OMG that's a lot of parts! Does anybody make a upgrade kit that has the o-rings, the high and low side port adapters, the orifice tube and accumulator? Or is any part of this in kit form? Did I leave any thing out? I want to convert to 134A and was just wondering if someone had a complete list of parts and you post this. Great timing. Seriously. Thanks.
Outstanding parts list for AC work. As this one thread contains all the part numbers this should save people a lot of time. I've got it bookmarked into my favorites for reference. BTW, what are you thoughts regarding the variable orifice tubes? Good idea or a waste of money?
OMG that's a lot of parts! Does anybody make a upgrade kit that has the o-rings, the high and low side port adapters, the orifice tube and accumulator? Or is any part of this in kit form?
Short answer, no. I've cataloged a few o-ring assortments, some even sold as being for the Fiero, and the closest I've found is one that has all but one of the O-rings (Four Seasons 26735, missing one #8 captured o-ring). The 'kits' you see at parts stores are just too generic, and the off-the-shelf fittings are generally of poor quality.
Originally posted by gtoformula:
BTW, what are you thoughts regarding the variable orifice tubes? Good idea or a waste of money?
The Service Manuals seem to be out to lunch on their torque specs...
Anyone else notice this?
The inline fittings on the high pressure side lines are generally 30 ft/lbs, the low pressure side line fittings are 17 ft/lbs.
I really worry with the 30 ft/lb torque on the high side. You keep worrying you will strip the nuts. Then when you take it apart, the end of the tube has slightly deformed and it can be very problematic separating it.
The Manual then has only 3 ft/lbs of torque applied to the hose manifold connection to the compressor. These seem to be the same in all the manuals from 84 to 88 no matter what the compressor. I could see this may be adequate for the compressors with O-rings.
But with the steel Sealing Washers it has to be under-torqued?? I checked around and didn't see any other car with such a low torque spec for that manifold connection. I'm wondering if that's just a recycled typo in the manuals?
To add, if you don't open the lines, (where the o-rings go) you do not have to change them for a 134a conversion, that was the old school of thought, just to save everyone ALOT of hassle. This comes from the EPA themselves.
The difference between the fixed and variable orifice tubes takes ALOT of reading from the designer, to summarize, the variable helps to draw liquid instead of gas when you are supposed to draw liquid. (Both will work in a Fiero)
Also for the V5, the Compressor Control Valve, (The most common thing to go out on a V5 BTW) comes in different ratings, (the color dot on the end) one side of the scale is for R-12 the other side of the scale is for 134a, get the right one for what you are using.
And the factory low pressure switch is still available. Santech MT0207 at autozone, AND has a screw in it that adjusts the pressure. Or also we have a STACK of them we pulled off Fieros, probably like 50+
I deal alot with A/C here is Vegas as it is just stupid hot here.
Edit to add: Fierosound...you really need A/C in Canada? Really?
Thanks for the parts list reminders. Second rebuild of ac - reman compressor leaking. Orifice clogged. Bought a new one this time. Question is - "experts" recommend new muffler hose - not to be flushed. Can't afford it. Many have been successful I assume flushing it.. Will flush everything else best I can. Any suggestions for cleaning greatly appreciated. Cleaned using Flush bottle. Not all bad got a couple years out of 1st conversion. Learn as you go DUH! Don't want to do this AGAIN THOUGH!.
Good list. 87-88 Dukes have V5 compressor and may need different hose seals at that point. Check #'s before ordering. (check anyway for change/discontinued #.)
Note: High Side R134 have several types to convert R12. Many are just adapters using old R12 valve core. Some others have a new core.
Any using old R12 type core uses part of test port as a seat to seal them. Often that section gets damage and leaks. Adapters w/ new valve stops the leaks here.
Many can install w/o removing old core but check. Strait ones new core tip reaches old core. Angle ones compress the old core all the time during/after install. Might leak some to install.
Alternately can use a metal high side R12 cap and permanent seal then use a saddle R134 high side but is more work/cost. Can't find a pict for best ones for cars but work sim to ice maker taps for plumbing. (Found other but not w/ right part for cars.)
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
A new one is a good idea, the passage inside is microscopic, and the screens act as a filter keep junk from being sucked through the system and into the compressor. The standard ones are $2.00 and almost every parts store will have them. I had to special order the other ones previously.
The more expensive $30 variable ones are made to improve cooling when the car is stopped, like in traffic or just idling. It's meant to more closely mimic the operation of the thermal expansion valve used by most non-GM systems. Standard VS Variable though, nobody seems to agree if it's worth it or not. One thing to consider is it introduces moving parts to what previously was dead simple, introducing a potential failure point.
If you can get good performance from the standard one, I wouldn't bother upgrading. If the standard orifice tube doesn't perform well at idle or in traffic, it may be worth trying to see if conditions improve.
RWDPLZ, can we add compressors to this? I think that would be very helpful for people researching what they need. For me it was tough to figure out which part number HR6 Compressor to use on my 87 2.8. I know now, but it would have been very helpful and handty to have it here, which is what I used to get the right switches etc to rebuild my system.
Also, should you ask Cliff to put this in the how to section to keep it out of the archives? It is incredibly valuable info, thank you!
Originally posted by RWDPLZ: The more expensive $30 variable ones are made to improve cooling when the car is stopped, like in traffic or just idling. It's meant to more closely mimic the operation of the thermal expansion valve used by most non-GM systems. Standard VS Variable though, nobody seems to agree if it's worth it or not. One thing to consider is it introduces moving parts to what previously was dead simple, introducing a potential failure point.
Standard VS Variable orifice tube is tough call. A lot of money for what they are. Many hate them others love them. May work w/ clutch slapper types like HR6/DA6 but won't use it w/ V5/V7 because may mess up the control valve in them because basically two things are trying to do same job.
"Standard OT" can have different colors too. GM etc have 2 or more, White (and Black/White) for R12 and some cars another color for R134a w/ different (smaller I think) hole size. (Ford had 5 colors w/ different hole sizes.) Example Only publitas.com TX2611 TX0056 TX2616 I see many GM site are using the blue tube w/ R134 but have not tried this.
Other "Expansion Valves" often have different names depending car/truck Brands but many are same... Often on the firewall, 2 or 4 lines going to a large block and "UFO" disk on one side. When they are bad often acts like no refrigerant yet can cause very high side pressure when use a full manifold gauge set. If completely bad can or Worse many are fooled by ads saying just add refrigerant and make more problems causing to blowing out high side parts. That can cause Hundreds of $ to fix them. I recently got rid of a car w/ this setup because dead AC cost to much to fix.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 07-06-2018).]
You need to purchase a new compressor. Dont do what I did and get a rebuilt to fail later . TOO MUCH WORK to redo. Autozone has a kit. A/C Replacement kit New. HR6 compressor. Includes: compressor, accumulator, white orifice tube, compressor oil, O-ring kit. Complete Kit Includes #s: 58255, 33181, 38623. Get an HR6 not a DA6. This is for 87 2.8 Good Luck
[This message has been edited by fierobug (edited 09-24-2018).]
Where can I buy this complete setup? acsource appears to be closed.
Looks like the link is back up.
SMART VOV - High Performance Orifice Tubes
Now your customers can have:
5° - 12°F colder air (at hot idle) Reduced compressor load and extended compressor life Improved performance when converting from R-12 to R-134a Improved city fuel economy & emissions Improved performance in factory R134a systems
How it works
The Smart VOV (variable orifice valve) uses system pressure and refrigerant flow to move a metering piston relative to a fixed opening in the sleeve. The piston movement is resisted by an attached spring.
When idling at high ambient temperatures, the piston shifts to a smaller metering area similar to a TXV. This compensates for the reduced compressor output and increases the cooling performance. The Smart VOV also has a unique re-open feature which reduces compressor pressure for severe idle conditions.
At highway speeds, the Smart VOV operates on a large orifice. The net result is better performance than a TXV without the complexity or reliability concerns.
Unlike a TXV, which has constantly moving parts and small internal clearances, the Smart VOV is stationary during most operating conditions and has large internal clearances. Its low friction floating design insures smooth operation and extremely long life.
For o-rings, you might want to look at TFS (the Fiero Store). I purchased a conversion kit R12 to R134a from them with all the o-rings and fittings and compressor oil. Cost is around US $40. Suggest you get a new refrigerant accumulator and orifice tube. Have a shop pull a vacuum on the system before you recharge and make sure it holds.