The noise is not rotational with the engine. It is sporadic and definitely coming from the bellhousing area. The clutch pedal vibrates when pressed and is low and mushy. Using a stethoscope, I could listen to the noise and it can be heard after the engine is shut off for about 1 second. Rich authorized me to pull the transmission and inspect. I assume that I will find springs from the clutch disc blown out....but I cannot be 100% until I take it apart next week. Dave
[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 06-12-2009).]
Yes i've heard that exact noise. it's a bad supercharger coupler. it's located in the snout.
edit: my opinion, but check anything else possible. better safe then sorry :-)
quote
Originally posted by sabooo:
The great red money pit lives on. Started it up to head to the MAFOA event at Lititz this morning (about 1.5 hours drive) and I got this little treat. Thankfully it started in the driveway while the car was warming up.
Anyone recognize this noise? No there is no popcorn on the headers.
------------------ 1987 Fiero 3800 Series 2 swap project (coming soon) 1988 FIERO Coupe "IRON DUKE" 5-Speed (the show car ;-) 1992 Firebird T-Tops V-8 24k original Florida miles(collectors car)
[This message has been edited by gtxbullet (edited 06-13-2009).]
Not the coupler. Was hoping you were right, but it's definitely coming from the bellhousing. Ran it with the SC belt off and verified. BMWGuru is in the process of extricating the engine and cradle from the wiring. Once free, he will drop it in order to open it up and see just what's up.
Thursday morning update. In attempting to drop the cradle, quite a bit of the wiring was found to be unsatisfactorily done (my opinion). Everything was intact, but routed in strange and mysterious ways. It was also hard wired to the computer instead of having a connector. The computer was not mounted, just loose in the compartment, and some of the relays were also just dangling. So it took almost a day to get the cradle down, which included the need to cut wires. Going to have the harness sorted out, a disconnect added, and everything tidied up and mounted fast.
Car was lifted off the cradle late last night, so the innards have not been opened up yet, but that should happen soon.
Unless something untoward happens sourcing components, I've settled (finally) on an F40 6-speed swap. This is based in part on the fact that I am fairly convinced that a clutch is needed, and that everything is out of the car already. The Getrag in the car at present has a bad synch for 3rd gear, which drives me bonkers. If I hate the ratios, I can always change it later. If I manage to break it, then we'll have something to talk about on PFF. Trust me - I'll try. I'll probably pick up an extra one for just such a situation while they are still available.
And as usual, the list is growing while it's in the bay. Car has a new style AC compressor, so I'm having a custom hose created to reactivate the AC. Have also asked for a full steering and suspension inspection to try to sort out a bit of play at speed.
I have a few pictures I'll post later, once I'm back in the hotel.
Glad it's not a huge issue. Hadn't heard from you in a while, and pulling away to drive a rolling garage 4-5hrs wasn't gonna be easy to coordinate.
The harness wasn't optimal, but as you could see from before/after pics I took, it basically was a swap of pcms from what was there with the 95, to the 98+ style. We discussed cleaning the car up more, making it more show-winning & such, and that would've been a big part of the work. Time being a factor, it would've definitely been more than that month, if I would've had to drop the engine for additional work, re-wire the harness fully, and make the packaging more friendly. We had enough additional work to get done on it, that I didn't want to hold you back from enjoying the car all summer (which I hope you can get back to doing now).
- Dave
------------------ '98 Daytona GTP - MP112 & ZZP I/C (warming up before a RWD 3800SC build) back in '06 - 333.5whpSAE - 12.73 @ 111mph (street tires) GenV, XP, 9.4:1, stock heads, non-I/C Admin of CNY3800 http://geocities.com/dezldave961/
No worries Dave - you gave me exactly what I asked for. Without dropping the cradle I dont think you could've done things much differently than you did. But since it was coming down anyway, I wanted to take advantage and tidy it up, and make it easier for next time it had to happen.
Ok, saw the carnage first hand today. Flywheel suffered some damage from the loose hardware and will need to be replaced. Abandoned the F40 idea in favor of a Getrag -> Getrag swap. F40 is for sale. Spec clutch survived, will be FS. I'll birth a mall thread for these at an appropriate time.
Other added tasks that have magically added themselves to the "list:"
Suspension replacement - lots of original bits under there. Time to get that right. Add an alignment for good measure. Upgrades to Poly
Replace the wiring harness, courtesy of Joey's incredible patience. Should have a way to disconnect the harness at the firewall to facilitate dropping the cradle much easier than this time.
Make the AC functional again. Need a custom hose fab'd and intstalled, charge it and hope for the best.
Horn - Has apparently been married to long. (use your imagination.)
Replace the wiring harness, courtesy of Joey's incredible patience.
Horn - Has apparently been married to long. (use your imagination.)
Fabricating a new wiring harness does require a lot of patience.... but I find sorting through a tangled mess to be relaxing... I'm very much looking forward to being an active participant in this and any other swap we do.
Maybe a girl, but not JUST a girl. I'm thrilled to have your work in this car, as will anyone who values having something done "better than factory". Sorry to not have crossed paths with you at the shop. Dave tells me he's buying a second alignment rack so you can have a spot for your incoming puzzle...
Dave I really enjoyed the tech day and BBQ at your place. For anyone who doesn't know Dave his shop is FIRST CLASS, TOP NOTCH, clean, organized with the BEST equipment money can buy. If you don't have the right tools you can't do the job right (he's got'em all) Sorry that Joey's burnout video's didn't come out. Maybe we can get some more when the VR6 comes back from paint. Looking forward to getting together again you should have my E-mail addy please keep me posted
Anthony
------------------ Keep the greasy side down and the shiny side up
We upgraded the timing chain to the double roller this week. Decided that it was better to start fresh with the wiring rather than try to patch up what was in the car. It is just easier to do it this way and less labor hours billed.
Had a broken bolt in the crankshaft.
Left hand drill bits made the job easier and took the bolt out in one piece.
Suspension parts were dropped off by the little brown truck today and the car will have a whole new feel to it when it is back together.
Brief update - progress is being made. Waiting on a reman trans to arrive, along with a few other bits and bobs. Flywheel is at the machine shop getting balanced. Suspension should be finished this week.
Yes - I'm stoked. Car was downright spooky at speed, and it has lots of that. Looking forward to driving it.
cheers, Rich
Edit: Forgot to mention that Dave replaced the SC Coupler while it was apart, just to avoid the Murphy's laws of Karma thing where it would've failed within 10 miles of me getting the car back.
[This message has been edited by sabooo (edited 06-30-2009).]
Progress continues. Rebuilt trans, new flywheel installed, cradle back in the car. Shift cables replaced. Suspension components replaced, bushings replaced. ECM has been reprogrammed to elminate the stall when clutching coming to a stop and to accept a lower temp thermostat. 42.5# injectors installed. Car in still in the care of Haus of Guru, where the next steps are for Joey to work her magic on the wiring harness, an alignment, fabricate an AC hose and charge that system, install a new head unit (Clarion FZ409), dyno the car (finally), a few other odd tasks, and then shake it down to see if anything rattles.
Thanks Dave and Joey for the frequent updates. Much appreciated!
I've also added the installation of a set of low profile headlamp buckets to the project. Once the car is home I plan on detailing the bejeepers out of it and doing a full photo shoot to update this thread.
here is a quick pic of the a/c hose I made for Sabooo's car. Now he can keep cool while his clutch goes flying out the front of his car. lol Dave
Nice job. Here is one that I made up for the later 3800SC series III engines.
I notice that you also do the 3800SC as I do by hooking the control function into the GTP PCM. IMO this is the only correct way to do it with the 7CVC GM Compressor that doesn't have the safety switches. ------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 07-18-2009).]
OUCH! Going to try a freshly rebuilt Getrag and try to behave myself. If I grenade this one for lack of trying then it's an auto swap.
Edit - that car was sick for a dodge colt... and THAT my friends is one of the reasons I don't street race - My ego couldn't take getting my headlamps sucked out by a 16 year old in a Colt. LOL.
[This message has been edited by sabooo (edited 07-18-2009).]
update - added some PRJ fuel rails from 3800performance.com for good measure. mmmm...pretty bits.
Hate to say this, but I am very disappointed in the fuel rails. It took some serious modifications to make them functional. The fuel pressure regulator was mising all the hardware. I had to purchase a bunch of -AN fittings and couplers to make the system connect. The hose they included in the kit was nothing more than cloth wrapped plastic hose. I upgraded to braided hose with -AN fittings all the way to the fuel filter. I figured with the Warlbro fuel pump, I'd like to safe and not sorry. The good side is that the rails do look amazing. I added a fuel pressure gauge to top off the look and to ensure proper regulated pressure.
BEFORE:
AFTER: (keep in mind the wiring is not completed yet)
We also relocated the intercooler pump. It was a little too low and I was worried about ground clearance....especially if the car gets driven in Jersey.
The wiring part of the job will be updated in my Haus of Guru thread.
Intercooler pump needs to be the lowest part of the system... As long as it is not physically the lowest part of the car, it is fine.
The intercooler pump is still lower than the intercooler.
quote
Originally posted by FastFieros:
If you have one of these, then it just needs to be a nice location below it. Not the lowest part of the "system" ...
There is a fill in the engine compartment to bleed the air out when we fill it. Loyde, I have been a fan of your swaps and that is what got me interested in doing the swaps up here in the Northeast. I believe the swaps should be functional, reliable and show quality. My VR6 swap has proven to be just that. I hope to exceed Sabooo's expectations when he gets his car back. Dave
------------------ 1987 GT (my toy-see above), 1987 GT 3800s/c, 1986 SE with a VW VR6, certified master technician/shop owner www.njautobahn.com www.hausofguru.com
I prefer the pump mounted as low as possible in the system. When Golden86 put this swap together, he mounted the FloJet in the trunk, behind the carpet, at the highest point in the loop. Provided the system is filled and bled properly, this doesn't create a giant issue, but with it at the very top like that, you can guess where the air liked to collect. Having the pump run sans fluid spelled a quick doom for it.
Preferring not to repeat that with the Ford pump, I had it mounted low - too low. It actually extended about an inch below the intercooler radiator mounts up in the nose, which had previously been my low spot.
As Dave pointed out, the roads in the NE coupled with a lowered car, would eventually spell doom for it.
I appreciate that there are multiple solutions to this, though. That's what makes swap cars so much fun to me - variety.
The bleeding headaches are not worth mounting the pump higher than it needs to be...
We have the filler at the highest point that can bleed the air out. I'm going to try and "vacuum fill" the intercooler system as well as the cooling system. It shouldn't be an issue. I've never run into a car that was airbound after we worked on it with the proper equipment. Our goal here is a complete transformation. Dave
If you have one of these, then it just needs to be a nice location below it. Not the lowest part of the "system" ...
I run this same fill type setup and let me tell you that it makes bleeding the system 100% easier. I used to hate having to fill the system and try to get all the air out before adding the filler. I am swapping over to a Cobra reservoir soon to get a little more coolant added to the system.
our portion of this adventure at the "Haus of Guru" is coming to a close. Maybe another few days of work and then some testing (maybe even some dyno action ) The wiring harness came out beautiful. I should have completed pics up tomorrow. The engine runs, but I believe there is a vacuum leak or an issue with the tuning...I'll check that out tomorrow to be 100% certain. The fuel log manufacturer should have his balls removed for the issues and poor quality that we upgraded...they do look sweet, though. Here are a few pics from today.... Looking down on at the spark plug wires at the trunk side of the engine.
closer look.....
even closer look....
Here we are at the ignition coils....
I used almost $100.00 of heat tubing on this car. The heater hoses, intercooler hoses, throttle cable, a/c hoses, some wiring....basically anything within five inches of the headers got sleeved. I used the same basic stuff that Rodney puts on his shifter cables. The ignition wires should have no issues with snow, rain, sleet, arching or anything. As long as the wires are in good shape, they will be fine.
The cloth covered push-lok hose is safe for fuel. The braided stuff is just shinier and abrasive. You should slip some clear tubing over the braided line where it goes under the snout to prevent wear.
Started it up to head to the MAFOA event at Lititz this morning (about 1.5 hours drive) and I got this little treat. Thankfully it started in the driveway while the car was warming up.
