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wheels by 4thfiero
Started on: 07-21-2014 07:56 PM
Replies: 21 (626 views)
Last post by: Csjag on 07-23-2014 08:22 AM
4thfiero
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Report this Post07-21-2014 07:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
will 15x8 wheels fit the 88 fiero gt? both front and rear?
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Raydar
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Report this Post07-21-2014 08:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Depends on the offset and bolt pattern.
They've got to be 5x100 to fit the Fiero. Probably a 35mm offset to fit under the fenders correctly.
Check the clearance on the back side. Make sure the wheel rim (or the tire sidewall) isn't going to hit the struts or spring perch.

Edit... The 15x8s might be a bad idea on the front of the 88. They'll either stick out too far, or the back side will hit the lower control arms when you're turning.

I might be wrong, but wait for others to chime in. I haven't done 15s on a Fiero in a long time. And never wider than 7".

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 07-21-2014).]

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4thfiero
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Report this Post07-21-2014 09:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yeah my bolt pattern will be 5x100 but the offset will not be stock, maybe like 0 or +3, i understand they will stick out. i will get fender flares and rolled metal fenders if i have too. I am concerned about rubbing in the front, thats why im asking.
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4thfiero
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Report this Post07-21-2014 09:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

4thfiero

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https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.a...7939_829330109_n.jpg

this car has a +40 offset (around there) and is using 15x8 0offset wheels. Those are the ones i would like. he rolled his fenders a little
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Bloozberry
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Report this Post07-21-2014 09:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 4thfiero:
Yeah my bolt pattern will be 5x100 but the offset will not be stock, maybe like 0 or +3, i understand they will stick out. i will get fender flares and rolled metal fenders if i have too.


In the front, they will stick out 62mm (2-7/16") more than stock, per side. For the outside surface of those 8" wheels to sit at the same place as the stock front 15" wheels, they would need an offset of +62mm, but then they would surely rub on something on the inside edge.

The other problem with the wheels you're proposing is that they're going to increase the scrub radius by 96%, going from the stock 40mm to 77mm. That's going to result in a harder steering effort when the car is stopped, and it will transfer bumps in the road through the steering column as sharp jerks through the steering wheel. If you can live with those compromises then go for it, but if I were you, I'd reconsider using a different offset and width at least on the front.
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Report this Post07-21-2014 10:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here's a drawing of those wheels (red) compared to stock (grey) to help visualize just how much they will stick out.

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4thfiero
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Report this Post07-21-2014 10:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:


In the front, they will stick out 62mm (2-7/16") more than stock, per side. For the outside surface of those 8" wheels to sit at the same place as the stock front 15" wheels, they would need an offset of +62mm, but then they would surely rub on something on the inside edge.

The other problem with the wheels you're proposing is that they're going to increase the scrub radius by 96%, going from the stock 40mm to 77mm. That's going to result in a harder steering effort when the car is stopped, and it will transfer bumps in the road through the steering column as sharp jerks through the steering wheel. If you can live with those compromises then go for it, but if I were you, I'd reconsider using a different offset and width at least on the front.


i dont understand the 62mm more. Isnt the stock offset 37mm in the front, and if i get 0 offset.. wouldnt they stick out 37mm more than stock???
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Report this Post07-21-2014 10:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looks like you replied before you saw my second post with the drawing. It's a bit complicated to explain but here goes: "Offset" is the distance that the mounting surface of the wheel is from the centerline of the wheel. If you've got a stock 6" wide wheel with a 37mm offset, then it means that the mounting surface is moved 37mm further outboard than if it were a zero offset wheel where the mounting surface would be exactly between the inboard and outboard edges of the rim. The center of a 6" rim is 3" from either edge so the mounting surface on a 6" wide ET 37mm wheel is 76mm (3") minus 37mm = 39mm away from the outboard tire bead seat.

If you change the width of the rim to 8" and keep the same 37mm offset, the mounting surface of the wheel is still only moved 37mm outboard from the centerline of the rim, but the centerline of an 8" rim isn't 3" away from either edge anymore, it's 4". That means the outboard tire bead seat is now 102mm (4") minus 37mm = 65 mm away from the wheel mounting surface. That's a full 26mm further away from the mounting flange than stock example given above. What this shows is that if you change the wheel width, even if you keep the same offset as a narrower wheel, the outboard (and inboard) edges of the wheel change location. If you change the width and the offset as you've done, the extra width and the change in offset compound and make matters even worse.

If simply widening the wheels to 8" and keeping the offset at 37mm would've resulted in an outer tire bead located 26mm further outboard than stock (as shown above), then changing the offset to zero on those 8" wide wheels as you would like to do would move the outboard bead a further 37mm outboard (26mm + 37mm = 63mm). That's why you're looking at a huge jump in the placement of the outboard edge of the wheel.
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4thfiero
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Report this Post07-21-2014 11:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
thank you for that detailed response, and no i dont see any drawing....sorry.

So question becomes...what size wheel would i need to NOT damage my scrub radius and stuff. I still want a dish look...but the more positive the offset the flatter the wheels....

how do other cars pull off wheels like this?
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Report this Post07-22-2014 12:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroBoboClick Here to Email FieroBoboSend a Private Message to FieroBoboEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The link listed below might help you visualize what will happen when you make changes to your wheel width and/or wheel offsets.
http://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp

Hope this helps.
~ Bob ~

------------------
"Its nice to be important.
Its more important to be nice."

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4thfiero
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Report this Post07-22-2014 01:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks again for the chart, i played around with it and looked at it, but i have to be honest, i dont really know what im looking at, i understand the picture? but how offset works and why a 0 offset will basically mess up my handling is not clicking...

Like ive looked up mazda miata and ae86 stock offsets, some cars have an ever MORE positive offset than the Fiero...and they run ET0 if not -15 sometimes! They have to roll fenders and get flares but...thats about it. Im still confused as to how cars like ae86 and datsun 240z and miata's are running 0 offset and they all seem to be fine....whats the difference??? Why cant i make it work on the Fiero.
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4thfiero
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Report this Post07-22-2014 01:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
like looka t this, this is watanabe's matching guide for mazda's...both the rx7 fs3s and mx5 are "known" for having deep dish wheels of 0 or less...but these cars have high positive offset stock!!!!!

http://www.watanabe.com.au/...da_matching_data.pdf

So how the heck are they pulling it off? are they changing the dynamics of there suspension to HAVE 0 offset? This is killing me.
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Report this Post07-22-2014 07:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 4thfiero:
thank you for that detailed response, and no i dont see any drawing....sorry.


Do you still not see the drawing I posted?

 
quote
Originally posted by 4thfiero:
So question becomes...what size wheel would i need to NOT damage my scrub radius and stuff.


If you wanted to have zero change in the scrub radius while using a zero offset wheel, you'd need a wheel with a rim width narrower than the stock 6", not wider.

 
quote
Originally posted by 4thfiero:
I still want a dish look...but the more positive the offset the flatter the wheels... how do other cars pull off wheels like this?


They either accept a compromise in handling, or they redesign their suspension systems.

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2.5
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Report this Post07-22-2014 11:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Alot of people just go for the look and dont even consider the handling, rock hard ride, or damaging over time.
That Mazda has room for 0 suspension travel, its a trade off.
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Steve25
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Report this Post07-22-2014 12:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Steve25Click Here to Email Steve25Send a Private Message to Steve25Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroBobo:

The link listed below might help you visualize what will happen when you make changes to your wheel width and/or wheel offsets.
http://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp

Hope this helps.
~ Bob ~




Great tool!!!!!

Thanks for posting that.

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4thfiero
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Report this Post07-22-2014 02:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Okay so...forgive my ignorance...

How does one redesign there suspension system?? Completely custom fabrication? I dont think i want a narrower wheel than 6'', it would look too skinny....

does anyone know the maximus offset you can do down by? like (+21, +15 ect) that someone could throw on a Fiero without messing everything up to the point of bad handling? whats the range i can work with if I DONT redesign the suspention?

Thanks for all the input guys, i really appreciate it.

Yeah blooz, i didnt see the picture yesterday on a friends pc, i guess he didnt do his latest update...lol. i see it now, thank you
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4thfiero
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Report this Post07-22-2014 03:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
alright nvm...it seems according to a few mechanic and wheel experts in my city that going to a 0 offset on my car either way is gonna mess everything up, i CAN do it, but i dont wanna pay the price on handling. I think your right blooz, the other cars are suffering in other ways going to that offset...ugh..i saw this picture. of 16x7 watanabe's on a civic with +25, these look pretty cool too. I'll get the wheels at +30 in the front and +25 in the back, will that be enough to stay within my fenders? and not mess up my handling so bad?

http://i111.photobucket.com.../Edited/IMG_0761.jpg
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Report this Post07-22-2014 04:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you want to maintain the stock scrub radius the here are the offsets you need to have for various wheel widths along with the minimum offsets I would personally consider using on the front:

6" ET +37 (min +30)
6.5" ET +42 (min +37)
7" ET +48 (min +42)
7.5" ET +55 (min +48)
8" ET +62 (min +55)
8.5" ET +68 (min +62)

Keep in mind this list isn't a guarantee that the tire won't rub a control arm or the fender liner at full lock. There is no magic formula to determine that. To ensure that there's no interference with other parts, you generally have to increase the overall diameter of the wheel as you get to wider rim widths. (Others may chime in and say I'm full of malarkey because they use such and such a wheel with X offset and haven't noticed any ill effects. I'm not going to take that bait as I've described the ill effects of insufficient offset many times).


What you will find is that there are very few wheels available off-the-shelf in any of those widths and offset combinations that also have a 5 x 100 bolt pattern, simply because not many cars use them. Then to complicate matters, any wheel that fits just right on the front of an '88 will be too far tucked in if used on the back, so different wheel widths and/or offsets are required for the rear. Finding a staggered set of wheels that suit your tastes is particularly challenging for the '88. It took me two years. Your best bet is to search the forum for any of the "Let's see your wheels" threads and see what others have used and what they look like. Often they'll list the dimensions right in the thread, but you may have to send them a PM to get the details. Pick a few different ones you like because the other thing you'll find is that many wheels that were available just a few short years ago are no longer available at all. Good luck!
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4thfiero
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Report this Post07-22-2014 05:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the help blooz

Yeah im looking at the f8 fitment chart here for the watanabe wheels

http://www.watanabe.com.au/page10.html

I currently have (i believe) 16x7 centerlines in the front and 16x8 centerlines in my rear. I dont know the offset. I need to remove them and check. The setup came with my car from my uncle. He said this is the best setup for the fiero, and these rims were made specifically for the Fiero...i dont know if he got them one offed or they made this style specific for fieros...but i'll find out, i dont know what offsets he had. and the width looks great. so i will copy those settings and get the watanabe's in the same size i think.

BTW how much do u guys think a set of 16x7 and 16x8 centerlines are worth if i sold them? Below is a pic of the rims im reffering too, though not on my car. Its someone elses. But same wheels.

http://www.hotrodders.com/f...=116154&d=1390743859

[This message has been edited by 4thfiero (edited 07-22-2014).]

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Raydar
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Report this Post07-22-2014 10:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 4thfiero:

Thanks for the help blooz

Yeah im looking at the f8 fitment chart here for the watanabe wheels

http://www.watanabe.com.au/page10.html



Holy hell, those are some expensive wheels.

The general rule that I use when wheel shopping for a Fiero is that anything that will fit a Volkswagen "new Beetle" will also work well on a Fiero (within reason.)
The 88 front is a special case. For that I usually shop wheels for a Subaru Impreza. They will have the correct bolt circle, and the higher offset required by the 88 front.
Although Subies have a smaller center bore (56mm vs the Fiero's 57mm), most aftermarket wheels are a "universal" fit, and have something like a 72mm centerbore, and use hubcentric rings to tighten them up.
This isn't exactly what you want to hear, but it's kept me out of trouble.
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4thfiero
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Report this Post07-23-2014 12:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thats an interesting way to shop, thanks for that tip, i appreciate it.

Yeah those wheels are expensive, but in my opinion, they REALLY suit older cars and are unheard of on a Fiero. I cant find one single picture of someone throwing watanabe's on a Fiero. mostly bcc they live in the JDM world. My car is a BIT of a one off. Which makes projects like mine hard bcc none else is doing what I would like to do with the Fiero. Like the watanabe wheels. Or the RX7 tail lights and Rally front end with the piaa halogen rally lights.ect...

I will admit, and i might get screamed at for this, im an imports guy, i love jdm. If i didnt have my Fiero i would have a JDM car easy. But my Fiero is sentimental and i could never get rid of her, so i would like to "bring her into" the JDM world in its own Domestic way...like a white kid like me visiting Japan, LOL. I like to think of my car walking both worlds. Hense my willingness to pay for these watanabe's. Pray for me...lol!

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Report this Post07-23-2014 08:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CsjagClick Here to Email CsjagSend a Private Message to CsjagEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Those wheels look a lot like the mini-lites that people used to put on MG's. Another factor most people don't consider when buying wheels is how much they weigh. Heavy wheels negatively affect throttle response and handling.
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