People in the BMW community are swapping the automated manual SMG transmissions into E30's built in the '80's... the tech is being democratized.
So it looks like the VW DSG DG500 will be in the construction zone? The newer DSG has a dry clutch system that helps the transmission last longer. VW makes a dual clutch transmission that can handle 440tq. And it is about the size of the F40 6 speed.
Originally posted by Rickady88GT: So it looks like the VW DSG DG500 will be in the construction zone?
There's a trickle-down of tech knowledge, which I divide into these steps:
1. Tech is developed and understood by one OEM (or its supplier) 2. Tech is understood by direct competitor companies 3. Aftermarket is able to use the tech in a "black-box" manner without a deep understanding 4. Aftermarket is able to use and modify the factory tech for end-users' special needs 5. Aftermarket can design complete equivalent solutions
Bleeding-edge for me is when a technology is at step 1.
With "automated manuals", my perspective is that we are at step 2, in general.
From what Will is saying, it seems that in some particular applications, the trickle-down has progressed beyond step 2.
[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 11-29-2020).]
Both cars are now mass production mid engined American vehicles.
The C8 looks nothing at all like a McLaren to me. Now if someone knows nothing about it or the Acura you might believe one is the other. But they're different. In the 80s there were complaints that all supercars are wedge shaped and indistinguishable back then. The Fiero followed that formula.
There's a trickle-down of tech knowledge, which I divide into these steps:
1. Tech is developed and understood by one OEM (or its supplier) 2. Tech is understood by direct competitor companies 3. Aftermarket is able to use the tech in a "black-box" manner without a deep understanding 4. Aftermarket is able to use and modify the factory tech for end-users' special needs 5. Aftermarket can design complete equivalent solutions
Bleeding-edge for me is when a technology is at step 1.
With "automated manuals", my perspective is that we are at step 2, in general.
From what Will is saying, it seems that in some particular applications, the trickle-down has progressed beyond step 2.
I just read an article that said the dual clutch systems are loosing their appeal for the low budget cars. The supper cars will keep them, but the dual clutch system is a little rough around the edges for a commuter car. They are opting for the typical torque converter transmissions for smoothness.
People in North America like their slushboxes, so consumers expect their cars to creep forwards by themselves in traffic.
Trying to slip a clutch all the time to emulate a slushbox doesn't make much sense; might as well give the consumer what they want.
On a supercar I guess you can expect owners to take a small amount of effort to learn how to drive it.
In heavy trucks, drivers are mostly coming from standard transmissions, so an automatic that behaves "manual-style" is familiar and meets expectations. I rode in an automatic Kenworth (I think a model year 2017 or thereabouts), and if my eyes were closed, I'd swear that the truck was being driven by a perfect human driver. Clutch slip like we normally hear on takeoff, and the pause on gear changes.
I don't like automatics, but if one were forced upon me, I'd want it to be manual-like. My first impression of the Kenworth is that it would meet my expectations.
[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 11-29-2020).]
Last week a Lamborghini that was probably an Aventador (def not a Gallardo) pulled out in front of me and hoofed down the road and out of sight in traffic. What I heard was the trans shifting so fast it had to be a dual disk, so I looked it up. Nope, the Aventador has a single disc with lightning fast shifts.
The transmission, a seven-speed single-clutch automated manual, is built by Graziano Trasmissioni.[23][24] Despite being single-clutch, gear-shifts are accomplished in 50 milliseconds.
Last week a Lamborghini that was probably an Aventador (def not a Gallardo) pulled out in front of me and hoofed down the road and out of sight in traffic. What I heard was the trans shifting so fast it had to be a dual disk, so I looked it up. Nope, the Aventador has a single disc with lightning fast shifts.
The transmission, a seven-speed single-clutch automated manual, is built by Graziano Trasmissioni.[23][24] Despite being single-clutch, gear-shifts are accomplished in 50 milliseconds.
Lambo reorganized the transmissions so that sequential gears are on different shift collars. That means that the outgoing gear actuator can apply load to the shift collar of the outgoing gear, the incoming gear actuator can apply load to the incoming gear synchronizer and the clutch actuator can start to release the clutch ALL AT THE SAME TIME.
With a traditional manual that's been automated, the clutch has to stay released long enough to the actuator to travel from being fully engaged in outgoing gear, through synchronizer operation to be fully engaged in incoming gear... so there are sequential operations. With the Lambo system, it all happens at the same time. It's not quite as fast as a dual clutch system, but it's lighter and simpler.
Originally posted by Will: With a traditional manual that's been automated, the clutch has to stay released long enough to the actuator to travel from being fully engaged in outgoing gear, through synchronizer operation to be fully engaged in incoming gear... so there are sequential operations.
What takes a boatload of time in a normal synchronized gear change is pushing on the gear lever and waiting for synchronization to occur.
Besides the idea of paralleling tasks, there is also the idea of simply speeding up the longest sequential tasks.
High-performance cars could have migrated to H-pattern dogboxes when they outgrew (too much time wasted shifting) synchronized manual transmissions, but history shows us that's not what happened
High-performance cars could have migrated to H-pattern dogboxes when they outgrew (too much time wasted shifting) synchronized manual transmissions, but history shows us that's not what happened
High-performance cars could have migrated to H-pattern dogboxes when they outgrew (too much time wasted shifting) synchronized manual transmissions, but history shows us that's not what happened
Since they also have to be driven on the street, and dogboxes kind of suck to drive on the street, they kept synchronized gearboxes. However, dog boxes do lend themselves well to automation. Clutch engagement of the automated transmission is the primary factor for how smoothly it drives on the street, so an automated dogbox can hammer the shift, then soft-pedal the clutch without being unseemly when driving to the grocery store.
