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HotRod Magazine Pontiac Performance Plus article on the IMSA whale tail spoiler by msweldon
Started on: 01-07-2021 12:11 PM
Replies: 13 (235 views)
Last post by: FIERO JOHN-WI on 01-13-2021 12:38 AM
msweldon
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Report this Post01-07-2021 12:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for msweldonClick Here to Email msweldonSend a Private Message to msweldonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Does anyone have a scanned image or pdf document covering the development of the IMSA whale tail spoiler?

I'd be willing to purchase the magazine from you at a reasonable price but I'm more interested in the information, if anything technical, about the development and design of the spoiler rather than any nostalgia surrounding the magazine.

-M
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hyperv6
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Report this Post01-07-2021 12:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Do you mean the special edition Pontiac Performance Plus? Not a regular Hot Rod issue?
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msweldon
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Report this Post01-07-2021 12:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for msweldonClick Here to Email msweldonSend a Private Message to msweldonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:

Do you mean the special edition Pontiac Performance Plus? Not a regular Hot Rod issue?


Yes, that's it...
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hyperv6
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Report this Post01-07-2021 01:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I should have it and will look it up. I can maker copies or scans of the spoiler section if I find it.

Not selling. I got mine right from Pontiac at an IMSA race.

Just a lot of stuff to dig through so give me some time.
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msweldon
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Report this Post01-07-2021 02:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for msweldonClick Here to Email msweldonSend a Private Message to msweldonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Is this it?

http://www.fieronews.net/fu...o-HotrodSD4guide.pdf

It has 'some' info on the rear aero but not much depth at all on the premise of how it works in relation to the air on top of the decklid.

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hyperv6
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Report this Post01-07-2021 03:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by msweldon:

Is this it?

http://www.fieronews.net/fu...o-HotrodSD4guide.pdf

It has 'some' info on the rear aero but not much depth at all on the premise of how it works in relation to the air on top of the decklid.


Yes and there was a second edition but the same spoiler.

There is not a lot of science to the spoiler. Aero was not as advanced then as today, They just tried to extend the spoiler out too catch more air and to gain leverage from it being farther out.

Not much air comes off the roof and it tends to flow over the car. Getting it back out out wider catches more air.

Is there something you are looking for specific?

The most critical part of the Fiero was the nose. The standard nose created lift and the air dam was needed like on the cover of this issue. The GT nose fixed that. They really needed the vent in the hood too but since it was not production like the deck scoop it was never permitted. Most of this aero really did not work much till over 100 MPH.

I adjust recalling this off the top of my mind as it has been years since I dug through this stuff.

I actually have the air dam like shown here on my car and it helped. I then did the Norman hood with a Ford GT like vent and it really helped the nose. Over 90 MPH the car got light in the front and if you went fast enough the head lights would rise to release air pressure.
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msweldon
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Report this Post01-07-2021 04:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for msweldonClick Here to Email msweldonSend a Private Message to msweldonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Very likely going to enter my 88GT into the Optima Ultimate Street Car Challenge... it's partially through a swap and have incorporated a hood vent. The Optima series have strict rules on aero with the whale tail and a front splitter being the only 'effective' solution that fits within their parameters.

[This message has been edited by msweldon (edited 01-07-2021).]

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hyperv6
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Report this Post01-07-2021 05:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by msweldon:

Very likely going to enter my 88GT into the Optima Ultimate Street Car Challenge... it's partially through a swap and have incorporated a hood vent. The Optima series have strict rules on aero with the whale tail and a front splitter being the only 'effective' solution that fits within their parameters.



What is missed on the whale tails is they often used a plexiglass gurney lip. The lip not only adds down force catching the air but makes it tunable. Might see if the rules permit this.

The whale tails need to be up at the back as this is where the air is coming off the roof. The gurney strip catches the air and helps load the spoiler. If you are making the tail extend it back more too for leverage. The short deck lit hurts.

I recall the winters I had to drive my car. The snow never blew off the wing in the center. It would melt off on the sides from the deck vent hear.

Not sure but I wonder of you scoop air under the car for cooling but let it out the top for more air on the spoiler would help?

The vents help even on a GT nose as it still lets the high pressure out. Makes a good bug deflector too.
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msweldon
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Report this Post01-07-2021 05:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for msweldonClick Here to Email msweldonSend a Private Message to msweldonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
yes... I can add a gurney lip or "wickerbill" but I'm limited to only 4" to 6" from the bottom of the windshield total height depending on class and the fiero flying butresses. I'll know more once the whale tail is received and test fit on how much if any of a gurney lip I 'can' add. If you go outside the aero rules they throw you into the unlimited / outlaw class.

You bring up a question I'm trying to answer by the investigating the whale tail development. Will venting scooped air from the quarter area/sides up and out the top of the decklid hurt, help, or have no effect on downforce? Especially since the whale tail prevents rear under body air from rolling back onto the decklid.

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Report this Post01-07-2021 07:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IMSA GTClick Here to Email IMSA GTSend a Private Message to IMSA GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Did you end up buying the spoiler that was for sale in the mall?
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msweldon
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Report this Post01-07-2021 10:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for msweldonClick Here to Email msweldonSend a Private Message to msweldonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by IMSA GT:

Did you end up buying the spoiler that was for sale in the mall?


The one from Doug, yes.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post01-07-2021 10:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by msweldon:

yes... I can add a gurney lip or "wickerbill" but I'm limited to only 4" to 6" from the bottom of the windshield total height depending on class and the fiero flying butresses. I'll know more once the whale tail is received and test fit on how much if any of a gurney lip I 'can' add. If you go outside the aero rules they throw you into the unlimited / outlaw class.

You bring up a question I'm trying to answer by the investigating the whale tail development. Will venting scooped air from the quarter area/sides up and out the top of the decklid hurt, help, or have no effect on downforce? Especially since the whale tail prevents rear under body air from rolling back onto the decklid.


As it is the car gathers air from under the car and puts much out the side vents on each side.

The PPG Fieros used a vent in the deck lid center to let air out that help keep the oil temps down due to the turbochargers. They used Chrysler Le Baron hood vent.

Based on my hood vent I know the pressure builds and the air goes straight up. I see moths at night hit the air and it blows them over the windshield.

I would thing a vent in the deck lid unless it is channeled to the tail it will just blow the air over top of it.

The side vent louvers Channel the air back not up. It would need something like that to keep the air down.

Even then would it be enough air?

It is easy to test the flow direction with yarn. But to test volume of flow takes expensive equipment.

Too bad you can’t use a deflector on the rear of the roof.
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Raydar
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Report this Post01-09-2021 11:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by msweldon:
...
You bring up a question I'm trying to answer by the investigating the whale tail development. Will venting scooped air from the quarter area/sides up and out the top of the decklid hurt, help, or have no effect on downforce? Especially since the whale tail prevents rear under body air from rolling back onto the decklid.


I know this doesn't directly answer your question, but I have had the concave IMSA scoops, essentially open to the engine compartment on the inside (the battery is moved to the front, so it's not blocking the airflow), as well as the same whaletail, on my car.
If I open the windows to just the right position, and pop the sunroof open at the back, I can feel a bit of heat coming in from above. It's not a great deal, but there is some. So I have to believe that there is some "back flow". (To be fair, I have also heard that the stock spoiler will cause air to flow forward, towards the rear window.) I currently have a different decklid/spoiler combo on the car, but I haven't tried that little experiment since then.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 01-09-2021).]

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FIERO JOHN-WI
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Report this Post01-13-2021 12:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIERO JOHN-WIClick Here to Email FIERO JOHN-WISend a Private Message to FIERO JOHN-WIEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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