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Is it possible to get ignition keys for our old cars cut using the VIN ? by Patrick
Started on: 07-11-2014 12:33 PM
Replies: 36 (1047 views)
Last post by: notwohorns on 07-08-2015 09:05 PM
Patrick
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Report this Post07-11-2014 12:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I've had an '88 Formula for just under a year. The ignition lock has often been very finicky to turn (either way). Sometimes I'd have to fiddle with it for a few seconds, and sometimes it would take longer. Last night it decided it wasn't going to turn... period.

I suspect the problem might be the worn key. However, I only have one ignition key and it's not a GM original. It has a couple of codes on it. There is a C stamped on the metal blade, and B50P or B5OP is stamped or molded into the plastic jacket.

If a key is worn to the point where it won't turn the ignition, I suspect there's no use trying to cut a new key using it as a guide. Is it still possible to get a GM dealership or a locksmith to cut a new key using the car's VIN, or is that totally out of the question with a 26 year old vehicle?
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Report this Post07-11-2014 12:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tesmith66Send a Private Message to tesmith66Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm willing to bet it's the lock cylinder and the key. Replace the cylinder and you get new keys with it.

------------------
1986 SE Aero coupe.

3.4 DOHC swap is complete and running, now just have to finish the rest of the car...

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Patrick
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Report this Post07-11-2014 12:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tesmith66:

Replace the cylinder and you get new keys with it.


Easier said than done.

You might be 100% correct about the lock cylinder being worn, but I'd sure like to try a replacement key first!
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jaskispyder
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Report this Post07-11-2014 12:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would call your local dealer. They may or may not offer this service.
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Patrick
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Report this Post07-11-2014 12:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jaskispyder:

I would call your local dealer.


I will, but I was hoping to be armed with knowledge from anyone who may've gone through this themselves... especially within the last few years.
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jaskispyder
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Report this Post07-11-2014 12:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

I will, but I was hoping to be armed with knowledge from anyone who may've gone through this themselves... especially within the last few years.


I guess if they do it... cool, if not, they won't. If my local dealer offers the service, yours may not. I know, it isn't the answer you want, but it only takes a phone call to find out what is available in your area

BTW, I haven't heard of a locksmith being able to use the VIN, but maybe they can. I think they just pull the ignition or replace it and match up the key.
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post07-11-2014 01:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you are going to take the cylinder out, might as well replace it with the new cylinder along with new keys the way I look at it.

$22 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/84-...em2337de6fe3&vxp=mtr

If you have a steering column laying around (don't we all?) you can just swap the column.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 07-11-2014).]

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Patrick
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Report this Post07-11-2014 01:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

If you have a steering column laying around (don't we all?) you can just swap the column.


Guess what... yes, I have another steering column here.

However, my Formula is on the other side of the city where I was forced to leave it last night.

This is why it would be really great if I could simply have a new key made from the VIN if all the car needs is a new ignition key that's not all worn down.

I've left a message with the service manager of the local GM dealership. I'll see what he says. He'll probably laugh.
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post07-11-2014 01:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
4 bolts hold the steering column to the dash. One for the steering linkage. 4 screws for the lower plastic cover of the dash.
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Patrick
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Report this Post07-11-2014 01:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I know what's involved to swap over a steering column. If you're suggesting it's easier doing that than simply using a new key, I feel it necessary to disagree.

 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Is it still possible to get a GM dealership or a locksmith to cut a new key using the car's VIN, or is that totally out of the question with a 26 year old vehicle?

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Report this Post07-11-2014 02:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IMSA GTClick Here to Email IMSA GTSend a Private Message to IMSA GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Part of my company is a locksmith division. If you have a worn key, what our locksmiths do in a pinch is they take your worn key and insert it into the cutting machine. They then use a business card and place it within each cut of the old key. That thickness allows less material to be removed from the new key blank and basically allows you to have a new key with the higher key-cuts. You can try that as a last resort.

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 07-11-2014).]

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phonedawgz
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Report this Post07-11-2014 02:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would think it would be easier but let us know. Not looking to be argumentative just suggestive. I am just one of those guys who usually figures it is easier for me to do something myself rather than try to get someone else to do it. So let us know how it goes and hopefully for you, you can prove me wrong.
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Report this Post07-11-2014 02:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for huracan2015Send a Private Message to huracan2015Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No key codes are on record for cars over 25 years old according to dealer. They had to mess around with my old keys to get it right, took 5 tries so eventually they gave me 3 perfect sets for free!
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Patrick
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Report this Post07-11-2014 02:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

I am just one of those guys who usually figures it is easier for me to do something myself rather than try to get someone else to do it.


I like doing things for myself as well, because I'm both handy and cheap. But to suggest that taking a steering column and tools across the city to swap columns in my car on the side of the road somewhere might somehow be "easier" than inserting a new key into the existing lock/steering column... I mean seriously, that's not being very helpful.

 
quote
Originally posted by IMSA GT:

Part of my company is a locksmith division. If you have a worn key, what our locksmiths do in a pinch is they take your worn key and insert it into the cutting machine. They then use a business card and place it within each cut of the old key. That thickness allows less material to be removed from the new key blank and basically allows you to have a new key with the higher key-cuts. You can try that as a last resort.


Now that's being helpful. Thanks.

 
quote
Originally posted by huracan2015:

No key codes are on record for cars over 25 years old according to dealer.


That's unfortunately what I'm expecting to hear from the local dealership as well. Thanks for letting me know your experience.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-11-2014).]

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Report this Post07-11-2014 02:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had a locksmith make a key from having just the lock. It was the doorlock from a 70's Buick, but he made a key from scratch i think it was $20, though this was 15 years ago...
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Patrick
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Report this Post07-11-2014 03:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

I had a locksmith make a key from having just the lock.


Well, I'm not about to strip the steering column down to do that. It would be less trouble to just swap columns.
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Report this Post07-11-2014 03:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My dad was a professional locksmith.

He could look at a worn key and know what the tumbler depth should be for each cut and then cut a new key based on the tumblers... This allowed him to make a factory fresh key w/o copying all the wear from the current key. So my suggestions is to find a good local locksmith and have them make a new one.
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84fiero123
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Report this Post07-11-2014 04:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
In the old days, ayup I am telling my age. When we built them we would put a build sheet in the seats, forget which one but just guessing it would be the drivers seat. The build sheet should have the key code listed on it, if you can find one. If you can find one or have the key code from your original, PM me your code and I can make you a new one, or if you prefer a dealer can make you one, that would be a lot quicker. Not sure if a dealer would still have the codes for the ignition key on their computer but if it has the original steering column in it, not much chance on that but if it does and you can find an original build sheet it should have the original key code on it.

I would go with just bringing the tools to pull the wheel off with and replace with a new ignition switch and keys as you quickest, easiest and best way to do it and geterdone !

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

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Report this Post07-11-2014 05:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I was able to get keys cut from the codes on the car's build sheet. Dealer couldn't do it, but a local locksmith was able to. Found out the ignition lock cylinder was not original, and the brand new door and trunk locks I got with the car were actually cut for the original keys.
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Report this Post07-11-2014 05:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I always found the build sheet under the rear seat cushion stuck on the springs when rebuilding an older car. Id guess Steve is right on the drivers seat if its a 2 seater.

There is a GM database so they can cut a new key from the VIN. Its just a matter of if the dealer wants to bother with it or not. Just keep calling local GM dealers till you find one that will. When they remove the paint code tag or lose it, I call with VIN number to get the factory color code all the time. Same thing, one dealer will tell you he cant and the next will with no problem....and they all have the same access. Just remember its possible your cylinder is worn out too and a new key may not even work in it. In the last few years it has been harder to get keys this way though because of car thefts, so you may have to jump thru a few hoops like bringing your drivers licence and registration to them. Mercedes is the worst. You have to physically bring them your car title, registration, licence and SS number (all with your name on it) before they give you a key. They would NOT give me a trunk key for a 500SEL I was working on. I had to call the dealer that owned it and have them hand carry the title to them before they sent me the key. I also couldnt get an extra ignition key for MY OWN 450SL even though I drove the car there, had the OEM key on me, along with the registration....because I didnt bring the title.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 07-11-2014).]

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Report this Post07-11-2014 06:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bonaduceClick Here to Email bonaduceSend a Private Message to bonaduceEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I just ran my vin for the 86 through gm dealer world and it gave me the codes, patrick if you can pm me your vin I can shoot the codes back to you if they pop up. I should be here at the dealership until 7:30 eastern

dan
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Report this Post07-11-2014 06:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lambo nutSend a Private Message to Lambo nutEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Don't know how far back they can go, but my local dealer will IF you have ID and a title to the car, for hopefully obvious reasons.

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Patrick
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Report this Post07-11-2014 11:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

I always found the build sheet under the rear seat cushion stuck on the springs when rebuilding an older car.


 
quote
Originally posted by RWDPLZ:

I was able to get keys cut from the codes on the car's build sheet.


 
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:

The build sheet should have the key code listed on it, if you can find one. If you can find one or have the key code from your original, PM me your code and I can make you a new one, or if you prefer a dealer can make you one, that would be a lot quicker.


No build sheet to be found (as I swapped out the seats when I got the car a year ago), but Steve, thanks very much for the offer.

 
quote
Originally posted by bonaduce:

I just ran my vin for the 86 through gm dealer world and it gave me the codes, patrick if you can pm me your vin I can shoot the codes back to you if they pop up. I should be here at the dealership until 7:30 eastern


Dan, I was out all afternoon, but I thank you very much for your offer as well.

 
quote
Originally posted by Lambo nut:

Don't know how far back they can go, but my local dealer will IF you have ID and a title to the car, for hopefully obvious reasons.


My local dealer never did get back to me after I left a message. I should've said I wanted to buy a new Vette.

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

My dad was a professional locksmith.

He could look at a worn key and know what the tumbler depth should be for each cut and then cut a new key based on the tumblers... This allowed him to make a factory fresh key w/o copying all the wear from the current key. So my suggestions is to find a good local locksmith and have them make a new one.


You think so?

I'm sure you're all sitting on the edge of your seats wondering what happened this afternoon (west coast time). Well, here's the story. Excuse any possible mistakes in my spelling as I've had two glasses of champagne on an empty stomach.

I packed up my tools and spare steering column, but I had a helluva time finding the key for the spare column. Should've just had it stuck in the ignition, but no, I remember they were in a box of assorted Fiero parts. I have a lot of boxes of assorted Fiero parts. It took awhile. I also decided to stop by a locksmith that was on my way over across town... just in case.

He was a helluva nice guy and spent all kinds of time looking through various catalogs. It appears that many key catalogs no longer even list a Pontiac Fiero. Bastards... but I digress. Eventually the fella found something in some obscure catalog and determined there were eight(?, I forget) different key codes for the '88 Fiero. He looked at my worn non-original key and asked me where it was from. He knew it wasn't local. I told him the car was originally from Knoxville, Tennessee, which is possibly where the key was from as well. Vancouver BC is just a few miles from Knoxville, Tennessee. This fella obviously knows his keys. Anyway, after studying my key for a short while, he said he'd make his best guess as to which code it might actually be. A few minutes later he presented me with a nice shiny newly cut key.

I resumed my journey across town. I was very relieved to see my Fiero still sitting where I parked it yesterday, and with all four wheels still attached. I entered the car, stuck my shiny new key in the ignition, and with great anticipation tried to turn the key. It worked.

I am a happy camper.

Thank-you very much to all who offered their advice and suggestions. I love this forum.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-12-2014).]

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phonedawgz
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Report this Post07-12-2014 01:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Very cool
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Report this Post07-12-2014 01:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

Very cool


...on the hottest day of the year here (so far). Gotta love happy endings.

------------------

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Report this Post07-12-2014 07:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Glad it worked out for you!


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84fiero123
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Report this Post07-12-2014 09:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

...on the hottest day of the year here (so far). Gotta love happy endings.



You have a PM

Steve
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Mickey_Moose
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Report this Post09-22-2014 03:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageClick Here to Email Mickey_MooseSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Old thread, but wanted to add that I had this done last year at a local dealership - they took the VIN, looked up the info, pull out this fancy tool and made some "adjustments" to it. Put the key key into it and "punched" out a newly "cut" key. Worked just fine. Now of course that was last year...

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 09-22-2014).]

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Alex.07.86GT
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Report this Post09-23-2014 12:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex.07.86GTSend a Private Message to Alex.07.86GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When I bought my Fiero New the Keys came with a punch out piece where the key chain goes through. This rectangular plug had a number on it. I was told that this number was used by the dealer to make new keys. I still have them somewhere, but I dont know if the dealer or anybody else can still use them to make a key. Does anybody know about what Im talking about??
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Report this Post09-23-2014 01:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageClick Here to Email Mickey_MooseSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Alex.07.86GT:

When I bought my Fiero New the Keys came with a punch out piece where the key chain goes through. This rectangular plug had a number on it. I was told that this number was used by the dealer to make new keys. I still have them somewhere, but I dont know if the dealer or anybody else can still use them to make a key. Does anybody know about what Im talking about??


I know what you are talking about (I think we still have ours too) - but I can't answer your question(s).
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84fiero123
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Report this Post07-07-2015 01:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Alex.07.86GT:

When I bought my Fiero New the Keys came with a punch out piece where the key chain goes through. This rectangular plug had a number on it. I was told that this number was used by the dealer to make new keys. I still have them somewhere, but I dont know if the dealer or anybody else can still use them to make a key. Does anybody know about what Im talking about??


I can make them from those numbers, I have that fancy tool the dealers use, its called a key cutter and has 6 I think mine has levers that correspond to those numbers in the new key knockouts. I also have the old key code book that gives me the correct way to set those levers on the key cutter. Now if I can still just buy a blank key from like walmart I can make you sets.

Steve
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Report this Post07-07-2015 03:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageClick Here to Email Mickey_MooseSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
One other thing, once upon a time I lost my keys while out with the 1980 TA, locksmith came along pulled the cylinder and took some numbers off it and made a new key as well. Not sure if this also applies to the Fiero as well.
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Report this Post07-07-2015 05:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had a similar experience but it was with a remote key fob that was used for door opening and setting of the alarm. When I purchased my 87 Fiero GT back in the mid 90's it had an Excalibur alarm /remote door opening system. I only had one remote and it worked fine until one day before Carlisle 5 years back it conked out. I was able to open the door with the key and get to the hidden alarm shutoff button. That got me to Carlisle but now two good functions were gone. Got home and found a new battery for the key fob at Advance Auto. The remote began working again but it was erratic. Finally in desperation I found a programmable remote control key on eBay that was sold for alarms and garage door openers. I followed the directions in putting the two units close and was able to get enough of a signal code from the old remote to get the new remote programmed and working. Phew , that was a relief as now the alarm system can stay!!!. This year before Carlisle I purchased another universal remote key fob unit and now we are in good shape. Universal programmable remotes are available for older automotive alarm systems but you must be cautious and get the right key fob.
Here is the one that I was able to program. At $14 it is affordable. My Chrysler Remote costs $275 and its dealer only.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rem...Remote-/111612175440

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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hnthomps
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Report this Post07-07-2015 07:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hnthompsClick Here to Email hnthompsSend a Private Message to hnthompsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

I will, but I was hoping to be armed with knowledge from anyone who may've gone through this themselves... especially within the last few years.


I tried to do that exact same thing a couple of years ago. I went to a GM dealer and was told that they no longer have access to those records. I then got a message from a PFF member (do not remember who at this time) that he had the listing and could provide new keys for some reasonable price ($10-$15 IIRC). I got the keys within a week and they still would not work in my vehicle. It is likely that many of out vehicle lock cylinders may have been changed out over the years.

If I can locate the name of the PFF member I will get it to you and maybe you will have better luck than I did.

Nelson
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Patrick
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Report this Post07-07-2015 08:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hnthomps:

If I can locate the name of the PFF member I will get it to you and maybe you will have better luck than I did.


Nelson, keep in mind this is an old thread which has been resurrected. There was a happy ending a year ago... but thanks!

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-08-2015).]

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fierosound
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Report this Post07-08-2015 11:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:

Old thread, but wanted to add that I had this done last year at a local dealership - they took the VIN, looked up the info, pull out this fancy tool and made some "adjustments" to it. Put the key key into it and "punched" out a newly "cut" key. Worked just fine. Now of course that was last year...



I had new keys cut from the VIN codes for my 87 GT at a dealership LAST MONTH (May 2015)
They worked fine (luckily they are still my original locks and ignition).

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notwohorns
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Report this Post07-08-2015 09:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for notwohornsClick Here to Email notwohornsSend a Private Message to notwohornsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I bought cars for the city auctions without keys. The lock smith just comes out and makes a new key from scratch by inserting blanks and then cutting at the marks left by the locks.
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