I believe that it may have something to do with the PCM having programming issues. If you decide to do this swap be advised that it is a difficult one to do. That powertrain works with a BCM, and has AFM that in most cases requires a cam change for a swap. It is also a drive by wire engine that interfaces with traction control via wheel sensor inputs. If you run a stick there will be no provision to mount the starter as it is on the 4T65eHD auto bell housing The LS4 is a strong engine and looks nice but if you are just looking to go fast, forum member Darkhorizon ran 9.87 @ 147 mph 1/4 mile run is his turbocharged 3800. That would be an easier swap for you
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Dennis, Thank you for your reply! Good points to be reminded of. Working a deal on an 08 buick with the LS4. Definitely doing away with the DoD and was planning a cam change anyway.
05/06 is a 24X engine using the E40 ecm. 07+ is a 58X engine using the E67 ecm.
None have any issue turning off VATS, being decoupled from the BCM or ABS modules. Both can be tuned my most LS tuning shops. DBW is a total non-issue (I much prefer it to a cable throttle anymore). You can keep the stock cam & DoD lifters, install aftermarket DOD cams and keep the DoD lifters (which is what I did), or swap cams and remove all the DoD components - there is no requirement to swap cams, but there are multiple options if you want to run an aftermarket cam.
My first swap (with a manual transmission) was with the E67, ran it for 6.5 years and 55K miles with cruise and working AC... but as part of my current upgrades I am switching to the 24X/E40 setup.
The E67 is a faster/better/more common ecm than the E40 and is used with the GM crate motors. My only real issue with the E67 was it doesn't have a discrete AC input and DBW cruise will not work w/o the BCM. The E67 is super fast and with some idle air tuning will adjust for AC load as needed w/o the input (which is what I did). For cruise, I used an old school AR cruise module and a bracket so it would pull the pedal for cruise control.
When it came time to upgrade, I decided to switching to the E40 so it would be simpler/cleaner/lighter install (even if only 2 lbs lighter).
The 3 main reasons I am switching: I want a manual transmission calibration (E67 has these as well) AC Input - while my setup has worked for 6 years, I wanted the discrete AC input for automatic AC cutoff at WOT (not so much for AC, but so I can use the ECM relay signal for other fun stuff), which the E40 has. DBW cruise - I want the simplicity and less weight offered with the DWB cruise and the E40 does this w/o the BCM (it allows me to remove a pedal bracket, cable, and module).
So in summary, both will work, the 05/06 E40 will allow you better access to a couple of ecm features (discrete AC input and DBW cruise w/o the BCM).
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 06-12-2020).]
Guru, thank you for your reply! I have read many of your builds. I must say thank you very much for what you have put out there! Also, thank you for making the starter bracket and f40 shift cables available on ebay I'll be getting those in due time. My plan is to hopefully acquire this 08 buick lacross with an ls4. Want to mate it to an f40, get rid of DoD, not interested in the bcm functions, get rid of vats and like Dennis mentioned, get rid of the traction control. I have hp tuners and play with it on my 02 silverado. Had a 95 silverado (obd1.5 per say) that I did quite a bit of tuning on with Moates Ostrich back in the day. I dont know what ecm the buick comes with but hope hp tuners will strip it of the above mentioned junk.
Since you are going manual, you might want to also swap front timing covers and the the CTSV T56 calibration.
I haven't checked to see if it has been addressed since, but HP Tuners did not have the ability to disable all the 4t65 DTCs, but tuner cat did. If you start with a manual trans calibration you bypass this issue.
I really did try to resist but couldn't when I found another LS4 at my favorite local yard. From an '06 and someone took the coils/intake/t-body the previous day, but I added a N* t-body to the deal.
I may sell it or possibly use it, but the harness and ECU are still there for now. This is a 2nd LS4. The other is an '09 LeCrosse Super I got with trans, harness and ECU, but perhaps that is a more complicated harness to deal with?
For this Impala SS one I wasn't there to see the car placed on the yard, but the trans was gone when I found it along with missing intake, inj, tb, rails, inj wiring and cross over pipe. So it might be something I sell off or use if it's an easier to deal with swap than the '09.
I may sell it or possibly use it, but the harness and ECU are still there for now. This is a 2nd LS4. The other is an '09 LeCrosse Super I got with trans, harness and ECU, but perhaps that is a more complicated harness to deal with?
For this Impala SS one I wasn't there to see the car placed on the yard, but the trans was gone when I found it along with missing intake, inj, tb, rails, inj wiring and cross over pipe. So it might be something I sell off or use if it's an easier to deal with swap than the '09.
Value is still what I'm after.
I live in California so mixing and matching parts is not a good idea. But cutting stuff out makes life easier.
It'll probably cost me around $80-$90 for all that in the image. $50 without the trans module. We don't have to worry about swaps and mixing things here. It's wide open.
Also, have you got an idea how difficult is it to bench run the '09 LS4? It has a dropped AFM lifter to fix first. I'll keep a look out for a paddle shifter GXP.
It'll probably cost me around $80-$90 for all that in the image. $50 without the trans module. We don't have to worry about swaps and mixing things here. It's wide open.
Also, have you got an idea how difficult is it to bench run the '09 LS4? It has a dropped AFM lifter to fix first. I'll keep a look out for a paddle shifter GXP.
It should be very easy to run it outside of a car, IF you have all of the needed components. I test ran all of the engines that I swapped in.
05/06 is a 24X engine using the E40 ecm. 07+ is a 58X engine using the E67 ecm.
None have any issue turning off VATS, being decoupled from the BCM or ABS modules. Both can be tuned my most LS tuning shops. DBW is a total non-issue (I much prefer it to a cable throttle anymore). You can keep the stock cam & DoD lifters, install aftermarket DOD cams and keep the DoD lifters (which is what I did), or swap cams and remove all the DoD components - there is no requirement to swap cams, but there are multiple options if you want to run an aftermarket cam.
My first swap (with a manual transmission) was with the E67, ran it for 6.5 years and 55K miles with cruise and working AC... but as part of my current upgrades I am switching to the 24X/E40 setup.
The E67 is a faster/better/more common ecm than the E40 and is used with the GM crate motors. My only real issue with the E67 was it doesn't have a discrete AC input and DBW cruise will not work w/o the BCM. The E67 is super fast and with some idle air tuning will adjust for AC load as needed w/o the input (which is what I did). For cruise, I used an old school AR cruise module and a bracket so it would pull the pedal for cruise control.
When it came time to upgrade, I decided to switching to the E40 so it would be simpler/cleaner/lighter install (even if only 2 lbs lighter).
The 3 main reasons I am switching: I want a manual transmission calibration (E67 has these as well) AC Input - while my setup has worked for 6 years, I wanted the discrete AC input for automatic AC cutoff at WOT (not so much for AC, but so I can use the ECM relay signal for other fun stuff), which the E40 has. DBW cruise - I want the simplicity and less weight offered with the DWB cruise and the E40 does this w/o the BCM (it allows me to remove a pedal bracket, cable, and module).
So in summary, both will work, the 05/06 E40 will allow you better access to a couple of ecm features (discrete AC input and DBW cruise w/o the BCM).
if you want to run a carb and the new ones do well..u can run an msd 6014 with a trans control..ive done it on my street rod swaps..I think im first one to do it with a fiero. im taking my time-but its happening as we speak lol.! By the way anything in 12s is awesome and tapping on the 11s is supercharged coyote gt territory so your car runs well..u did good..congrats !
