HMMM ..how the hell did that get on this thread? I bet Russ Northstar sounds very much like that. Anyway, the 1UZ would make one hell of a Fiero engine swap
If you find that your system works to your satisfaction, can you post a required parts list?
Erik, just wondering what you have been smoking? I can't seem to get that sound bite on my computer...
Hi Charlie. good to hear you're still alive and kicking. the second job hasn't killed you off yet afterall then?
ITB parts list:
2 06-07 Suzuki GSXR 600 throttle body assy. 2 4" block of aluminum (one for iac valve block and one for tps adaptor) 1 4" steel tube for throttle shaft extensions 1 various scraps of steel for brackets 8 13/4" mandrel bent exhaust tubing (45*) 2 3" x 18" x 1/4" plate steel 1 lathe 1 milling machine 1 mig welder 1 oxy acetalyn welder 1 plazma cutter 80 hours of free time
hope this helps
Russ
PS: oh ya,... I'll have one of what Eric has also
[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 12-27-2007).]
Eric. I have no idea why you're hearing the sound clip. it was posted earlier on this thread however. my current exhaust system consists of a piece of sewer pipe slipped over the Y pipe, just off the headers, and then stuck out a hole I cut in the shop wall. no muffler. when I first fired it up my first thought was "drag boat engine". no doubt the exhaust system has a lot to do with that, but it dose actually sound a lot like some alchol drag boats that I've heard. very quick reving (flex plate and no clutch weight helps there). somewhat more "American" than that sound clip, but no muscle car drone. I'll work on a place to post a clip in the next day or two. I'm kinda busy right now. Ahrrrr Ahrr Ahrr....
Joe. your Northstar does need one.... but that's not the sound of my engine. I'll post one of mine soon if I can get a decent rendition on my digi cam.
========
The only place this block is going it to the scrap yard to be melted down to make a few thousand beer cans (I could use a few full ones myself right now). I took a closer look at the crack today, and marked along side it with a felt tip pen so it shows up in the pic (although the water has made it easier to see now anyway): . . . . . . . . . Ya... that could be welded I guess........ if that was the end of the crack: . . .
I still can't believe I didn't see this a long time ago [ouch... ouch... ouch... kicks self in butt]
I do have another block, so I could take the guts out of this motor and put them into that block (the one that was missing 2 rod caps and some main bolts)..... or.. a guy is supposedly bringing me a 96 long block that leaked oil at the lower case seal (free). ....... Northstars seem to be kinda like Fieros in that once people find out you like them.... they want to, or know someone who wants to, give you more of them .
Aluminum engine? Weld that baby! You have to pre-heat aluminum before welding anyways so it will boil away any water. If you can TIG weld you are in business. Otherwise, a good welder should be able to lay a pretty TIG weld. I use MIG and it is not so pretty but gets the job done.
Nice work on the ITB's.
Not as easy as it sounds sometimes. The NorthStar uses the pink coolant, Dex-cool. That stuff gets deep into the poors of the aluminum and will contaminate the weld, badly. Just welding the Tstat housing for my Short Star swap took an unbelievable amount of cleaning, heating, baking, welding, re-welding, grinding....on and on. If I had a crack in the block and had to go thru all that to weld it, I would just get a new or good used block and scrap the cracked one.
Hi Charlie. good to hear you're still alive and kicking. the second job hasn't killed you off yet afterall then?
ITB parts list:
2 06-07 Suzuki GSXR 600 throttle body assy. 2 4" block of aluminum (one for iac valve block and one for tps adaptor) 1 4" steel tube for throttle shaft extensions 1 various scraps of steel for brackets 8 13/4" mandrel bent exhaust tubing (45*) 2 3" x 18" x 1/4" plate steel 1 lathe 1 milling machine 1 mig welder 1 oxy acetalyn welder 1 plazma cutter 80 hours of free time
hope this helps
Russ
PS: oh ya,... I'll have one of what Eric has also
Hey, Thanks Russ!,
Crap, I can come up with only a few of those parts... I am definitely out of it when it comes to the really nice goodies such as the lathe, milling machine and plasma cutter.
I will have to stick with the stock setup for now I guess.
Sorry to see that the block is not usable. I wonder how it got that way...
[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 12-27-2007).]
Crap, I can come up with only a few of those parts... I am definitely out of it when it comes to the really nice goodies such as the lathe, milling machine and plasma cutter.
I will have to stick with the stock setup for now I guess.
Sorry to see that the block is not usable. I wonder how it got that way...
It's much too early to speculate, but two (local) people have been watching my progress and have shown an interest in having me build them one. It might be cheeper for you to buy a lathe, milling machine and plasma cutter, but it is a real possibility that I could build a couple more. I have a couple ideas that would make the next ones a little easier/cheeper to build, and certainly more refined, but it still requires a LOT of labor (which equals money).
as to the cracked block, I got this one from a guy who had it sitting in an old shed with a 1/2 dozen other engines. it must have sat on end with #7 down, got water in it, and froze (that happens in some parts of the country you know ). I guess it's a slim posibility that it could have cracked during a wreak, but it seems less likely. I just put a coat of JB Quik on the crack, and that should allow me to still use this engine as a test mule, as long as I use a low presure rad cap.
[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 12-27-2007).]
If you going to make a small run of these, I am interested. Do you see any issues with AZ emissions? Do you think it will be street friendly using the Holley? PM me when and if you decide to make a few and let me know how much to start saving up.
If you going to make a small run of these, I am interested. Do you see any issues with AZ emissions? Do you think it will be street friendly using the Holley? PM me when and if you decide to make a few and let me know how much to start saving up.
Just curious what your idle rpm is in the video?
charlie
So you still plan to run with the Holley ecm? I'll keep that in mind. Because of my "cooling issues" , I haven't had a chance to run the thing closed loop yet, but when I was using the holley on the IMSA with the stock intake, it never idled as good as it does now with the itb setup. I'm running with the same base map that I developed for it before (which wasn't perfect by any means), and I haven't even plugged in the laptop to it yet to see where it's at with the ITBs. I did pull a plug out of #7 to check for water (none), and noted that it was running a bit rich now. what do you need for Az emissions? just a sniff test? I don't see any problem running this on the street other than air filtration issues and the like. I plan to make an air box for mine, but that wouldn't be a part of the package that I would make for others. As I stated before, it's still a little premature to say if or when I'll make more of these. a lot depends on how my future testing goes, and how well it performs in actual street trim, but I'll be working on that very soon. save up $4,500.oo or so, but you may not need it all. I'll let you know more on that later.
edit: I haven't checked the idle rpm yet, but it sounds like 800 or so. One reason I let it idle a few second on the vid clip, between blips, was for the benifit of those here who have prior experience with the holley, and it's idle quirks
Russ544
[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 12-29-2007).]
So you still plan to run with the Holley ecm? I'll keep that in mind. Because of my "cooling issues" , I haven't had a chance to run the thing closed loop yet, but when I was using the holley on the IMSA with the stock intake, it never idled as good as it does now with the itb setup. I'm running with the same base map that I developed for it before (which wasn't perfect by any means), and I haven't even plugged in the laptop to it yet to see where it's at with the ITBs. I did pull a plug out of #7 to check for water (none), and noted that it was running a bit rich now. what do you need for Az emissions? just a sniff test? I don't see any problem running this on the street other than air filtration issues and the like. I plan to make an air box for mine, but that wouldn't be a part of the package that I would make for others. As I stated before, it's still a little premature to say if or when I'll make more of these. a lot depends on how my future testing goes, and how well it performs in actual street trim, but I'll be working on that very soon. save up $4,500.oo or so, but you may not need it all. I'll let you know more on that later.
edit: I haven't checked the idle rpm yet, but it sounds like 800 or so. One reason I let it idle a few second on the vid clip, between blips, was for the benifit of those here who have prior experience with the holley, and it's idle quirks
Russ544
Hi Russ,
If your setup is running good and is street drivable using A/C (don't see why not) with the Holley950 then yes I would keep the Holley. Your setup would allow me to run the Transmission shift cables in their stock position as I could just make a "Y" that went around them to two plenums. We need whatever emissions items that are on the stock 88 Fiero when it was produced. I would most likely have to "dummy" the egr but the rest should work. Then of course we get the sniff test.
I would make my decision based on your testing and recommendations but it does look promising.
you betcha. Alan is a nice guy and very knowledgable on N* goodies, although he seems to be branching out more in other dirrections these days. I sent him a link to this thread when it began, so I need to remind him to look again to see the "success video" .
Very nice Russ, and by the way are you running the exhaust with a pipe out of your garage ?
Boy now you can really use a set of equal length headers, but make no mistakes this intake is the way to go!
JG
wy wout i rout it 73t5ut otsid? fums never boterd me bafore. Ya... I have a pipe going out a hole in the shop wall. it's a finely tuned system . actually I just got a package from FedX that should be a cheepy muffler from Summit, so I can ease my guilt wile tuning at midnight (nearest neighbor is 100 yards away however). equal length header on a Northstar? in a Fiero? that might be a challenge even I wouldn't take ha ha.
Your setup would allow me to run the Transmission shift cables in their stock position as I could just make a "Y" that went around them to two plenums.
That's a nice side benifit for you and I, of using the ITB isn't it ? I thought of that as well. the Isuzu trans N* might become more common now
For those that may be wondering what the heck we're talking about. CptSnoopy is working on his N* installation, and plans to use an Isuzu trans with it. I used an Isuzu on my swap as well, but we may well be the only two that have them. everyone said it couldn't be done, due mostly to the way the shift cables exit this trans, and run right into the stock N* throttle body. I built bellcranks for mine (see "in progress" pic from my build, below), and I think the Cpt was planning a similar stratagy. with the ITB injection, however, this particular problem now becomes a non issue.
[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 12-30-2007).]
wy wout i rout it 73t5ut otsid? fums never boterd me bafore. Ya... I have a pipe going out a hole in the shop wall. it's a finely tuned system . actually I just got a package from FedX that should be a cheepy muffler from Summit, so I can ease my guilt wile tuning at midnight (nearest neighbor is 100 yards away however). equal length header on a Northstar? in a Fiero? that might be a challenge even I wouldn't take ha ha.
Russ544
I thought there were "just some" key notes missing in that clip...
You may have to send me a test subject so I can make sure it fits with the isuzu. I might just "have" to go the ITB route. DARN!
Like the sign in my business says: "INTEREST FREE CREDIT - 100% down - no payments". you are aware that some work is also required on the clutch throw out fork in order to use the Isuzu.... right? The ITB will help a bunch, but it's still not a bolt on and go proposition. If you're serious about the ITB, I'll put you on the list to keep updated.
Russ544
[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 12-30-2007).]
I've begun building more, and more precise, jigs in order to build a few more of the ITB setups. These are the major jigs (the new ones) used to build the manifold itself. The top left piece aligns the injector bungs wile being welded in place. the piece on the right holds the mandrel bends so the individual tubes can be cut. and the bottom piece helps hold the top of each manifold tube in alignment wile it's being welded into the flange (hardware not shown). several people have come forward and want me to build one of these for them. I'll only have time to build a few a year, but I'm working on ways to make them more affordable, more uniform, higher quality, and quicker to build. the jigs are one way to help that process along. I'm also working on ways to lessen the amount of machine work needed, and have made some progress on that front. a local guy is working on a bid for me to water jet cut the flanges, and I currently have enough parts ordered to build two more compleat setups + some. after I build one or two more I should have a pretty good idea what I'll have to charge for them. I'm not looking to get rich off this deal, but there IS a LOT of labor involved, so they won't be cheep either. As always, I'll keep you posted.
Russ544
------------------ It's just like building a canoe out of a log. first you cut down a tree........ then you cut off everything that doesn't look like a canoe.
[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 01-05-2008).]
I forgot, you probably just have the stock flexplate on there? I bet once you slap on a 20# flywheel (or torque converter as the case may be) it won't be nearly as rev happy.
I forgot, you probably just have the stock flexplate on there? I bet once you slap on a 20# flywheel (or torque converter as the case may be) it won't be nearly as rev happy.
True. however I've run my stock intake Northstar with only the flexplate also, and this setup does seem to have a snappier throttle response. but then again.... the ITB setup has a very different sound to it. especially at mid rpm - light loads. Each pair of intake valves closing, in their own runner, makes a very unusual pulsing... or kind of "buzzing" sound. kind of the sound a formula 1 car makes when it hits the rev limiter, except when when the Northstar makes that sound, at around 2,500 to 3,500 rpm, it can still rev higher.
[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 01-07-2008).]
That's awesome! I can't wait to see the completed car.
Thanks ! If you mean the 36' Ford, that project is on hold, now that my "spare" Northstar was found to have a cracked block. It will still get done, but it may be a wile. meanwile I plan to build a 2nd generation (very similar but nicer) intake manifold for this ITB and install it on the Northstar that's already in my IMSA. that way I can get some road time on it, as well as checking the compatability of the ITBs with the 7730 ECM (Ryans setup) that's currently in use in this car.
Russ544
[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 01-06-2008).]
[ouch... ouch... ouch... kicks self in butt]
