate to each other:



The lower housing shroud simply slides onto the end of the column jacket, there are guides that allow it to only fit one way. When it is fully seated you'll see that the guides are below the large slot. Note the bump on the right side, that is for the manual column key release lever. The automatic column's lower housing shroud doesn't have this bump:



Here is the lower housing bolting plate. As a side note, my theory as to why the four bolts work lose and cause the "wobbly column" pattern failure so common with GM tilt columns is that the cross-sectional area of the tube that the bolting plate bears against is too small, resulting in the thin column tube edges deforming over time. This releases the tension that holds the bolts in place and once that occurs they rapidly back out under the various cyclic loads to which the steering column is subjected. You can see how little contact area there is as evidenced by the four narrow shiny spots around the edges:




You can see that the bolt spacing is wider at the top than at the bottom. Install the bolting plate by inserting it into the tube sideways, tilting the right side tab into the large slot, then bringing the plate up flat and inserting the two small tabs on the left into their corresponding slots in the tube wall:





On a manual column the next parts to install are the key release lever and spring:



They fit into an annular groove in the lower shroud, with the spring free end inserting into its pocket first as the lever is pushed into place:





Next up is the lower housing assembly. This has the pins that the tilt locking pawls engage to hold the tilt adjustment, and on manual columns it also has the key release lever guide as shown in the second photo below. The guide holds the manual key release lever in the shroud. The only difference between the manual and auto lower housing is the presence of the guide:




The high beam switch pushrod:



Install the high beam pushrod into the lower housing:




Install the ignition switch pushrod. It is installed by running the rod end down through a slot in the shroud (in the portion of the shroud that was cut away for this build topic):



Position the lower housing in place with the ignition switch and high beam pushrods routed as shown. Note, though it is possible to install the high beam pushrod after installing the housing, it is not possible to install the ignition switch pushrod after the housing is bolted in place:




The lower housing is held onto the column by four Torx-head bolts that screw into the bolting plate:



The bolts use an E8 socket, but can also be tightened with a 1/4" 6-point socket or a 6mm 6-point socket. Locktite is probably not a bad idea on the threads:



We're ready to install the ignition switch. There is a pocket in the side of it that the pushrod fits into:



Here's how the pushrod looks inserted into the switch:




The ignition switch bolts to the column with a 5/16" stud-headed screw. Install the screw finger tight at this time, note the slots that allow the ignition switch to be adjusted up or down the column:




We'll adjust the ignition switch later, after the column is fully assembled.

Next, install the high beam switch. It is held in place by a 3/8" nut on the stud-headed screw and a 5/16" screw that also holds the ignition switch in place. As with the other bolt, leave the nut and bolt finger tight at this time:



It is ok to wait and install the ignition and high beam switches last after the rest of the column is completely assembled, but I like to do it early because it makes it easier to hold the ignition switch and high beam pushrods in place while installing the upper housing assembly. This is where we should be at this point:



Here's the main shaft assembly:



One of the main safety features of the steering column is that this shaft assembly is collapsible. This is done by using a telescoping tube design with an injection-molded plastic key to lock the tube and shaft together:



This plastic key will shear when the torso hits the steering wheel during a severe collision, allowing the shaft to collapse into the tube instead of punching your heart out through your spine. When a column is dropped on its end or a hammer is used to knock the steering wheel loose this is the part that is typically damaged, causing the column to rattle over bumps and sometimes feel like it has slack with a "click" feeling. Once this happens the shaft is considered non-repairable.

The main shaft connects to the stub shaft with a plastic ball joint that contains a spring to remove play:




Insert the ball assembly into the stub shaft sideways, then rotate ninety degrees to lock it into place:



Insert the main shaft "C" into the ball at a ninety degree angle, there's a slot in the stub shaft for this, then straighten the two shafts until they are aligned, thus locking the shafts together at the ball joint. There should be strong friction as the shafts are aligned and no play when you are done. The spring between the ball halves pushes them apart, taking the slack out of the ball joint.




Insert the shaft assembly into the tube and out through the lower bearing.



The upper housing contains most of the bits of the column. We'll start by installing the ignition lock cylinder cross shaft and gear.

Here is the ignition lock cylinder cross shaft and sector drive gear:



Insert the longer flat end through the upper housing and then into the gear. Orient the gear as shown:



Use a socket to support the gear and gently tap the cross shaft through until it seats fully in the gear. The gear should rotate freely:



The end of the shaft will protrude slightly, just far enough to expose the notches on the edges of the shaft:



Next, install the sector preload spring, it simply pushes into place in the bottom of the sector guide in the housing:





The upper housing also contains the upper and lower bearings for the stub shaft. When turning the steering wheel these bearings are what keep the wheel feeling "tight" as it rotates. The bearing balls are equally spaced in the upper housing by slotted retainers. Use grease to hold the balls in the retainers, then set the retainers into the races using more grease to hold them in place. The following pictures show the upper and lower bearings installed, with the tilt release lever installed for visual reference.


This is looking at the upper bearing:



And the lower bearing:



Here is the lock pin, this pin engages the notches in the edge of the lock plate and locks the steering wheel when the key is turned to the LOCK position:



Insert the lock pin into the upper housing as shown. Note how the groove on the bottom of the pin engages a bump on the gear:



Install the sector into the upper housing. Rotate the gear until the large tooth is pointed down and back, then insert the sector from the rear such that the large tooth engages the large notch of the sector. This is what it should look like with sector and lock pin installed:



Next will be the hardest part for most people, so I'll devote extra pictures and explanations of the parts relationships to help with this task. I'll begin with a brief description of how the various linkages work through the pivot point.

The ignition lock cylinder turns a cross shaft that goes through the column and into a gear. The gear engages a rack on the sector that moves up and down the column as the key is turned. The sector has an arch on the lower end that fits between two pins at the top end of the ignition switch pushrod which in turn goes down the length of the column to where it connects to the actual ignition switch. The arch stays connected to the ignition switch pushrod as the sector rotates about the tilt pivot pin when the column is tilted, without moving the pushrod. The pushrod pulls up as the key is turned toward the START position, and pushes down as the key is turned to the OFF position.

The high beam linkage is different, its pushrod goes past the tilt pivot pin and through the upper housing, then bends up into an arc. There is a curved follower that pushes against the arc of the pushrod, that follower in turn is pushed by the wiper switch which rotates on a pin when the turn signal stalk is pulled back. The curved bottom of the follower slides along the arc of the pushrod as the column is tilted up and down.

Here is the ignition sector, showing the inside with the arch at the right end and the rack at the left end:



Here's the high beam follower:



Here's a closeup view of the upper end of the ignition pushrod showing the two pegs:



Here are detailed views of how the sector and follower engage the two pushrods in various degrees of tilt. Note how the arched edge of the sector stays engaged between the two pegs on the aluminum molding at the top of the ignition switch pushrod, and how the high beam follower matches the arc of the end of the high beam switch pushrod:




The tilt adjustment is maintained by toothed pawls that engage the pins in the top of the lower housing. When the tilt release lever is pulled it releases the pawls and allows the upper column to pivot up and down on the tilt pivot pins. The notches in the two pawls are offset 1/2 tooth from each other, this allows the column tilt to adjust in 1/2 tooth increments. Only one pawl is ever engaged with a pin at a time. Here's a pic of the pawls in the released position:

[img]pffimages3/45tilteddownshot.jpg[/img]

Now to assemble the upper housing assembly to the lower portion of the column. There are several things that need to be accomplished simultaneously while installing the upper housing assembly. The ignition sector needs to properly engage the pegs on the ignition switch push rod, making sure that the pushrod end fits into the groove in the side of the lower housing. The high beam pushrod needs to be properly located through the lower left quadrant of the upper housing, the tilt pawls need to properly engage the pins in the top of the lower housing, and the pivot pin holes need to be aligned. On manual columns the key release lever slot needs to engage the pin sticking out of the top of the ignition pushrod. Also, the lock pin needs to stay properly engaged as it tends to fall out during this step. Though this is the most intimidating part of the build, it's actually not as hard as it sounds. One helpful tip is to keep the stub shaft pulled toward you as you maneuver the upper housing into place, this will help keep the balls in the lower race from being accidentally dislodged during this part of the assembly process.

Start by pulling the ignition switch pushrod all the way up toward the top of the column. Pull the high beam switch pushrod up, but not past the bend in the rod. Insert the stub shaft into the back of the upper housing assembly as you bring the housing assembly toward the lower housing. Rotate the upper housing assembly clockwise about 1/4 turn, this should be enough to allow working the upper end of the high beam pushrod through the large hole in the lower left quadrant of the upper housing assembly. It is assumed that the tilt lever is installed at this point.

[img]pffimages3/57upperhousinginstall1.jpg[/img]

Once the upper end of the high beam pushrod is properly placed, rotate the upper housing counterclockwise as you bring it closer to the lower housing. Rotate the ignition cross shaft as needed to extend the arched end of the sector, then engage the arched end of the sector with the upper end of the ignition switch pushrod. Make sure that the arched end fits between the two pegs. A common mistake is to have the arch in front of the pegs, this will cause the ignition to only turn off, and then not be able to turn on again. Here's a pic showing proper engagement:



Keep the upper housing tilted up at a moderate angle during this process, it makes it easier to engage the tilt pawls. Speaking of pawls, the next step is to engage them. With the upper housing tilted up, carefully push it onto the column while pulling the tilt lever all the way back. You can see the pawls align with the pins like this:



The upper housing should be rotated to its normal position at this point as you continue to work the housing down. Make sure that the high beam pushrod is moved down to it's approximate final location, though it doesn't have to actually be set into the high beam switch at this time. If you can release the tilt lever and the upper housing becomes locked into place then the pawls are engaged properly. This is what it should look like, notice the relationship between the upper housing and the lower shroud:



With the pawls engaged, tilt the upper housing downward to bring the pivot pin holes into alignment. It may take more than one "grab" of the tilt pawls, i.e. pull the lever and then push the top in to engage the next tooth in the pawl assembly. Once the pivot pin holes are in alignment this is what it should look like:



Make sure the sector is properly engaged by holding the upper housing in place while turning the ignition switch cross shaft to verify that the pushrod moves up and down properly.

Whew! The hardest part is now done! Now all that's left is to finish assembly of the column. Start by inserting the pivot pins:








Use a brass punch and hammer to tap the pins in until they're flush, then again verify that the ignition switch pushrod is properly engaged by rotating the cross shaft in both directions and checking that the ignition switch pushrod moves both up and down. You can use the ignition lock cylinder as a convenient way to turn the cross shaft.

Here's an explanation of how the ignition key release lever functions in the manual column. The key release lever (pictured earlier) wraps over the top of the column inside the lower shroud. On the left side of the column the lever has an L-shaped notch in it. There is a pin that sticks out from the top of the ignition pushrod (autos have the same pin that doesn't do anything) that fits into that notch. As the ignition lock cylinder is rotated to the OFF position the sector pushes the ignition pushrod down until the pin hits the end of the notch and stops the key from turning any further. This is the OFF position of the ignition switch.
[img]
[/img]http://cliff.hostkansas.com//pffimages3/keyreleaselever1.jpg[/img]

Depressing the key release lever rotates it clockwise and raises the L-shaped notch such that the pin can now move further down as the key is rotated to the LOCK and ACCESSORY positions.





Since the release lever is spring loaded the notch will pop back the next time the key is turned forward.
Leaving the column tilted to the highest position for now, the next step is to install the lock pin retraction spring. Here's the spring with its 1/4" head retaining screw:

[img]pffimages3/65lockpinretractspring.jpg[/img]

Start by hooking the spring into the groove on the end of the lock pin. It may be necessary to rotate the gear forward or back to get enough room to do this:





Once the hook is in place insert the loop into the large pocket on the side of the gear:



Then insert the 1/4" head screw through the bottom of the spring and tighten into place:



There is a hefty spring used to lift the wheel up when the tilt lever is pulled back. This spring has a centering guide in one end and a retaining cap with ears that holds it in place at the other end. Here are those parts:



Here is an inside view of the spring hole in the upper housing, you can see the notches that the cap ears fit into as well as the ledge that they engage when you turn the cap 90? clockwise after pushing it down:



And here's the same view with the spring cap in its final position:



You'll note that the open area below the ledge (as viewed from the top side) doesn't have a bottom, so you can push the cap down as far as you want without worrying about damaging it. The cap only has to go in about a quarter inch or so to get the ears past the ledge before rotating it to the locked position. It is important to keep the cap square to the bore, otherwise the steel ears will dig into the aluminum housing and get stuck. A Phillips screwdriver works well for keeping the cap straight when inserting it.

Pull the tilt lever back and raise the column to the highest tilt position. Insert the lower guide into the tilt spring and then feed the assembly into the large hole in the bottom of the upper housing. Make sure the lower guide cup engages the peg in the lower housing:



Use a large Phillips screwdriver to push the cap down with the ears aligned to the grooves in the sides of the hole. When the cap is deep enough turn it about one quarter turn to the right to lock it into place.





Tilt the upper housing down to the straight position, then remove the tilt lever.

At this point we're done with the tilt mechanism and the lower column. It's time to start assembling the upper shroud, that's the plastic housing that contains the wiper switch and the ignition lock cylinder. We'll start with the shroud:



The first thing to install in the upper shroud is the wiper switch. The switch shown is the basic one, the variable wipe switch installs the same way though it looks slightly different. Here's the basic switch, shown with its pivot rod:



Insert the switch into the housing like this:



Rotate the switch so that the pivot rod holes align with the holes in the shroud, then insert the pivot rod:

http://cliff.hostkansas.com...erswitchinstall2.jpg

Push the rod down until it's bottomed out:



If you have cruise control, take the cruise stalk wire and insert it through the hole in the side of the upper shroud and route it under the wiper switch like this:



You can snap the the cruise stalk into the wiper at this time, there's a detent ball down in the wiper switch that engages the groove on the end of the stalk. Put a bit of grease here to make it easier to remove in the future:



Thread the wire down through the lower left quadrant of the column, below the high beam push rod:



Here's the tilt lever housing:



Take grease and use it to stick the high beam follower to the inside of the tilt lever housing:



Set the tilt lever housing in place against the upper housing, make sure that the high beam follower engages the high beam pushrod properly and that the other end of the pushrod is inserted into the high beam switch:



High beam follower correctly contacting the pushrod:



Tilt lever housing seated against column, note how the follower is oriented:



High beam pushrod seated in pocket on high beam switch:



Now it's time to assemble the shroud to the upper housing. Guide it straight into place, noting how the tilt lever housing fits into the upper shroud and making sure that the upper end of the high beam follower fits into its guide hole in the upper shroud. A screwdriver is helpful for guiding the high beam follower into place as it often times will get bumped out of alignment during assembly. Also make sure that the lock pin inserts into its hole, and pull the slack out of the cruise wire as the housing seats in place:



Once properly assembled, the end of the high beam follower is easily visible pushing up against the bottom of the wiper switch:



The tilt cover will fit tightly into the bottom of the shroud:

http://cliff.hostkansas.com...gintouppershroud.jpg

And the cruise stalk wire will be routed through the column like this (tilt lever housing removed for clarity):



Install the tilt lever now.

The three screws that hold the upper shroud in place:



Use a T-30 Torx driver to tighten the three silver flat-headed Torx screws into place:



You can see the lock pin visible at the upper left.


Next, thread the wiper switch connector down through the slot in the lower left quadrant of the column:




Pull the slack out of the wiper wiring harness, it should be routed like this:



Insert the ignition lock cylinder into the upper shroud. Note how the green key presence switch plunger and indexing tab on the lock cylinder collar fit into the groove in the bottom of the lock cylinder hole in the upper shroud:



There are two kinds of lock cylinder retainer screws used on Fieros, the '84-'86?, and the '87-'88?. The early screws use a Phillips head screwdriver and have the threads on the end of the screw, and the later screws use a T-20 Torx driver and have the threads up under the head. Note: The upper shrouds are different as well due to the two different thread locations, though they will interchange on the column as long as the matching screws are used.

This picture shows both types, the late style is on the left and the early style is on the right:



Insert and tighten the lock cylinder retaining screw. Note, the late style screw has a double helix. Whenever reinstalling self-tapping screws into plastic it is a good idea to turn the screw backwards until you feel the screw "drop" a little, this indicates that the threads are engaged and the screw can be retightened without damaging the plastic threads in the part. The double helix on the late screw has two different heights, so if it seems to be hard to tighten down you may have to back it out to the second "drop" to make sure the threads are correctly engaged.



The key presence switch assembly tells the chime unit when the key is inserted into the ignition lock cylinder, and consists of a spring and the switch itself:



Assemble the spring and key presence switch by hooking the spring's tab over one end of the switch and rotating it into place:



Insert the switch assembly into the rectangular hole in the upper shroud. The key must be out of the lock cylinder for this step:



The switch should be fully seated in the hole. The two metal tabs sticking up contact pads on the back of the turn signal, then to two wires in the turn signal harness. When the key is insterted into the lock cylinder the key tip pushes the green plunger outward, depressing the key presence switch contacts and closing the key presence circuit to the blue chime unit.


Here's the turn signal switch assembly. Note the flat connector and the way the wiring is formed to be parallel with the connector:



Insert the flat connector down through the same slot as the wiper switch harness. Note the orientation of the connector:




Pull the slack out of the wires as you bring the switch assembly up to the shroud, then seat the switch in place. You'll need to click the center part of the switch to the right turn signal position to access the top screw:



There are three screws total:



Move the switch back to the center position.

The hazard switch button parts:



It screws into the turn signal switch assembly through a hole in the side of the column using a small Phillips screwdriver:




The turn signal follower and screw:



Insert the end of the follower into the upper shroud and engage the follower peg with the slot in the wiper switch, align the other end of the follower with the recess in the turn signal, then insert and tighten the screw with a Phillips screwdriver:



The upper bearing inner race and preload cup. Note how the preload cup fingers fit into the race:



Slide the race and preload cup down the shaft:



Ensure that the fingers of the preload cup fit down inside the race all the way around.

The upper bearing preload spring:



Slide the preload spring down to the preload cup:



A top view of the cancel cam, the tube sticking up holds the horn button contactor:



A bottom view of the cancel cam showing the metal horn contactor ring. The two bumps on the side of the cancel cam shaft push against the circular cancel springs in the turn signal as the wheel is turned, canceling the turn signals as the steering wheel is turned:



Slide the cancel cam down over the preload spring:



The lock plate and lock plate retaining snap ring:




Note the notches around the edge, these are what the lock pin engages when the key is turned to the LOCK position. You'll also note that at the top of the center hole of the lock plate that one of the splines is missing. The lock plate is keyed so that it will only go on the upper shaft one way. Rotate the cancel cam so that the horn contactor post fits through the hole in the lock plate and slide the lock plate onto the shaft, followed by the retaining snap ring. Note the recess in the center of the lock plate:



To retract the lock pin out of the way I put the key in and turned it to the RUN position.

Attach the lock plate compressor tool to the center shaft then pull the shaft up as you rotate it to ensure that the lower bearing race seats in the bearings properly. Use the compressor to push the lock plate down the shaft until it bottoms, when it does the snap ring groove should just be visible. If the lock plate won't go all the way down then the stub shaft isn't seated properly in the bottom bearing of the upper housing:



Use a screwdriver or two to push the retaining ring down until it snaps into the groove:



Once the retaining ring is seated remove the compressor tool.

The lock plate edge cover:




Around the edge of the lock plate there are three areas where tabs extend out a bit:



Here's a back view of the lock plate with trim installed, you can see how the three tabs of the trim piece engage the lock plate tabs:



Snap the trim cover into place:



Moving back to the bottom of the column, here is the centering cone and preload spring with retaining clip:



Slide the cone and spring onto the end of the shaft, then push the retaining clip down the shaft until the spring is compressed by about half:



The wiring sleeve:



It protects the wiring as it exits the lower shroud. Insert the wiring for the turn signal and wiper switch into the sleeve:



Then slip the sleeve up into the lower shroud. Align the square holes in the sleeve with the nuts welded to the column tube and press the sleeve into place:



Note: The cruise wire doesn't go through the sleeve.

The upper column bracket and bolts:



Use a 13mm socket to bolt the bracket to the column. Because of the way the holes are spaced it will only go on one way:
Here's another safety feature of the column. The aluminum bolting pads on the bracket are held in place by extruded plastic. When the torso hits the column or the column is driven into the torso the plastic shears, allowing the column bracket to pull free of the bolting pads and crush down to a shorter length:



The last thing to do is to adjust the ignition and high beam switches. Start by removing the high beam switch bolt and nut, then the switch. Rotate the key to the LOCK position. Loosen the stud-headed bolt that retains the ignition switch, then slide the switch so that it "detents" into the off position, this will be the second to last detent on the switch. Retighten the bolt, then turn the key to the various positions while observing the switch movement and detent positions. Reattach the high beam switch making sure to get the end of the pushrod properly engaged in the switch socket, then adjust the switch to remove the slack from the pushrod. Tighten the nut and screw and that's it, you've successfully built a GM tilt column from scratch.

Now wasn't that easy?

After installing the steering wheel, here's how the horn button contactor goes into the cancel cam.

Wheels with a center button style horn use a captive plunger. The spring pushes the "nail" or plunger up against a metal plate in the underside of the horn button. When the horn button is depressed the metal plate contacts the horn latch clips and provides a ground path through the column to activate the horn relay:





The paddle horn button wheel has a spring-loaded contactor and wire that goes into the cancel cam:



It installs similarly to the GT plunger, push in and turn to lock the peg into the groove:



The steering wheel is held on with a 20mm hex nut with a 14mm x 1.5 thread, then a triangular safety snap ring goes on last:
Some other column trivia:

When the steering wheel was assembled to the column on the car production line the assembler used a chisel to make matching index marks on the steering wheel hub and the end of the column. You can see it in this closeup:



The marks typically will align with the wide spline on the top of the stub shaft.

Comments, suggestions, and questions are welcome, and I will revise and rephotograph as requested to make this post more complete.

Legal disclaimer: No furry critters were hurt during this, though several were fed. This may not be reproduced in whole or in part, or distributed in any way without me knowing about it, especially if there's money involved. In fact, if there's money involved I want a cut, and not the kind that needs stitches either. Column assembled on a closed course by a professionally unpaid mechanic. Do not attempt without adequate safety gear and tools. Not responsible for lost kittens or marbles. Your mileage may vary. Remember, a column is a critical part of the car's operating and safety systems, sloppy workmanship can kill.

JazzMan




Brad


This post is also available on any number (perhaps hundreds) of servers around the world. http://web.archive.org is where I picked this up.

If there is too large of a fuss I shall make another complete walkthrough, name it Cliff's property and go from there because things like this should remain part of the community, unless of course a certain person wants to claim any posts that discuss repairing steering columns.

[This message has been edited by twofatguys (edited 03-10-2012).]

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Robert 2
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Report this Post03-10-2012 06:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Robert 2Send a Private Message to Robert 2Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Nice move

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Cliff Pennock
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Report this Post03-22-2012 10:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Cliff PennockClick Here to visit Cliff Pennock's HomePageClick Here to Email Cliff PennockSend a Private Message to Cliff PennockEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Today I got an email from Jazzman asking me to remove the information quoted by twofatguys above because he claims it's copyrighted information.

This prompted me to contact a lawyer specialized in Dutch copyright laws. PFF and its server resides in the Netherlands, therefore Dutch law applies to any and all content posted on this forum.

As it turns out, Jazzman cannot demand this information to be removed from the forum. By posting on the forum he implicitly granted PFF a license to keep, archive (and even edit) this information as long as it does not contain any private information from the author that falls under Dutch privacy laws. This license is permanent and irrevocable. This also applies to quoted information, as twofatguys' post above. This is set in law and does not have to be explicitly mentioned in the forum's Terms of Use.

This even grants me the right to restore Jazzman's original posts (the ones he deleted).

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Gall757
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Report this Post03-22-2012 10:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

That's good news. Thanks for going to the trouble, Cliff. We all should be aware that when you hit the 'submit' button.....it's property of 'the cloud'.

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Cliff Pennock
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Report this Post03-22-2012 11:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Cliff PennockClick Here to visit Cliff Pennock's HomePageClick Here to Email Cliff PennockSend a Private Message to Cliff PennockEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

That's good news. Thanks for going to the trouble, Cliff. We all should be aware that when you hit the 'submit' button.....it's property of 'the cloud'.


Well, not necessarily - not in every country. For instance, in Australia laws are completely different and he would be able to demand his posts to be removed. But as it is, not so in the Netherlands (and I'm guessing it's the same in the United States).

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topcat
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Report this Post03-22-2012 12:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for topcatClick Here to Email topcatSend a Private Message to topcatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Glad to see this thread revived. There are lots of helpful threads on teh forum, but this one was really HELPFUL for me. The tilt column was terrifying to tear into for me. After reading thru this thread a year or two back I bit the bullet and tore into mine to find that the photo step by step made it really easy.

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fireboss
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Report this Post03-22-2012 04:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for firebossClick Here to Email firebossSend a Private Message to firebossEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:

Today I got an email from Jazzman asking me to remove the information quoted by twofatguys above because he claims it's copyrighted information.

This prompted me to contact a lawyer specialized in Dutch copyright laws. PFF and its server resides in the Netherlands, therefore Dutch law applies to any and all content posted on this forum.
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TO: TWOFATGUYS TO CLIFF PENNOCK 'WELL PLAYED SIR' +++ FOR THE FELLAS

[This message has been edited by fireboss (edited 03-22-2012).]

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avengador1
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Report this Post03-22-2012 05:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for avengador1Click Here to Email avengador1Send a Private Message to avengador1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Normally when one posts on a public forum it is understood that anything they post becomes public property on that forum, unless they have specified upfront about any limitations on it's use and have some sort of copyright marks or warnings attached on or in it. Jazzman's articles had and have none of these.
The articles are basically out in the public eye and are free for anyone to see or use, as long as there are no restrictions posted on or in it. Some of the forums I am on even restrict any editing, after a set period of time, to prevent people from doing just what Jazzman did. One can't just come back at some later date, even years later like Jazzman did, and claim that an article was copyrighted. That ship had sailed a long time ago.
Jazzman should be made to understand that he can face libel charges for what he has alleged about Cliff on this forum and in his communications with him. Maybe he should be the one sending his lawyer's contact information (if he actually has one) to Cliff, so he can be sued for libel, especially if he keeps harrasing Cliff.
Jazzman had been showing his true colors even before he was banned for cause, this is just more of his true nature showing through. He should spend his time and energy pursuing more fruitful endeavors or join the hater forum and get over it.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 03-22-2012).]

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RWDPLZ
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Report this Post03-22-2012 08:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

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