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12 Cylinder non stretch longitudinal install discussion by engine man
Started on: 03-08-2020 07:29 AM
Replies: 36 (806 views)
Last post by: engine man on 04-28-2020 09:19 PM
engine man
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Report this Post03-08-2020 07:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hi everyone i just throwing out a idea for you all maybe it will get done by me or one of you it is to install the VW Phaeton 6.0L W12 engine in a fiero as it is 20.1 inches long just about a inch longer than the Audi 4.2 V8 I installed so it should fit the engine has 444 horsepower . the engine is basically 2 VR6 engines put together i know if i get around to doing it it will have the 5hp19 automatic that i would rebuild and do the mods that are needed to strengthen it as it needs a clutch drum upgrade as one of them breaks . I hope this enthoses one of you to do this swap and you beat me to the punch
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engine man
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Report this Post03-08-2020 09:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
well i have been doing some homework on this and i feel physically installing the engine is not really any harder than the 4.2 Audi but the problems start when doing the engine management as they are using 2 ecus from what i can tell they are treating it as 2 VR6 engines with a common crankshaft so it will have to be figured out how exactly to do that with stand alone ecu's but i am sure it can be done just need to figure it all out
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Report this Post03-09-2020 07:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You're a do-er, Mark. You get a lot more done than 97% of people wanting to do swaps.

 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

You know, the W12 is probably the same overall length. Hmmm.


W8 Passat? pfft. You already know how I feel about it since trying to persuade you to spend your money instead of mine.
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engine man
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Report this Post03-09-2020 11:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
yes i have the W8 i need to remove from the passat and get a car for that but i am not going to start any new projects until after i move back to FL i think i will be back in lakeland fl by next fall as i will have my house where i am finished up and sold
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Report this Post03-09-2020 05:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Does anyone know the weight of the W8 engine? Just curious about how much added weight there is....
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engine man
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Report this Post03-09-2020 06:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
the W8 is 190 KG or 419 pounds the W12 is 239 KG or 526 pounds
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post03-10-2020 08:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The questions that I have is what are you looking to achieve and why would you want a V12 engine? Even if you could fit it in, the engine management issues would be enormous.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
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87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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engine man
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Report this Post03-10-2020 08:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Dennis i like the challenge of it more than anything because if it is easy i get bored with it fast and it is not a V12 as that would be to long it is like 2 VR6 engines with a common crank so it is much more compact

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 03-10-2020).]

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Report this Post03-10-2020 09:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's not an extreme project, IMO. It's worthy. Stretched or not. Once upon a time fuel injected engines were out of the realm of swappers and DIYers. It's an electronically managed engine, not so much different than others.
There's only one other swap that comes to mind as mind as interesting and it's the Tesla. Specifically the Tesla, not just an electric powered Fiero like others have done.
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engine man
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Report this Post03-13-2020 05:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
yesterday i started up the little brother to the W12 as i moved the passat with the W8 engine and i am hoping to pull that out of the car in the next few weeks but that engine is a easy install as it is so short at 16 inches long for a 8 cylinder and i will use a stock ecu it is just a matter if i do stick or automatic transmission i think the car will be a automatic as i do not plan on keeping it and selling it and automatics sell better
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engine man
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Report this Post03-13-2020 06:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
ok i have decided to try and sell the W8 passat wagon i have to pay for a W12 engine i will need to get about $2000 for the passat so i need to do a bit of work to make it road worthy such as the exhaust and i will do that tomorrow
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Report this Post03-14-2020 02:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well here we go with things going up for sale to fund this project that i want to do i put the Jet Boat with 455 old for sale and worked on the W8 passat to make it road worthy so i can sell that and i will put the 6.0L Ly6 ls engine together and sell it it has a brand new set of rectangular port heads that should sell pretty quick
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Report this Post03-14-2020 04:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by engine man:

VW Phaeton 6.0L W12 engine


From what I understand, this is the same engine that's used in a Bentley. It's quite a mechanical marvel. Gear heads should enjoy this following video.

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Report this Post03-14-2020 06:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy,...
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engine man
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Report this Post03-14-2020 08:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
yes the same engine as the Bentley and Audi A8 with W12 the Bentley has twin turbos not sure but Bugatti has a W engine it might be the W16 but is made by VW / Audi group but first i need to get some stuff sold
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engine man
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Report this Post03-14-2020 09:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
the trans is going to be a 5 HP 19 that i will rebuild something i have not done for a long time and it was GM TH 400 i know one thing is to upgrade the D drum as i have read it is weak at were the snap ring is and i will increase line pressure by shimming the spring not sure how to make sifts fast and clean do they make a shift kit for it if so i will install that i will add paddle shifters to the steering wheel
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post03-16-2020 08:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
An aggressive project for sure. That is a very wide engine and when you add an adapter plate for the transmission it will probably be a tight fit in the engine compartment. If you get this swap to work, you deserve a prize!

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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engine man
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Report this Post03-16-2020 04:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
why would i need a adaptor plate it is a longitudinal install using a Audi / VW transmission and is a VW engine
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Report this Post03-17-2020 12:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ttt123Click Here to Email ttt123Send a Private Message to ttt123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is what wrenching for car enthusiast is all about. When I started the 3.8sc swap in into my Porsche 911.. got some kickback but at the end of the day... they are just cars and we should have all the fun we can with them

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Report this Post03-17-2020 04:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by engine man:

why would i need a adapter plate it is a longitudinal install using a Audi / VW transmission and is a VW engine


A Longitudinal install changes the equation. I've seen the BMW V12 in an extended Fiero with a Lamboghinni body and it fit well.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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engine man
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Report this Post03-17-2020 06:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
well if it is true and the government sends us all $1000 due to the coronavirus i will spend it on this project
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engine man
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Report this Post03-18-2020 09:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok i found this for the W12 as i was wondering about the degrees between each power stroke and from what i have read it is a 60 degree firing https://www.eskimo.com/~rif.../files/W_engines.pdf
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engine man
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Report this Post03-20-2020 12:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
well looks like the Olds 455 out of the jet boat might be sold for $1000 and i am sure the Passat W8 car will sell pretty fast so this project should have some funding soon and i have found a engine for $2300 all shipped
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engine man
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Report this Post03-21-2020 04:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok the jet boat engine sold so i am closer to buying the engine
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sourmash
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Report this Post03-23-2020 09:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That's pretty fast progress. Sure wish this swap was in my near future.
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engine man
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Report this Post03-24-2020 05:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
yes my boat engine sold fast now i need to sell the W8 passat but i need to register it so it can be test driven and that will give me money enough to buy the engine and some things for other projects

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 03-24-2020).]

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engine man
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Report this Post03-26-2020 04:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am looking at about 3 weeks or maybe less i will be getting the engine as i have this project going and my racing / flight simulator i am building also
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engine man
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Report this Post03-27-2020 09:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
well i got hit with NH doing a kinda stay at home for 5 weeks only essential businesses can be open fortunately for me automotive repair is one that can stay open but i am not sure whose car i will be repairing since they won't be driving them as they are to stay home and very little will be open for them to go to so no breakage so i do not plan to have much going on so i must not spend money as i might need as i might not have enough cash flow to pay the bills
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Report this Post04-14-2020 09:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
well i have been playing with the Passat W8 trying to get it ready to sell but have a tranny leak looks to be just a torque converter seal but it is a 12 hour repair so i might fix that the end of the week due to it is so slow in the shop then i need to address the right headlight not coming on as it is HID
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engine man
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Report this Post04-22-2020 08:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
things are going slow as this shutdown is hurting everyone but when things get back to normal then i should be able to get some money up to do this project so stay tuned
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Report this Post04-23-2020 05:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There will be ripples for a good while too. But some parts of the economy are hot, like the pawn shop/gun dealer in town who doesn't have enough parking for his clientele. There's no social distancing in that place.
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engine man
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Report this Post04-23-2020 05:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
yes it is sad people are having to sell off everything they own to pay the bills i have been there before and it sucks as you start to feel worthless and a failure as a person there will be mass depression if this goes on to long .
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Report this Post04-23-2020 10:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yeah, it hurts and I've been there. But this place has closed the pawn shop sales side and is wall to wall selling hand guns. I go for the pawn shop stuff and the place is packed constantly with arms buyers, though they're probably still making pawn loans even with that side closed. The traffic is all arms buyers. The other area pawn shops are all still open and traffic here hasn't gotten heavy yet. The handguns are being bought up but not as fast as the one store. Funny thing about the pawn shops is, there are often more employees in the stores than shoppers allowed in due to social distancing rules. They say this will not change when other businesses are allowed to open back up.
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Report this Post04-28-2020 07:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well looks like i will be doing the W8 engine from the passat i have as the transmission is bad so i am not going to fix the passat and sell it but i will take the engine out like first planed and put in a fiero that i will sell then move on to the W12 engine so if you are interested in the w8 i will show how well that fits then squeeze the W12 in
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Report this Post04-28-2020 08:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well then the jump from W8 to W12 probably won't have much of a learning curve so you'll be the far ahead.
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engine man
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Report this Post04-28-2020 09:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
yup it should help on learning what to do now i am going to keep a eye open for a good car that needs a engine i am thinking a se or coupe and i will put it together with a automatic as they sell better
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Report this Post04-28-2020 09:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

engine man

5248 posts
Member since Mar 2006
Dp

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 04-28-2020).]

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