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Author
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Topic: Multi (8) throttle body Northstar!
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ryan.hess
Member Posts: 19149
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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Beautiful!
btw, the stock air horns would make an easy transition into an airbox. Most fit right into a plastic cutout that houses the air filter... Can't make it much simpler than "cut hole, insert horn"  IP: Logged |
Russ544
Member Posts: 2092
From: S.W. Oregon
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by ryan.hess:
Beautiful!
btw, the stock air horns would make an easy transition into an airbox. Most fit right into a plastic cutout that houses the air filter... Can't make it much simpler than "cut hole, insert horn" |
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you must have seen the air horns on the TBs in my last pic.... actually they'll be used to go out of an airbox, not into it, and yes.. I do have a plan but this is a project just for my IMSA, and won't be a part of the standard systems for sale.[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 02-22-2008).] IP: Logged |
greg288
Member Posts: 13
From: San Diego, Ca. USA
Registered: Jan 2008
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Russ! You dared jeopardize intake production by going on the zip line! Thank the good Lord you weren't injured.......lol!!
The work looks outstanding as always....impeccable craftsmanship. I hope you get the time to keep it up.
Greg.IP: Logged |
Russ544
Member Posts: 2092
From: S.W. Oregon
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by greg288:
Russ! You dared jeopardize intake production by going on the zip line! Thank the good Lord you weren't injured.......lol!!
The work looks outstanding as always....impeccable craftsmanship. I hope you get the time to keep it up.
Greg. |
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I've flown hang gliders for over 15 years, so the zip lines shouldn't even make a hickup on my insurance quote you're second in the production line behind Charlies, so if I live another month you should be safe 
Russ544IP: Logged |
Russ544
Member Posts: 2092
From: S.W. Oregon
Registered: Jun 2003
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Powder coating 101.
I'm in my shop at home today working on some powder coating. It's a fact that many new technics come out of what was actually a mistake, and this was one of those cases. I was finding the various colors on the manifolds, created by brazing, welding and grinding, were showing through after baking, with the type of powder I wanted to use. the part appears totally covered when the coating is in powder form, until it starts to flow in the oven, when it becomes somewhat translusent and all sorts of unpleasant things show up. I decided to try first coating the part white to give it a base color. when I was ready to put on the finish coat, I discovered I was running low on it. I sprayed anyway, and it was just a tad short, although it did appear covered so I baked anyway.
I do believe I've found my trademark powder coating tecnique for this project
more to come,
Russ544IP: Logged |
Russ544
Member Posts: 2092
From: S.W. Oregon
Registered: Jun 2003
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It was such a nice day here today I ended up spending a lot of time outside and not working in the shop much. but I did get a couple things done, mostly on the system that will be going on my IMSA. I put most everything together to see how all the new parts go together, but it will be coming apart one more time in a week or so, as I still need to surface the bottom of the flanges. the machine shop charged me $70.00 last time for the prototype set, so I figured I could pay for my own dang surfacing machine in short order at that rate. I purchased a 4" x 36" belt type surfacer, and should have it in a week or so. in the meantime here's a couple new pics to tide you over I think the new method of using vacuum "rails" instead of individual hoses has cleaned up the look considerably.
Wile we have a little time here, I have a favor to ask of you-all that have been following along on this odyssey. I have a very good handle now on what I'd need to charge for these things to get out of the hole I've dug for myself, but I'm still curious as to what you would expect this package to sell for. don't worry about having any influence on the price, as, like I said, that's already been established.
Just imagine you saw this system in a speed shop window. what does the price tag on it say?
Thanks,
Russ544[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 03-02-2008).] IP: Logged |
jdv
Member Posts: 49
From:
Registered: Dec 2006
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Russ the sound is priceless!  IP: Logged |
xunedeinx
Member Posts: 33
From: Canton, The North Country, NY
Registered: Nov 2007
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Being intakes, superchargers, and other related stuff goes for 2-5k, is say about the same.
Id be willing to pay a max of, idk, 2750ish?
Mainly bc id rather have a blowerr then ITB's, though the sound IS to die for!IP: Logged |
Steven Snyder
Member Posts: 2893
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Mar 2004
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Looks like $2200 with all that's shown in the pic there.. injectors, rails, TBs, velocity stacks, etc..IP: Logged |
Will
Member Posts: 9238
From: Where you least expect me
Registered: Jun 2000
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Similar setups for small Chevies are in the $3K range.
You have cheaper throttles, they typically don't involve as much labor (castings vs. fabrications, etc).
I'll say $2500.
That is definitely a nice looking package.[This message has been edited by Will (edited 03-03-2008).] IP: Logged |
3.6lvvt6spdgt
Member Posts: 678
From:
Registered: Jun 2007
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i dont know how much you selling for ??????????????? lol jk if i had a north star idsay 2500.00 to 3500.00 depending on the responce and hp gain over stockIP: Logged |
Russ544
Member Posts: 2092
From: S.W. Oregon
Registered: Jun 2003
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Actually I'll be selling these for $3,225.oo as pictured (+ shipping and USA only). if a person want's to get there own velocity stacks, as shown, deduct $125.00 from that. otherwise it's a bolt on and turn the key deal. all sensors, injectors, fuel rail, etc are included and it will come fully assembled and pre-tested on my mule engine. several people here locally think I'm $1,000.oo to low on that price. I know 3225 is a lot of money, but believe it or not I'm not making any where near my normal shop rate at that price.
I owe, I owe, it's off to work I go,
Russ544IP: Logged |
Will
Member Posts: 9238
From: Where you least expect me
Registered: Jun 2000
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Yeah, that looks VERY labor intensive.IP: Logged |
THE BEAST
Member Posts: 1141
From: PORT SAINT LUCIE,FLORIDA,USA
Registered: Dec 2000
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Russ, it does look good, but.. To me the price not only has to back up the looks and the new sound of the engine, but with $3XXX price tag, I need to see some dyno numbers! Keep in mind that with a supercharger's tag price you'll get at least + 75Hp...What do I get with this intake 30Hp???
JGIP: Logged |
Russ544
Member Posts: 2092
From: S.W. Oregon
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by THE BEAST:
Russ, it does look good, but.. To me the price not only has to back up the looks and the new sound of the engine, but with $3XXX price tag, I need to see some dyno numbers! Keep in mind that with a supercharger's tag price you'll get at least + 75Hp...What do I get with this intake 30Hp???
JG |
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what you "get" with this intake is a show stopping look. I thought I'd made it pretty clear that I was never after any HP number increase, nor do I claim any. wile I suspect there will be a HP increase, and there certainly is a response increase, my main goal all along has been the look. I might take it to a dyno someday (if I can find one within a days drive of here in Podunkville), but it would be strictly for my own curiosity. no more, no less, and it's certainly not a priority of mine.
If the wow factor isn't worth the price to you, then I certainly don't have a problem with that. it's a very small percentage of us that would be willing to pay for that, but I am one who would, and have put my money where my mouth is on this one .... bigtime
Thanks,
Russ544
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It's just like building a canoe out of a log. first you cut down a tree........ then you cut off everything that doesn't look like a canoe.[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 03-04-2008).] IP: Logged |
cptsnoopy
Member Posts: 2029
From: phoenix, AZ, USA
Registered: Jul 2003
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It will cost more than I have invested in my Fiero (not including labor) but I think it is well worth it. Your setup by itself will make the car unique. If it does make the holley 950 more streetable than using it with the stock manifold then that is another chunk of cash saved.
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Erik
Member Posts: 5296
From: Des Moines, Iowa
Registered: Jul 2002
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| | | quote | Originally posted by Russ544:
Actually I'll be selling these for $3,225.oo as pictured (+ shipping and USA only). if a person want's to get there own velocity stacks, as shown, deduct $125.00 from that. otherwise it's a bolt on and turn the key deal. all sensors, injectors, fuel rail, etc are included and it will come fully assembled and pre-tested on my mule engine. several people here locally think I'm $1,000.oo to low on that price. I know 3225 is a lot of money, but believe it or not I'm not making any where near my normal shop rate at that price.
I owe, I owe, it's off to work I go,
Russ544 |
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Awesome! look with the velocity stacks What are you using for an ECM? 7730?
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Russ544
Member Posts: 2092
From: S.W. Oregon
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by Erik:
Awesome! look with the velocity stacks What are you using for an ECM? 7730?
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My IMSA has the 7730, and the test moter has a Holly Commander on it, but basicly anything that runs the stock Cadillac injection should run this just fine.
Russ544IP: Logged |
Steven Snyder
Member Posts: 2893
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Mar 2004
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How much does it weigh?
Are the injectors flow-tested?IP: Logged |
Russ544
Member Posts: 2092
From: S.W. Oregon
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by Steven Snyder:
How much does it weigh?
Are the injectors flow-tested? |
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22.5 lb
all injectors are sonic cleaned and flow tested by WitchHunter Performance unless they just came off a known good running engine.
Russ544IP: Logged |
THE BEAST
Member Posts: 1141
From: PORT SAINT LUCIE,FLORIDA,USA
Registered: Dec 2000
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| | | quote | Originally posted by Russ544:
what you "get" with this intake is a show stopping look. I thought I'd made it pretty clear that I was never after any HP number increase, nor do I claim any. wile I suspect there will be a HP increase, and there certainly is a response increase, my main goal all along has been the look. I might take it to a dyno someday (if I can find one within a days drive of here in Podunkville), but it would be strictly for my own curiosity. no more, no less, and it's certainly not a priority of mine.
If the wow factor isn't worth the price to you, then I certainly don't have a problem with that. it's a very small percentage of us that would be willing to pay for that, but I am one who would, and have put my money where my mouth is on this one .... bigtime
Thanks,
Russ544
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Russ you well know that I'm not here to bring you down, and I'm sorry if my thoughts did that. I just wanted to express my self and maybe because my income has decreased to nearly nothing this days, $3XXX seem almost like an astronomical figure to me. Perhaps some day in the future I will be able to afford this wow factor since I too like most of us don't mind having it. I do appreciate that you've taking the time to do the research and come through with your goal, because now we your customers have the benefit to own one too. If the money is there that is... Are there any other more affordable options for those who are less fortunate, but who can still fab stuff?
Take care,
JG
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Russ544
Member Posts: 2092
From: S.W. Oregon
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by THE BEAST:
Russ you well know that I'm not here to bring you down, and I'm sorry if my thoughts did that. I just wanted to express my self and maybe because my income has decreased to nearly nothing this days, $3XXX seem almost like an astronomical figure to me. Perhaps some day in the future I will be able to afford this wow factor since I too like most of us don't mind having it. I do appreciate that you've taking the time to do the research and come through with your goal, because now we your customers have the benefit to own one too. If the money is there that is... Are there any other more affordable options for those who are less fortunate, but who can still fab stuff?
Take care,
JG
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JG,
Perhaps I owe YOU an apology if I sounded scolding in my response. I did not have that intent however. I know your financial situation, and it IS a lot of money, but unfortunatly I did the best I could at trimming the costs on this thing as much as I could, without compromising the quality. My business is starting to get very demanding this time of year, so it may be next fall before I can do it, but I do intend to make some parts of this setup available separately for those who can fab, and want to save some money that way. one of the labor intensive parts of the manifold is putting together the injector "shed", machining the stainless steel bung, silver soldering it in etc, so I may try using another TB that I can use the existing injector port in it. I don't think it would be nearly as effeciant, but I do plan to try it anyway just to see. if that works out there would be a cost savings, but how much I couldn't say at this point. regardless, what I'm saying is that this is an ongoing process, and I'll try to help anyone who want to have one of these to obtain one.... they just might have to be very very patient for that to happen
Cheerio,
Russ544IP: Logged |
THE BEAST
Member Posts: 1141
From: PORT SAINT LUCIE,FLORIDA,USA
Registered: Dec 2000
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You're the MAN!
JGIP: Logged |
Russ544
Member Posts: 2092
From: S.W. Oregon
Registered: Jun 2003
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Sorry guys but I just went for a drive with the ITB installed, and it's just soooo cool I may have to double the price
It was a pretty fair day today, so even though I still can't get another car in my shop I was able to install the "current version" itb on my IMSA, out in the carport.
the current version is an inch or so taller than the prototype, so with the velocity stacks installed, the ones on the right side are just about suction darts on the underside of the decklid when it's closed. that problem wil be taken care of with a hole saw, and by fabricating a "shaker" hood bubble. I still need to clean up some wiring and hose routing, but it's in there for good this time. I went for a short drive up my rural road about an hour ago, and the smile that's stuck on my face may be permanent. the sounds this thing makes under acceleration are just fricking unreal. I simply could not be happier with the outcome of this project.
I have one itb setup ready for final assembly (sold) and one more that's about 2/3 done ( Greg... are you in?), but after that It may be a wile before I can get more of these put together for a wile. my real job is getting really busy now, and will soon require 10-12 hour days, for the next several months, before sanity returns in mid July.
Russ544[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 03-17-2008).] IP: Logged |
Erik
Member Posts: 5296
From: Des Moines, Iowa
Registered: Jul 2002
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| | | quote | Originally posted by Russ544:
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awwww thats just the most beautiful engine i've ever seen in a Fiero
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Erik
Member Posts: 5296
From: Des Moines, Iowa
Registered: Jul 2002
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lets see a video with it performing !!!IP: Logged |
Russ544
Member Posts: 2092
From: S.W. Oregon
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by Erik:
lets see a video with it performing !!! |
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The wife is gone for most of the weekend, but when she gets back I'll see if I can get her to help me shoot a vid and I'll put up a link to U-tube for ya..[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 03-08-2008).] IP: Logged |
Russ544
Member Posts: 2092
From: S.W. Oregon
Registered: Jun 2003
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winter has apparantly returned for a wile here, but I'll get that vid for you as soon as it clears again. I haven't forgotten about it
Russ[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 03-17-2008).] IP: Logged |
Erik
Member Posts: 5296
From: Des Moines, Iowa
Registered: Jul 2002
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| | | quote | Originally posted by Russ544:
winter has apparantly returned for a wile here, but I'll get that vid for you as soon as it clears again. I haven't forgotten about it
Russ
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Sweeet!! I am currently out in my shop messing with my N* swap in progress. The weather here is rainy but at least its not that cold and snow.
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AkursedX
Member Posts: 2428
From: Royal Oak, MI
Registered: Aug 2000
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$3225 is a fair price for that intake. If I were doing a northstar I would buy that in a second. I hope you are advertising this outside of the Fiero community as well. Northstars get swapped into plenty of other things and I think this would look awesome in a hotrod.------------------
'88 GT- 257rwhp 319rwft/lbs 12.95@106.1mph IP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 19149
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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| | | quote | Originally posted by AkursedX:
I hope you are advertising this outside of the Fiero community as well. Northstars get swapped into plenty of other things and I think this would look awesome in a hotrod.
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Yes, and Fiero owners are cheapskates. Target the dune buggy crowd... They drop 50k on their sand rails like it's just another toy.  IP: Logged |
cptsnoopy
Member Posts: 2029
From: phoenix, AZ, USA
Registered: Jul 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by ryan.hess:
Yes, and Fiero owners are cheapskates. |
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Huhhhh!?? 
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Russ544
Member Posts: 2092
From: S.W. Oregon
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
Huhhhh!??
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ROTFL I think Ryan intended that to mean "most" Fiero owners are cheapskates, Charlie.
Russ544[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 03-19-2008).] IP: Logged |
Russ544
Member Posts: 2092
From: S.W. Oregon
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by AkursedX:
$3225 is a fair price for that intake. If I were doing a northstar I would buy that in a second. I hope you are advertising this outside of the Fiero community as well. Northstars get swapped into plenty of other things and I think this would look awesome in a hotrod.
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The problem I have is that my "real" job is just too demanding of my time for me to make these during 4-5 months of the year. from April until late July I have zero spare time to build injection systems................ however... I do intend to ramp things up a bit come next fall and winter. not just with this project, but I have a couple other projects under my hat that should be fun as well
As a side note: wile I was dialing in a new ITB system on my mule motor last weekend the patch job I did on that crack in the water jacket let go and filled my shop to capacity with steam. so it looks like I need to spend a little more time that I don't have right now to put my newly rebuilt heads onto another shortblock (which I aquired last month for that purpose). where is my clone when I need him?
Russ544IP: Logged |
cptsnoopy
Member Posts: 2029
From: phoenix, AZ, USA
Registered: Jul 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by Russ544:
ROTFL I think Ryan intended that to mean "most" Fiero owners are cheapskates, Charlie.
Russ544
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So true actually, I was just having fun. This is not the norm for me but I think it is the right thing for my project. I am pretty sure that the last high dollar items on my list are Archie's radiators, wheels and paint.IP: Logged |
Russ544
Member Posts: 2092
From: S.W. Oregon
Registered: Jun 2003
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I was able to spend the day in my garage today for a change, so the morning was spent stripping down a Northstar, which I recently acquired to replace the mule motor, which has become know as "the steam engine" . I'll pull the heads off the mule engine and put them on this one, as I just went through them a couple months ago. and before anyone asks.... yes, I did a very careful inspection of this block for cracks .
most of the head bolts came out kind of "soft" on the new motor, and I want this motor to be solid for the long term, so I decided to go ahead and install some NS300L head bolt inserts in it.
The first order of business was to clean up the head surface and cover it with two layers of masking tape to keep the chips from finding there way into the water jackets or oil drain down holes. a ball pean hammer was used to punch out for the head bolt holes.
As usual, I wasn't satisfied with the std kit supplied to install these inserts, so I drilled a 17/32 hole in the chunk of aluminum supplied as a tap block to now also be used as a drill block. seeings how God only saw fit to give me two hands, I also attached a piece of angle iron to the block so I could bolt it down to an ajacent head bolt during the drilling opperation. you can see why the masking tape is a good idea.
after all the holes were drilled out, a 3 flute tap was run down each hole, and followed by a 4 flute bottoming tap (both supplied in the kit). after that each hole was carefully cleaned out with brake cleaner and an extended tip on the air hose. this took a couple rounds in order to get every bit of oil residue out of the holes in preparation for the locktite.
a trial fit was done on each insert to make sure they went in to the required depth, and several did not, requiring another pass with the bottoming tap. as each insert passed the depth test it was left in possition for final assembly.
Then the lock tight went on and they were each inserted for the last time. I was really surprised at how long this whole opperation takes. I expected a couple hours, but it actually took up the better part of the day. the good news it that I shouldn't have to worry about it again.
Russ544IP: Logged |
Erik
Member Posts: 5296
From: Des Moines, Iowa
Registered: Jul 2002
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saran wrap works goodIP: Logged |
Russ544
Member Posts: 2092
From: S.W. Oregon
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by Erik:
saran wrap works good |
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Actually I think that would not be a good idea. grit could still easily get under the wrap at the holes, not to mention that the brake clean would eat it up. I think whatever you use should be something sticky so it seals around the bolt holes. shelf paper might work pretty well, but the cleaner might also attack that to some degree. the wide masking tape did work well however, as it's pretty resistant to solvents.
how's your project coming along Eric?
Russ544[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 03-30-2008).] IP: Logged |
Erik
Member Posts: 5296
From: Des Moines, Iowa
Registered: Jul 2002
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| | | quote | Originally posted by Russ544:
Actually I think that would not be a good idea. grit could still easily get under the wrap at the holes, not to mention that the brake clean would eat it up. I think whatever you use should be something sticky so it seals around the bolt holes. shelf paper might work pretty well, but the cleaner might also attack that to some degree. the wide masking tape did work well however, as it's pretty resistant to solvents.
how's your project coming along Eric?
Russ544
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It works for me. I don't use brake clean though. Tape would be better. Its coming along I still need to make my headers, really want to start in on the ITB soon but will probably just use the stock intake to get it on the road then build them with the freetime after completion of the swap. Also have changed thought on the trans, instead of usng a Muncie 4 speed, I think I will use a Getrag to avoid having to make a custom shift cable mount setup. Of course I could use the trick waterlog elimination method that is a remote mounted electric water pump but thats about $600.00
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Will
Member Posts: 9238
From: Where you least expect me
Registered: Jun 2000
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I've used packing tape before and it works fine. It's very thin and doesn't affect insert depth enough to worry about. I was wondering if your insert depth uncertainty was related to the thickness of the tape.IP: Logged |
