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Harmonic balancer/pulley removal? by Taijiguy
Started on: 07-13-2014 10:32 AM
Replies: 11 (230 views)
Last post by: GKDINC on 07-14-2014 03:33 PM
Taijiguy
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Report this Post07-13-2014 10:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TaijiguyClick Here to Email TaijiguySend a Private Message to TaijiguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So I just picked up a whole 350 setup and am tearing the motor apart just to see how messed up it is. It has an integrated balancer/pulley setup wit the shaft that extends through the wheel well for the water pump drive (which I'm not reusing) but there was no bolt holding the balancer/pulley to the crank. I was going to just try to press it off but I've never encountered one of these before so I figured I should ask if there's some trick or oddball way these are typically held in place, as having the shaft sticking out 6 inches and the tension of a belt just seems like an invitation to have the balancer come wobbling off. So I'm assuming there's some way it's secured that I'm just not seeing.

This is the balancer, does it just press off, or....? And yes, that's water running out of there. I'll be doing a build thread and will cover the details of how that came to be later on.


[This message has been edited by Taijiguy (edited 07-13-2014).]

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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post07-13-2014 10:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It looks like a regular harmonic balancer puller will do it. You can get them many places for around twenty bucks. Putting it back on may require a different tool, but that can be borrowed from O'Reilly's to name one. You just attach the tool using provided bolts for those holes, then turn the center shaft. I have the puller, but haven't used it, at least not for it's intended purpose. Summit Racing has ATI balancers that can be 'tuned' but they cost over three hundred bucks.
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Taijiguy
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Report this Post07-13-2014 01:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TaijiguyClick Here to Email TaijiguySend a Private Message to TaijiguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I thought it probably would come off with a puller (I have one already) but I was just surprised there appears to be nothing holding the balancer on. I haven't tried it yet as I'm hoping someone who has used or installed one of these might confirm that it will just pull off. I just don't want to break something or create some problem by using a puller if there is in fact something that's holding it place that I just can't see.
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rogergarrison
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Report this Post07-13-2014 05:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Use a puller to remove the damper. I cringed at a local garage as I watched a licenced mechanic pound a balancer back on with a hammer. I was ALWAYS told to use the bolts to draw the pulley on and NEVER to pound it on. If its too far out to get the original bolt started, I just used a longer one till it was in enough, to replace it with the original one. I cant say for a Fiero specificly, but usually there is a key and key slot so it goes on in the right position.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 07-13-2014).]

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Taijiguy
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Report this Post07-13-2014 08:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TaijiguyClick Here to Email TaijiguySend a Private Message to TaijiguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yeah, that's kind of the point, this set up doesn't have a balancer bolt going into the end of the crank. The crank is set up for one as you would expect, but with the water pump pulley installed (in the picture) you wouldn't be able to use the bolt, the pulley assembly there just bolts directly to the balancer.

I'm just trying to find out if there's a way that balancer is attached to the crank that I'm just not seeing. I just want clarification before I put a puller on it and eff something up. It just seems very unlikely that the balancer is simply pushed onto the crank and run that way.
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Report this Post07-13-2014 10:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SpoonSend a Private Message to SpoonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Are there threads in the hole where a bolt would normally go? If not then use puller.

Spoon

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Report this Post07-14-2014 08:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TONY_CSend a Private Message to TONY_CEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If there are no threads in the crankshaft snout then that is not a 350 crank. Chevy started threading the cranks in 1968 when they switched to larger journal cranks, they also began production of 350s that same year. They also began to make cranks from cast iron and not from steel in 1968, that was the reason for making the journals larger although they still made forged steel crankshafts for HiPo engines (302 and 350) but the majority were cast iron. Also, that balancer looks too narrow to be from a 350.
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Report this Post07-14-2014 11:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Could it be theres supposed to be a center bolt thats not there ? I forget if Archie had a special balancer for his kits or not. Seems to me I remember he had one that was smaller to clear the cradle...but I could be wrong. My V8 car ran the toothed belt water pump drive in the wheel well with no problems. I never trusted electric water pumps. It was simple to replace the belt if needed in a few minutes with no tools. I dont recall any engine I worked on that didnt have bolts to secure the balancer to the crank. If that water pump pulley is added on, maybe the balancer bolt is underneath it where you cant see it...
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Taijiguy
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Report this Post07-14-2014 12:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TaijiguyClick Here to Email TaijiguySend a Private Message to TaijiguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by TONY_C:

If there are no threads in the crankshaft snout then that is not a 350 crank. Chevy started threading the cranks in 1968 when they switched to larger journal cranks, they also began production of 350s that same year. They also began to make cranks from cast iron and not from steel in 1968, that was the reason for making the journals larger although they still made forged steel crankshafts for HiPo engines (302 and 350) but the majority were cast iron. Also, that balancer looks too narrow to be from a 350.


I just found out yesterday that it's a 400 crank. It's a been a L-O-N-G time since I last built a SBC, but if memory serves me, it is press fit, which answers my question.

[This message has been edited by Taijiguy (edited 07-14-2014).]

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TONY_C
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Report this Post07-14-2014 01:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TONY_CSend a Private Message to TONY_CEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Taijiguy:


I just found out yesterday that it's a 400 crank. It's a been a L-O-N-G time since I last built a SBC, but if memory serves me, it is press fit, which answers my question.



All SBC balancers are press fit. A 400 crank should also have the tapped hole for a 3/8-16 bolt too since 400 cranks were produced after 1968. Also, if that is indeed a 400 crank in a 350 block it has to have had the journals cut down to fit the block as 400 cranks used an even bigger journal size than the larger journal 350 cranks. Since you have the head off, did you measure the bore and stroke yet?
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Taijiguy
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Report this Post07-14-2014 01:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TaijiguyClick Here to Email TaijiguySend a Private Message to TaijiguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by TONY_C:


All SBC balancers are press fit. A 400 crank should also have the tapped hole for a 3/8-16 bolt too since 400 cranks were produced after 1968. Also, if that is indeed a 400 crank in a 350 block it has to have had the journals cut down to fit the block as 400 cranks used an even bigger journal size than the larger journal 350 cranks. Since you have the head off, did you measure the bore and stroke yet?


I realize they're all "press fit", but most also use the bolt. I can't tell if this one is threaded for a bolt or not, even it it is, there wasn't one installed which is the reason I was asking about that in the first place. This one appears that the balancer is just press fit on, and wasn't using the bolt. Whether the crank is threaded for one or not is really kind of beside the point. It wasn't used and given the setup with the extended pulley setup, I was a bit baffled by that.

Edit- and yeah, I measured the bore, it seemed to be between 4.040 and 4.050. My calipers aren't all the great so they were probably a bit off, but definitely way more than the stock 4". I can't measure the stroke yet as I don't want to turn the motor with water in the crankcase, it's bad enough without sucking water into the oil pump. Plus there's a lot of rust on the cylinder walls that I want to clean off before moving the pistons.

[This message has been edited by Taijiguy (edited 07-14-2014).]

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Report this Post07-14-2014 03:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GKDINCSend a Private Message to GKDINCEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Archie's kit used only a press on fit, no bolt holding it on.
Good Luck
Gary
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