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Author
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Topic: New ECM option for Northstar swappers
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mrfiero
Member Posts: 6366
From: Jackson Hole
Registered: Mar 99
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| | | quote | | Originally posted by ryan.hess:
Computer's ready any time you are, the wiring harness is going to take some time. What kind of starting problems are you having? Email or PM me...
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PM sent....thanks for the help! IP: Logged |
Hybrid Junkie
Member Posts: 42
From: Taylors, S.C. U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2006
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Ryan, I have been following your progress so far and just like everyone else "Congrats" on your sucess! Now to the point, Have you been able to tweak any more H.P. out of the Northstar in stock form like I have seen done to some LS1 engines? I could not read your Dyno sheet..... could you let me know your specs? Also I just bought a ' 88 4cyl. 5speed SE and was going to build as a daily driver with a stock 275hp ' 97 Northstar and I am working on the suspension with help from everyone here.(posts and other suggestions)and I just got back from the East Coast Timing association meet at Maxton, N.C. and now I have the fever to build a high speed runner (standing start 1 mile run ) and was wondering if you could tell me how my northstar fiero would run due to the fact you have one or should I plan on "Building" a new motor and can you tune it for the cam and "stuff"? This will probably be the last car I build (Wife, Kids, College Etc.)and I would like for it to be "All It Can Be" and still drive it daily. Thanks, T.J.
Also can you "E" mail me a price on a harness and computer for my ' 97? all I have is the motor. ------------------
rolo_001 @charter.net
91 Miata, Tube chassis w / old school LT1
85 volvo turbo wagon,Full ipd suspension,SBC LT1
88 Fiero SE Soon to be NORTHSTAR !
Think outside the box and work smart not hard ! IP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18664
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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Using an "estimated" 21% loss through the auto tranny, the stock 300 hp engine I have is producing 330hp. High speed and high power go hand in hand, so I would recommend cams and springs from http://www.chrfab.com . The longer you can stay in your powerband, the faster you'll be going. A 1 mile run is going to put you far into triple digit speeds. Consider a stock northstar fiero is going 106 or so after just 1/4 mile. Since you have a family (  ) I'd highly recommend a roll cage and investigating aerodynamic considerations. I can send you a link with the email I'm sending you... IP: Logged |
motoracer838
Member Posts: 2140
From: Edgewater Co. USofA
Registered: Jan 2006
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This needs a bump.IP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18664
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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Just an update... I discovered the ALDL stops reporting values after 6375 rpm. This becomes a problem for tuning high rpm engines. So... I am going to create an extended VE and PE table, and a new RPM variable to report via the ALDL... I won't get into the uber technical details. But know that after it's done, 8500rpm will not be a problem, and you will be able to tune these high-rpm values as well. I chose not to rework the spark table, because spark should be all-in by those rpm's anyways. If not, there's an adder that adds spark after the table max's out. IP: Logged |
Fierobsessed
Member Posts: 3928
From: Las Vegas, NV
Registered: Dec 2001
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FF = 255 factor of 25 = 6375 RPM
If you don't mind using two ALDL slots, there is a variable in the L40?? range that is what the computer uses to calculate all the different RPM Variables, including the one that reports to the ALDL. This variable since it's a full word is limited to... 65535 RPM. And it's a factor of one.IP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18664
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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Yep, that's what I'll end up doing, probably creating an offset RPM/25 variable that starts at 6400.IP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18664
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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Success! The new VE and PE tables work. I just tested it to 9400 rpm, which hopefully will be less than any modified northstar can take IP: Logged |
John Boelte
Member Posts: 1011
From: Indianapolis, IN, USA
Registered: Jun 2002
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What are you offering at this point? The reprogrammed chip? Wiring instructions (schematic)? Only the whole enchilada (computer, wire harness, etc.)?
I just got my '84 on the road. Now it needs MORE power!! The N* is looking attractive. IP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18664
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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Whatever you need. I need to do some more work and testing on the "extended" rpm chip, but the one I'm currently running now is for sale. The chip would be the bare minimum of what you need to get a running system together... (Assuming you can do the wiring yourself)IP: Logged |
John Boelte
Member Posts: 1011
From: Indianapolis, IN, USA
Registered: Jun 2002
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What engine model years work? '93 to present?[This message has been edited by John Boelte (edited 05-12-2006).] IP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18664
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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96-99 will be plug and play with the harness. 93-95 will take some work to make it all work. 2000+ will not work at the moment.[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 05-12-2006).] IP: Logged |
John Boelte
Member Posts: 1011
From: Indianapolis, IN, USA
Registered: Jun 2002
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Thanks Ryan, I won't be moving on this right away, but I think I've decided the direction I want to go. I'll be tracking down an engine and collecting the necessary parts to do the swap. IP: Logged |
OH10fiero
Member Posts: 1360
From: struther OH
Registered: Jun 2002
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So there is no way to get a 2000+ year to work with this? Could you not just make a homemade wire harness that will adapt the ECM you are suggesting to the engine? Just curious since I got a free 02 N* that I have no way of useing at this time unless something like this can work for me.IP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18664
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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I'm looking into the 2000 northstar to see how much work would be necessary to make it work.IP: Logged |
OH10fiero
Member Posts: 1360
From: struther OH
Registered: Jun 2002
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So any new updates? still would like to know if this would work for a 02 N*.IP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18664
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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The problem is, I'd need to pick up a 2000 factory service manual, and I'm not thrilled to spend $100 on something I'd use once.IP: Logged |
dratts
Member Posts: 615
From: Novato,Ca. USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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Ryan, The Cadillac mechanic in NC who I bought my N* Fiero from offered to fax me copies of anything I need from the factory manual. If you can find out what pages or what subject you want, I'll ask him for them. Let me know when you get my check for the tcm. Can I use one of the aftermarket paddle shifters with it? I believe that they send a wireless signal to the stock system.IP: Logged |
Steven Snyder
Member Posts: 2893
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Mar 2004
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| | | quote | Originally posted by dratts:
I believe that they send a wireless signal to the stock system. |
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No, you need a standalone transmission controller like the one from PCS. (http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com/) The paddle shifters just send a wireless signal to a box that will apply 12v+ to one or the other output depending on whether you indicated an upshift or a downshift. The stock computer can't do anything with that..
IP: Logged |
layncopcar
Junior Member Posts: 1
From: phoenix, az usa
Registered: Jun 2006
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you got mail!IP: Logged |
motoracer838
Member Posts: 2140
From: Edgewater Co. USofA
Registered: Jan 2006
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bumpIP: Logged |
el_roy1985
Member Posts: 236
From: Bismarck, ND, USA
Registered: Jun 2004
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This makes me wonder if I should go N* instead of L67. It's definately more tempting now.IP: Logged |
Russ544
Member Posts: 2088
From: S.W. Oregon
Registered: Jun 2003
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Ryan,
Will this setup be dialed in for std trans use as well? (stock 98' VIN 9)
Great work,
RussIP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18664
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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It's made for a manual. IP: Logged |
Russ544
Member Posts: 2088
From: S.W. Oregon
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by ryan.hess:
It's made for a manual. |
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Cool  . so what's the current status of a P&P system? pricing etc.
IP: Logged |
OH10fiero
Member Posts: 1360
From: struther OH
Registered: Jun 2002
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Like I asked before, anyway to make this work on the later N*'s? I have a 02' and I am highly interested in knowing if there is anyway to use this with that engine.IP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18664
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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PM sent. IP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18664
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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| | | quote | Originally posted by OH10fiero:
Like I asked before, anyway to make this work on the later N*'s? I have a 02' and I am highly interested in knowing if there is anyway to use this with that engine. |
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Yes - but - you would need to install a trigger wheel to use the DIS brick from the early northstar. That's the worst case. Best case you can translate the crank signal to something the brick can understand.IP: Logged |
AP2k
Member Posts: 2408
From:
Registered: May 2006
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I'll be bookmarking this thread.
What chips are you using, anyway?IP: Logged |
Formula88
Member Posts: 31760
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered: Jan 2001
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This definitely makes a Northstar much more tempting. All aluminum, DOHC, Fiero bolt pattern.... oh yeah. IP: Logged |
OH10fiero
Member Posts: 1360
From: struther OH
Registered: Jun 2002
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| | | quote | Originally posted by ryan.hess:
Yes - but - you would need to install a trigger wheel to use the DIS brick from the early northstar. That's the worst case. Best case you can translate the crank signal to something the brick can understand. |
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Would I be able to use a after market trigger wheel set set up say from Summit to get that to work? or would I have to do some creative swaping from engine(mine) to engine(proper year for your set up) to do this?IP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18664
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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Got a link?IP: Logged |
OH10fiero
Member Posts: 1360
From: struther OH
Registered: Jun 2002
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I knew you were going to ask that, don't know why I didn't put this in my last post.
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MSD%2D8655&N=700+4294925143+400122+4294839065+4294847598+4294891681+115&autoview=sku
Not sure if this would work, or how you would be able to get the computer to read the info without knowing the exact programming. My guess would to do it seperatly from the computer but then that just opens a whole new can-o-worms there.
Take a look, thought, suggestion, and opinions are welcome.IP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18664
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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Interesting setup, but it won't work.
This will need a custom setup. It might be possible to modify one of the generic ones. I would suggest contacting TCE, the guys that made the v6 external crank trigger, to see if they'd be willing to create a northstar crank trigger wheel. There are diagrams of it in a few places.
Keep in mind the northstar uses 2 crank triggers. However, the kit above is $140.IP: Logged |
OH10fiero
Member Posts: 1360
From: struther OH
Registered: Jun 2002
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| | | quote | Originally posted by ryan.hess:
Interesting setup, but it won't work.
This will need a custom setup. It might be possible to modify one of the generic ones. I would suggest contacting TCE, the guys that made the v6 external crank trigger, to see if they'd be willing to create a northstar crank trigger wheel. There are diagrams of it in a few places.
Keep in mind the northstar uses 2 crank triggers. However, the kit above is $140. |
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$140.00 is not that bad, but I think that I will try and score a set up from earlier N* before I dish out any cash. A lot of times I am able to get stuff like that for free or really cheap around here.IP: Logged |
MclarenF1
Member Posts: 639
From: Kingston, WA
Registered: May 2006
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YAY! RYAN YOUR MY HERO! I was talkin' to Alan Johnson the other day and he said that the cam grind will put out max power at about 7800RPM! Can you PM me with price details for the ECM and harnesses? I hope nobody tries to copy this stuff, you should get a patent or something.IP: Logged |
AP2k
Member Posts: 2408
From:
Registered: May 2006
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Ryan, do you have any ambition to control the VVT modes on some later model Northstars? I would be extremely interested in an ECU that can do that.IP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18664
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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If I were installing one, I would have PLENTY of ambition... but I'm not, so I need to find other sources of motivation ($$$)
And as of yet, I don't think anybody has even posted how they work yet. I know there are 4 cam phasers each with a PWM solenoid, but that's all I know. Can't build a controller with that, so somebody would have to step up and buy a service manual.IP: Logged |
AP2k
Member Posts: 2408
From:
Registered: May 2006
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I'm a bit of a programmer myself (although I am still playing around with PICs). Would you consider sharing any information you have that you used to make the computer? You probably didnt see my last post, but now that I have your attention, might I ask what chips and language do you use to program the controller?
I know I am probably getting close to sensative nerves making the request, but I would be much interested in learning more about programming powerful computing chips like you are using. I would like to program for GM, so I suppose it best to start learning early. 
PS: I didnt see a thread about your paddle shift transmission swap. IIRC, the other paddleshift transmission (for a 3.4 swap) was just an automatic transmission. I am assuming that is what yours is as well? I had a thought about doing something like that with my Reatta before I got my Fiero. Any info on how you pulled off paddle shifting?IP: Logged |
ryan.hess
Member Posts: 18664
From: Central FL
Registered: Dec 2002
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I'm not sure what you're talking about here... I think you mixed up about 3 different things into one post - the TCM, the ECM and that VVT controller.... send me a PM, but rephrase what you want to know.
If you're talking about the ECM, the chips are 27SF512's, and it is programmed in assembly.IP: Logged |
