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85 2.5 Starter Trouble by PurpleGryphon
Started on: 06-08-2014 05:04 PM
Replies: 17 (302 views)
Last post by: Csjag on 06-11-2014 08:08 AM
PurpleGryphon
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Report this Post06-08-2014 05:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PurpleGryphonSend a Private Message to PurpleGryphonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have an 85 2.5 automatic. Got in the car to head home from church this morning, cranked it, and about halfway to running, it just gave up. Everything turns on when the key is on, but the starter won't turn over. Got under the car and found that the fusible link to the starter had failed, so we swapped that out, but it still won't start. Went to drop the starter, and it looks like the bracket is held in place between the A/C compressor and the engine block. Having a really difficult time getting anywhere with this. Am I missing something? Or is the starter really that difficult to get to? My Haynes manual says nothing about the A/C compressor in the removal instructions. Any tips would be appreciated.
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Csjag
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Report this Post06-08-2014 05:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CsjagClick Here to Email CsjagSend a Private Message to CsjagEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have an 85 2.5 5 speed and have changed the starter a couple of times. The hardest thing was getting the starter past the catalytic converter after the bolts were out. I am not sure if the auto is any different but I wouldn't think so, You might want to loosen the ac compressor bracket bolt that's used to tighten the belt and slide the compressor on the bracket for more clearance,
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Gall757
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Report this Post06-08-2014 05:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post06-08-2014 05:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The fusible link by the starter leads power AWAY from the starter. It's not part of the circuit that activates the starter.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 06-08-2014).]

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PurpleGryphon
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Report this Post06-08-2014 05:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PurpleGryphonSend a Private Message to PurpleGryphonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Csjag:

I have an 85 2.5 5 speed and have changed the starter a couple of times. The hardest thing was getting the starter past the catalytic converter after the bolts were out. I am not sure if the auto is any different but I wouldn't think so, You might want to loosen the ac compressor bracket bolt that's used to tighten the belt and slide the compressor on the bracket for more clearance,


I'm think that maybe what I have going on is aftermarket, because based on what you said, Gall757's link, and my manual, the bracket should be held on by a bolt, but mine isn't. The A/C compressor and the starter bracket are both held onto a threaded post with a nut. That means no sliding the starter bracket out from under the A/C compressor once the nut comes off, unfortunately.

My A/C doesn't work, and the belt bypasses the compressor, so could I just remove the A/C compressor possibly?
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PurpleGryphon
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Report this Post06-08-2014 05:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PurpleGryphonSend a Private Message to PurpleGryphonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

PurpleGryphon

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quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

The fusible link by the starter leads power AWAY from the starter. It's not part of the circuit that activates the starter.



Either way, it was melted, so we replaced it.
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Csjag
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Report this Post06-08-2014 06:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CsjagClick Here to Email CsjagSend a Private Message to CsjagEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
now that I think about it I did have to bend the bracket that attaches to the end of the starter away from the starter to get the stud on the starter to clear the bracket
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PurpleGryphon
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Report this Post06-08-2014 06:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PurpleGryphonSend a Private Message to PurpleGryphonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Csjag:

now that I think about it I did have to bend the bracket that attaches to the end of the starter away from the starter to get the stud on the starter to clear the bracket


Okay, I'll attempt to bend the bracket to get it out of there.
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Csjag
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Report this Post06-08-2014 08:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CsjagClick Here to Email CsjagSend a Private Message to CsjagEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
good luck, you should be able to. If you replace the starter consider one of the smaller and lighter gear reduction starters as used on the 97 Gran Prix, they bolt right up and are smaller and easier to install.
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PurpleGryphon
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Report this Post06-09-2014 02:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PurpleGryphonSend a Private Message to PurpleGryphonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Got the old starter off and tested it. It was dead, so I went a bought a new starter and installed it. And it still won't even turn over. I forgot to test the new starter before I installed it, so it's possible that I got a bad part.

Should I start looking into other possibilities? If so, where do I start?
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TONY_C
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Report this Post06-09-2014 02:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TONY_CSend a Private Message to TONY_CEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Check to make sure you have 12V at the starter at the battery cable connection. If you do then check to make sure you have 12V at the small wire (i think it's purple) at the solenoid when the key is in the start position. Of course, be careful if you are doing this under the car. I have one of those remote starter switches, one lead clips to the battery cable on the starter and the other connects to the terminal on the solenoid. You can press the button on the switch and crank the engine remotely (be sure the car is not in gear. If that works then you have wiring issues. Also, did you connect the small wire to the correct terminal on the starter? there are two terminals, R and S, I believe. You need to connect to the S terminal.

[This message has been edited by TONY_C (edited 06-09-2014).]

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Report this Post06-09-2014 04:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TopNotchClick Here to visit TopNotch's HomePageSend a Private Message to TopNotchEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you don't have the remote start switch mentioned in the last message, you can jumper from the solenoid post (with the small wire) to the post with the big wire, with a screwdriver. The starter should run when you do that. Also, sparks will fly -- don't let that scare you. Just don't jumper the wrong post on the solenoid (the grounded one).

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PurpleGryphon
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Report this Post06-09-2014 07:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PurpleGryphonSend a Private Message to PurpleGryphonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's home. Managed to jump the solenoid with a screwdriver while the ignition was on to get it running so it could get here, since it will be significantly easier to fix it at home. It still doesn't start. My father spliced a new section of wire into the wire running out of the solenoid in place of the fusible link that went out. I think that's the trouble point right now. Is there something that commonly goes wrong that would kill the fusible link and keep the ignition switch from turning the starter?
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PurpleGryphon
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Report this Post06-09-2014 09:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PurpleGryphonSend a Private Message to PurpleGryphonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Re-did the new segment where the fusible link used to be, and got nothing. Found a blown power accessory fuse (20 amp) and replaced it, but that did nothing. My uncle suggested running a button (sort of like TONY_C's remote starter switch) into the dash and leaving it at that for now. I'm not sure what I think of that solution, though. But I might take it if it gets the car running, because I need it in driveable condition sooner rather than later.
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fierosound
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Report this Post06-10-2014 02:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What haven't you checked in the circuit? Gear selector switch maybe?
Did you try the starter in Neutral vs Park?



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[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 06-10-2014).]

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PurpleGryphon
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Report this Post06-10-2014 04:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PurpleGryphonSend a Private Message to PurpleGryphonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:

What haven't you checked in the circuit? Gear selector switch maybe?
Did you try the starter in Neutral vs Park?


I tried shifting it into neutral, and still got nothing.

Based on what I'm seeing, the wire coming out of the solenoid should be going to the ECM, though. Is that correct? What's with the wire running to the Gear Selector Switch? There is only one wire leaving my solenoid.

[This message has been edited by PurpleGryphon (edited 06-10-2014).]

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fierosound
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Report this Post06-11-2014 06:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by PurpleGryphon:

There is only one wire leaving my solenoid.



Is it purple or purple/white stripe?
I'd think the splice to ECM is probably in the harness, so it should be purple.

Pull the transmission connector and Jumper F to G.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 06-11-2014).]

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Csjag
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Report this Post06-11-2014 08:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CsjagClick Here to Email CsjagSend a Private Message to CsjagEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Try jumping the two wires from the neutral safety switch, I think they are close to where the shift cable enters the transmission. after you jump those wires see if it will turn over with the key
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