I own a 87 fiero 2.5 im thinking about doing a engine swap. been watching all the posts. What is the best 3.8 SC engine to get from what car which is easiest to do? and which engine to stay away from? im sure I can do it . can I keep my auto transmission? I can afford 5000 plus

Series 2 is the best. It has a cable throttle body. S3 is good also engine wise but figure on swapping a S2 throttle body using an adapter plate to make it work.

The TH125C stock Fiero transmission is a POS especially when bolted to a 3800 SC. Too weak. Geared wrong.

So transmission wise the 1996 S2 3800s had a 4T60E transmission. Consider it a second choice.

1997+ S2 3800 and S3 3800 are all 4T65E or 4T65E-HD and are fine.

1996 & 1997 PCMs are too large to fit in the stock console.

If you have an S2 3800 SC or S3 SC 3800 (any year) & 1996 4T60E transmission only the 1996 PCM will run it.
If you have an S2 3800 SC or S3 SC 3800 (any year) & 1997 4T65E you can run it on a 98-02 PCM (that fits in the console).
If you have an S2 3800 SC (any year) & 1998-02 transmission you can run it on the PCM that came with the transmission
If you have an S2 3800 SC (any year) & 03+ transmission you can run it on the PCM that came with the transmission
If you have an S3 3800 SC with a cable throttle body and the transmission that came with it you will need to run it on a S2 PCM.

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: Series 2 is the best. It has a cable throttle body. S3 is good also engine wise but figure on swapping a S2 throttle body using an adapter plate to make it work. The TH125C stock Fiero transmission is a POS especially when bolted to a 3800 SC. Too weak. Geared wrong. So transmission wise the 1996 S2 3800s had a 4T60E transmission. Consider it a second choice. 1997+ S2 3800 and S3 3800 are all 4T65E or 4T65E-HD and are fine. 1996 & 1997 PCMs are too large to fit in the stock console. If you have an S2 3800 SC or S3 SC 3800 (any year) & 1996 4T60E transmission only the 1996 PCM will run it. If you have an S2 3800 SC or S3 SC 3800 (any year) & 1997 4T65E you can run it on a 98-02 PCM (that fits in the console). If you have an S2 3800 SC (any year) & 1998-02 transmission you can run it on the PCM that came with the transmission If you have an S2 3800 SC (any year) & 03+ transmission you can run it on the PCM that came with the transmission If you have an S3 3800 SC with a cable throttle body and the transmission that came with it you will need to run it on a S2 PCM.

Great info Phonedawgz! Series 2 was also my best option for a swap. But you just broke it down perfectly! 4T65E-HD would be the best trans. 5 grand should easily cover it if you do yourself. (not that I done one, but lots of research)

[This message has been edited by Jason88Notchie (edited 06-16-2014).]

im writing this down... next besides the buick riveria what other car has the series 2 motor and how do I know the difference between the series 2 and 3 , of course I want the series 2. and how do I know what transmission it has is there a stamp on trans or a vin number?

tHERES A tag ON THE SIDE OF THE TRANS (ALUMINUM WITH BLUE BACKGROUND). oops ! the HD has a larger tripod coming out of the pass side.

Phonedawgz -

quote S3 is good also engine wise but figure on swapping a S2 throttle body using an adapter plate to make it work

I am just curious, what is the problem with using Drive by Wire with the 3800? I have DBW in my LS1 Fiero and it works great. Is this a problem with hooking up cruise? Or is this some other issue?

On my setup it was much cleaner. I was able to remove the throttle cable and all of the cruise control stuff. On an LS of that vintage, the cruise inputs just hook up to the TAC module. Is the 3800 S3 different?

got on ebay isee what other cars have the engine... so when I buy the engine I buy the trans and computer? or just the whole dang car if its cheap?

found my old thread so my neighbor has a 97 riveria how can I find out if this is a good donor engine is SC but I don't see if its series 1 or 2 what trans does it have

97 Riv 3800 SC is a Series 2. Everything is good about it other than the PCM is bigger than the 98 - 02. $40 for an unprogrammed core PCM so don't let that slow you down.

Drive it. Check the oil to make sure it looks like engine oil and not like chocolate mil. 3800 S2 is rock solid other than the intake manifold gasket. If the gasket leaks, coolant runs into the oil pan. The oil then doesn't lubricate the engine and the engine fails quickly. Most 3800s would have had the suspect gasket replaced a fair amount of time ago. If the gasket goes, the antifreeze in the oil will make it look like a milk shake and will take out the bearings and oil pressure in a very short time.

95 and earlier 3800 SCs were S1. 96 and later are S2.

96 and earlier transmissions were 4T60E - 97+ were 4T65E or more likely 4T65E-HD The 4T60E is the undesirable transmission.

quote Originally posted by johnguzman1212: I own a 87 fiero 2.5 im thinking about doing a engine swap. been watching all the posts. What is the best 3.8 SC engine to get from what car which is easiest to do? and which engine to stay away from? im sure I can do it . can I keep my auto transmission? I can afford 5000 plus

5 grand should cover it well. It should also leave you lots of room for goodies like headers and cam.


-Mitch

I have a mutant.
First, I am of very meager funds. So excuse me. It's not that I'm cheap.
I started out with a 1985 GT. A 1993 Series 1 SC with 16141470 PCM and part of a harness.
Found the rest of the harness and started to solder and heat shrink.
Found a recently reman transmission. 1995 4T60e 5WFW, same ratio as the SC trans for that year and same fine reverse tooth final drive, excert for the beefier HD carrier and output shaft bearing. Had to reroute the internal trans wires to match the ECM. Trans was out of a N body, 3.1(Grand Am, Achieva, etc.). Were able to use both axles, but had to swap the right center shaft for a W body. The outer joints, inners, and left shafts worked great.
Made my own Alt. and engine mount brackets(4 point, no dog bone). Made my own exhaust Y pipe for the Series 1 to route the same as stock.
Burned a EEprom for it and off I went.
3 months later the series 1 spun a bearing. Fun while it lasted. So I had to find another engine in a hurry with little money. So I wasn't going to swap everything else. (4T65e, shafts and wiring)
Found a 1998 Series II SC with around 120,000 miles on it for $400.00. Shows it's age but works. Put the exhaust out the back this time. Had raised the trunk floor 3 inches previously. Muffler under the trunk. The space I lost was made up by loosing the stock Ignition cooler fan assembly. Used the Series II injectors and throttle body with MAF sensors. Everything else electronic was off the Series 1. Remade an alternator bracket and everything else worked. The Maf tables were close enough for the `1993 PCM.

So I have a 1993, cheaply programmable PCM. A 1995 pick and pull trans with axles that has around 11,000 miles on a rebuild for $135.00. A 1998 Series II SC vin 1 for $400.00. In a 1985
But don't let that fool you. There was more spent on the small stuff. Hoses, belt, fuel lines, wiring, knock sensor, coolant sensor, metal plate. motor mounts, mandrel exhaust parts, cradle for mock up, muffler, hangers, clamps, welding rods, drill bits, (valve cover, oil pan, timing cover, intake, gaskets) fluids and the uncountable amount of fasteners. AND LOTS OF TIME.

wow thanks for the info so this is a good donor engine and the chances of the trans being a hd is a good one? thanks for all the info really got much respect for you guys helping me!!! ok now next question it has a coded key for ignition which owner does not have that's why hes selling it but I know it ran great so no problem there but do I have to worry about the ignition ? so I can just get another pcm ?

If you get another PCM, it will most likely have to be flashed anyway. Unless it is for that setup, near year, same engine Series II SC, same trans ratio, with out BCM and Vats or Passkey. It would most likely be easier for you to have the PCM you have reflashed. Least you'll know it matches the trans and engine configuration. Too much of a pain to install the BCM out of the car. Can be done but not worth it. If it was a Vats, I think they changed up in 200/2002, there are modules that supply the PCM with the 50/30 hz signal the PCM expects. If it was a Pass key, the PCM expects a serial code from the BCM.
If you want the Vats option, the ignition lock with the contacts that "reads" the ohms of the key will fit in a Fiero steering collumn. You'll still need to set up a BCM and have that flashed to not look for the other stuff that the car does not have (climate control key less entry, etc).
That is one of the reasons that I stuck with the PCM I have. I already had a EEprom programmer. I can change the Bin when i need to.
If I went to a later PCM, 1997 or later, I would have better fuel control editing, but would need to have a pass through scanner and flash tool and software. 1982 to 1993 use a Prom chip that can be removed, replaced with a EEprom, burned and reinstalled. Old school. 1994-1996 are a bit screwy to program. The internal flash memory don't take kindly to reflashing. 1997 and later are reflashed through the ODBII port.
If you only plan to keep with the same Bin, no changes, it is better to have your PCM flashed for what you intend to do.
When you get the PCM reflashed, you will need to give them some information. Year of PCM, what ratio of trans or broadcast code (i.e. 7afw) what tire size, which injectors flow rate (OE for Series II SC should be around 36 lb), what you don't want the PCM to look for(EGR, downstream O2, Vats/Passkey).
By the way get a better fuel pump, The SC will need it.

wow nice response thanks im new at this but I say fast learner . ok so I don't want the vats or passkey stuff but if the pcm needs it must I use the ignition? can I use my stock ignition? so also I cant use my fiero pcm? what all must I save from the car besides the pcm engine trans and wiring? I have bypassed a ohm chip in key before but im sure this is not that kind but ill check again to be sure. who flashes pcm? so I will keep the pcm have it flashed right but where do I go to see how to wire it up? what fuel pump will I need and does the wiring differ from the stock fiero? I just installed a fuel pump in a avenger and my fiero it should be easy for me just need model number

You can purchase a VATs signal emulator to send the VATs signal to an unprogrammed PCM if you choose to not get yours reprogrammed. Not the way I would go but - $19.99 shipped US - http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-...em4186510605&vxp=mtr - But stated again, if you have the PCM flashed (which you need to do for any non-total-redneck swap) the VATs input requirement will be programmed out of the PCM and this is not needed.

The Fiero ECM will not work. It doesn't have inputs for the 3800 crank and cam sensors. It does not support sequential fuel injection. It is not programmed for a super charger. It is slower than **** . It won't control the 4T65E automatic transmission. It is an 80s ECM that you are wanting to use to control a 2000s engine/transmission.

Grab the fuel pump and the OBD2 connector, along with the engine, transmission and engine harness.

Bypassing the chip in the steering column allows the VATs module located under the dash to act like the VATs emulator listed above.

Ryan GIck - sp1@gmtuners.com - along with many others can flash PCMs. His website is http://gmtuners.com.

Ryan has diagrams on how to wire up the swap harness - http://www.gmtuners.com/files/index.htm

Use the fuel pump from the Riviera - It will fit on the Fiero Fuel Tank bracket.

One more thing - the 97 PCM is physically much larger. The 98 - 02 PCM will run your engine/transmission from your 97 Riviera. The 98 - 02 PCM will fit in the stock Fiero computer location. You can purchase one and have it reflashed or you can purchase a re-programmed one here - http://www.ebay.com/itm/380...em19d21207f8&vxp=mtr - shameless self promotion

If you purchase a PCM locally to have it reflashed, it does not need to be from a supercharged 3800. It can be from any 98-2003 3800. The reflashing will set program it for the supercharger.

quote Originally posted by Fiervette: Phonedawgz - I am just curious, what is the problem with using Drive by Wire with the 3800? I have DBW in my LS1 Fiero and it works great. Is this a problem with hooking up cruise? Or is this some other issue? On my setup it was much cleaner. I was able to remove the throttle cable and all of the cruise control stuff. On an LS of that vintage, the cruise inputs just hook up to the TAC module. Is the 3800 S3 different?

Assuming Ryan or someone else can flash the PCM you are correct, a DBW S3 3800 SC can work. Also I don't know if anyone is reprogramming these PCMs or not, I just want to be complete with my answer.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 10-25-2014).]

wow thanks dawg! I going to buy the whole car anyway but I just don't wanna throw anything away if I need it. im buying the car for 600 bucks with some 20 inch rims which are worth about 300 bucks. I will look up these links. im so happy to start this engine swap my 2.5 duke is smoking already.im not on limited income I can work as much OT as I want at my job so my 5000 limit is off im just not interested in modding it out ill be happy with the 240 HP . lets begin shall we

Subscribed, for future reference.

bought the 97 rivieria for 600 bucks. got about 70 percent unhooked ill be ready to pull out this weekend. a few questions. 1 . how do you remove the axles out of transmission? 2.it looks like I might be able to use headers cause my exhaust goes out the middle,,,its a lambo replica...or am I dreaming I keep hearing people having trouble with the headers remember my car is stretched 10.5 inches. also the exhaust on this car goes down the middle is this weird ive never seen this before 3. where is the engine computer? 4.my car I have room for this high mount alt but is it going to hit the sidewall? thanks if any can answer these for my much respect...bty I got free 20s with tires on this car I can sell for 300 bucks so i really bought car for 300 bones

my car is a l67 series 2 sc 3.8 v6 1997 with the 4t65e hd transmission im guessing this is a great motor/trans ... I understand the ecm is too big but I can mount it behind ,my seat or in rear no problem for me my car is 10.5 inches longer in engine compartment