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Author
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Topic: New ECM option for Northstar swappers
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fieroparts.com
Member Posts: 3716
From: 41 Chestnut Street Old Orchard Beach Maine 04064 207-934-1969
Registered: Jun 2000
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bumpIP: Logged |
motoracer838
Member Posts: 2140
From: Edgewater Co. USofA
Registered: Jan 2006
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Got my package today, everything looks good. now I need to get started on my swap. Cheers Beers n Gearz. JoeIP: Logged |
ragerc92
Member Posts: 505
From: fowlerville MI
Registered: Sep 2002
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Ryan, if your still in need of some 2000 service manuals i can hook you up.IP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18660
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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Just scans of the page(s) with crank sensor information is really all I need...IP: Logged |
86GT3.4DOHC
Member Posts: 9012
From: Marion Ohio
Registered: Apr 2004
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So how much would you want for the chip?
If I go the route im planning, I will have a complete N* drop out drive train(I believe its from a 94), so I'll have the wiring and ECM and I have a couple of the 7730 ECMs laying around
Im planning on bolting it to a Getrag, but I think you already said above it was for a standard tranny right?
Other than ECM all I really need is the flywheel and a good bit of metal fab work right? Ive done 3.4DOHC turbo's and 3.8SC's as well as half a dozen 2.8's so the fab work is not a big deal.
Im not sure yet, as of right now Im trying to decide whether I should rebuild the turbo 3.4DOHC in it, or go N* or 3.8SC. I can get the dropout N* for $400 so thats a big selling point....
Hey, how compatable would your program be with a turbo? which year N*'s are MAF? All?IP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18660
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC:
So how much would you want for the chip?
If I go the route im planning, I will have a complete N* drop out drive train(I believe its from a 94), so I'll have the wiring and ECM and I have a couple of the 7730 ECMs laying around
Im planning on bolting it to a Getrag, but I think you already said above it was for a standard tranny right?
Other than ECM all I really need is the flywheel and a good bit of metal fab work right? Ive done 3.4DOHC turbo's and 3.8SC's as well as half a dozen 2.8's so the fab work is not a big deal.
Im not sure yet, as of right now Im trying to decide whether I should rebuild the turbo 3.4DOHC in it, or go N* or 3.8SC. I can get the dropout N* for $400 so thats a big selling point....
Hey, how compatable would your program be with a turbo? which year N*'s are MAF? All? |
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The chip is $50. It will work with a getrag. The computer will not work with a 94 northstar. You need the 96+ intake(or TB) for it to work, which is a PITA to install on a 94. I went through the steps in another northstar thread. Basically it involves drilling and tapping the heads. Not for the faint of heart.
Turbo is not a problem, but it hasn't been done before, so expect speed bumps. 
96-99 are MAF and are plug and play with this computer and harness.
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Reise
Member Posts: 69
From: Berrien Springs, MI, USA
Registered: Aug 2006
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still nothing for auto swappers?IP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18660
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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Auto swappers still have the hacked northstar computer they can use, but it means it's untunable...
Or you can buy a transmission controller from PCS, or this other company that makes them for about $600...IP: Logged |
Reise
Member Posts: 69
From: Berrien Springs, MI, USA
Registered: Aug 2006
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what ever happened to the paddle shifting for the northstar 4t80E who would I look into gettting that thing from? I will probably use the comp to deal with the shifting till I can get the paddle shifter. any info on that?
BrianIP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18660
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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The computer can't control an electronic transmission at the moment.
I don't build the paddle shifter's anymore, I ran out of parts... I might have something similar to the PCS system coming out soon though... IP: Logged |
Reise
Member Posts: 69
From: Berrien Springs, MI, USA
Registered: Aug 2006
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well what are you doing messing around on here?? j/k Git R Dunn man... I was talking about the company that made them... I saw a post that had them on it and was kinda intrigued on how it all went together. do you know the post I am talking about... if you could make up something for the 4T80E then I would GLADLY give you the business...
BrianIP: Logged |
RCR
Member Posts: 2498
From: Shelby Twp Mi
Registered: Sep 2002
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Hey Ryan, love your projects...
It looks like it's almost a done deal in that I will be swapping my 3800SC for a 97 Aurora 4.0. In the distant future, it will get a small turbo. My biggest question is what option do I have for the trans control? For the time being, I'll be using the 4T80. Will this ECM control the trans? You were working on a trans controller. Did you finish it? Will it work on the 4T80? Or am I going to have to use the stock ECM?
Bob[This message has been edited by RCR (edited 10-29-2006).] IP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18660
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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| | | quote | Originally posted by RCR:
Hey Ryan, love your projects...
It looks like it's almost a done deal in that I will be swapping my 3800SC for a 97 Aurora 4.0. In the distant future, it will get a small turbo. My biggest question is what option do I have for the trans control? For the time being, I'll be using the 4T80. Will this ECM control the trans? You were working on a trans controller. Did you finish it? Will it work on the 4T80? Or am I going to have to use the stock ECM?
Bob
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http://www.globalintersection.com/auto-parts/store/ShowProd.asp?idProduct=128712&idRef=Froogle
$658
The ECM won't control a transmission. The transmission controller I built is finished, but I sold all the ones I had.... don't have parts to build any more, it would cost too much to have more boards made. If you were really interested... and willing to pay a premium to help offset the board costs, I could probably be convinced to put together another small run....
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ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18660
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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Harness with new wiring with new delphi connectors (no old stuff spliced together), ready to be combined with a fiero electrical system:
Set up for 2 heated o2 sensors (only one active at a time though). 98% plug and play... just wire power, ground, fan, tach, speedo, etc...
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HitesFiero
Member Posts: 369
From: St. Charles, MO, USA
Registered: Sep 2003
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$$$ ???IP: Logged |
Russ544
Member Posts: 2088
From: S.W. Oregon
Registered: Jun 2003
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Wow. that looks great Ryan. can I have it?
I noticed you have an ALDL plug wired in there also, but what codes would be left to check for, once the egr and all that "extra" stuf has hit the dumpster? Also, if I hooked up my Auto-X-Ray to it, what car would I tell it that it was looking at? 
RussIP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18660
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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| | | quote | Originally posted by Russ544:
Wow. that looks great Ryan. can I have it?
I noticed you have an ALDL plug wired in there also, but what codes would be left to check for, once the egr and all that "extra" stuf has hit the dumpster? Also, if I hooked up my Auto-X-Ray to it, what car would I tell it that it was looking at?
Russ |
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Why yes, yes you may. (Actually I'm surprised you don't have it already! Maybe tomorrow...)
Correct on the ALDL plug... It works like any other GM computer, it'll let you know if your MAP or TPS readings are off the charts... Coolant temp... etc. You can use the ol' paperclip trick to pull codes.
| | | quote | Originally posted by HitesFiero:
$$$ ??? |
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$500 for all of it... computer, harness, tuning files on CD, wiring diagrams...IP: Logged |
OH10fiero
Member Posts: 1360
From: struther OH
Registered: Jun 2002
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PM sentIP: Logged |
HitesFiero
Member Posts: 369
From: St. Charles, MO, USA
Registered: Sep 2003
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WOW! $500 for a system using factory components that is 98% plug and play! That is truly a steal! Kudos to you Ryan, we may have to talk in the near future.IP: Logged |
wpg-topsecret
Member Posts: 13
From: WPG, MB, Canada
Registered: Oct 2006
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Ryan, how does your ECM setup take to aftermarket cams and/or ported/polished heads and valve jobs? Would it need to be re-tuned, or would it figgure itself out?
If it would need to be re-tuned, what software/tools would I need to do it myself?
Also, I've got the N* harness. Would you supply whatever other connectors I need, the programmed ECM and schematics and basic instructions so I could do the wiring myself? (I'm rather wiring savy, but just lazy  )[This message has been edited by wpg-topsecret (edited 11-03-2006).] IP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18660
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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It would need to be retuned.
It can adjust for minor differences between engines, but not cam swaps or anything major like that.
I include a freeware copy of tunerpro with the definition file. To tune the computer, you will need an ALDL interface, and an EPROM burner. The burner is about $30 on ebay, the interface is about $40 ready-made... you can also build one yourself for about $20 if you're savy.
I can supply whatever parts you need.[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 11-03-2006).] IP: Logged |
carolinajoe
Member Posts: 822
From: Spring Hill,Fl.
Registered: Feb 2005
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| | | quote | Originally posted by Reise:
what ever happened to the paddle shifting for the northstar 4t80E who would I look into gettting that thing from? I will probably use the comp to deal with the shifting till I can get the paddle shifter. any info on that?
Brian |
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Brian,
Here is a link to paddle shifters
http://www.twistmachine.com/
And one to the Trans controller
http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com/
Ryan
I am just waiting to get my Holley back and then it will go up on
Ebay and will send you the money for your setup.
How much would it cost to get some boards made up and how many do you have
to get made at a time??
I mean crap TCI wants $658 and PCS wants $700 then $150 for the harness.
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"If you want your car to be cheap and fast it won't be reliable...
If you want your car to be reliable and cheap it won't be fast...
If you want your car to be fast and reliable it won't be cheap... IP: Logged |
fiero_silva
Member Posts: 1492
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Jun 2003
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Cool... I should get a N*  [This message has been edited by fiero_silva (edited 11-03-2006).] IP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18660
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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| | | quote | Originally posted by carolinajoe:
How much would it cost to get some boards made up and how many do you have
to get made at a time??
I mean crap TCI wants $658 and PCS wants $700 then $150 for the harness.
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I don't know..... I have 2 prototype boards for my "next generation" TCM that could be reprogrammed with the old code... I could assemble and sell you one, I'd have to get back to you on a cost. Unfortunately it means the old install instructions won't match, so I'd have to redo those as well...
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XzotikGT
Member Posts: 871
From: Spanaway, WA, USA
Registered: Mar 2004
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any news on the 2000 setup?------------------
1987 GT 3.4 DOHC turboed
Updated page 11/3/06
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/167457/1 IP: Logged |
Raydar
Member Posts: 24111
From: West ATL GA 'burbs Douglasville
Registered: Oct 1999
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Another question...
Will the 7730 run enough of the emissions equipment to allow it to pass a sniffer test?
Although Georgia doesn't do a visual inspection, other than looking for a cat, it does test for NOx. Without a working EGR system of some sort, it's not likely it will pass. I'm pretty sure the same situation will hold true in other places.
I'm not planning on doing another swap anytime soon, but this will no doubt add another option.IP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18660
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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No news on the 2000 setup. Nobody has given me the info I need from a service manual.
Emissions are "disabled". However, if one were inclined, you could install an EGR from an early 90's w-body (which may or may not need an adapter plate). However, I have not tuned any engines with an EGR before, so I'm not sure how difficult a task it would be once you installed one. In short - you can do it, but it might take a while to "get right". IP: Logged |
XzotikGT
Member Posts: 871
From: Spanaway, WA, USA
Registered: Mar 2004
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what info do you need?IP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18660
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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crank sensor signal informationIP: Logged |
XzotikGT
Member Posts: 871
From: Spanaway, WA, USA
Registered: Mar 2004
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is that the only hold up?IP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18660
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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I guess?
Won't know if it will work or not without that information..IP: Logged |
XzotikGT
Member Posts: 871
From: Spanaway, WA, USA
Registered: Mar 2004
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no problem with the coil on plug setup?------------------
1987 GT 3.4 DOHC turboed
Updated page 11/3/06
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/167457/1 IP: Logged |
jstricker
Member Posts: 12114
From: Russell, KS USA
Registered: Apr 2002
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Ryan,
I have a stand alone GM Transmission controller out of a diesel pickup for the 4L80E. I don't know if you know anything about them but seeing as how you did the work on the GM Computer to make it work on the Northstar, maybe this would be an option for you to use instead of starting from scratch with a whole new TCM everytime?
John Stricker
| | | quote | Originally posted by ryan.hess:
I don't know..... I have 2 prototype boards for my "next generation" TCM that could be reprogrammed with the old code... I could assemble and sell you one, I'd have to get back to you on a cost. Unfortunately it means the old install instructions won't match, so I'd have to redo those as well...
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ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18660
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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| | | quote | Originally posted by XzotikGT:
no problem with the coil on plug setup?
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The coil on plug setup IS the problem. The 2000 ECM controls the ignition directly - there is no ignition module to interpret the crank sensors, and fire the coils.
Or are you asking if those engines were COP? If so- yes.
| | | quote | Originally posted by jstricker:
Ryan,
I have a stand alone GM Transmission controller out of a diesel pickup for the 4L80E. I don't know if you know anything about them but seeing as how you did the work on the GM Computer to make it work on the Northstar, maybe this would be an option for you to use instead of starting from scratch with a whole new TCM everytime?
John Stricker
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Interesting thought, but it's a PITA to reverse engineer something. The next gen TCM will be the "end all" of TCM's. It will be programmable, and offer automatic shifting. So in that respect, it will be the "last".IP: Logged |
XzotikGT
Member Posts: 871
From: Spanaway, WA, USA
Registered: Mar 2004
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what if you added a wheel to the end of the crank, and a trigger. Could you then use one pf the ecm setups if I were to ditch the coil on plug setup, and use the reguar DIS on the older motor?------------------
1987 GT 3.4 DOHC turboed
Updated page 11/3/06
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/167457/1 IP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18660
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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Sure, you could do that today. What I'd like to research is whether you can use the stock trigger system. External crank triggers aren't all that elegant of a solution. Plus you have the problem of them getting damaged or muddy or whatever...[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 11-27-2006).] IP: Logged |
XzotikGT
Member Posts: 871
From: Spanaway, WA, USA
Registered: Mar 2004
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The guy i am working with already has a wheel. If you had the specs on it, would you be able to program to match?
He also said that he thinks there are 2 control modules. One for each bank.
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1987 GT 3.4 DOHC turboed
Updated page 11/3/06
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/167457/1[This message has been edited by XzotikGT (edited 11-27-2006).] IP: Logged |
Will
Member Posts: 9022
From: Where you least expect me
Registered: Jun 2000
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The immediate way to work a Y2K engine is with an external crank trigger, FAST eDist and 7730.
Will shortly send PM on RFT.IP: Logged |
XzotikGT
Member Posts: 871
From: Spanaway, WA, USA
Registered: Mar 2004
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to me?------------------
1987 GT 3.4 DOHC turboed
Updated page 11/3/06
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/167457/1 IP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18660
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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| | | quote | Originally posted by XzotikGT:
The guy i am working with already has a wheel. If you had the specs on it, would you be able to program to match?
He also said that he thinks there are 2 control modules. One for each bank.
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A wheel, or a northstar wheel? You need a northstar wheel. Anything else won't work.
I don't know what we're talking about anymore, but no northstar has 2 control modules. The <99 uses one ignition module that interprets the crank signals and fires the 4 coil packs. The 2000+ has NO ignition module. It has 4 coils on each bank. They are directly controlled by the ECM like an LS1. IP: Logged |
