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Anyone ever done a 4A-GZE swap on a Fiero? by stapler8
Started on: 10-24-2019 03:11 PM
Replies: 20 (362 views)
Last post by: OntarioKev on 10-31-2019 07:48 PM
stapler8
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Report this Post10-24-2019 03:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for stapler8Click Here to Email stapler8Send a Private Message to stapler8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Been looking at options for I4 swaps other than the quad 4. The 4A-GZE makes 168HP out of a 1.6 supercharged 4-pot, which is some serious get-up and go. Might blur the line between the Fiero and MR2 though.

They've got twincharger kits for it as well, you'd more than likely be pulling some serious 1/4 mile times.

What's everyone's thoughts? Doable? Frankly I'm not sure if the motor was mounted longitudinally or not in the MR2, so the swap might be impossible expensive and time-consuming for what it is.

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olejoedad
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Report this Post10-25-2019 08:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thats a lot of work for a couple hundred horsepower....
What kind of torque does the engine make?

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wftb
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Report this Post10-25-2019 08:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

You have to look at the cost involved too. Popular japanese engines are scarce and usually more money as a result. I paid 350.00 for a D16Z6 honda engine for my 91 civic wagon and it had to be rebuilt. For the same 350.00 I got a 2.2 ecotec with 40,000 Km on it that was like new. Both were from auto wreckers.

Almost anything can be made to work in a Fiero but it all depends on your fabricating skills and the kind of shop you have. And time available to do it.

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AsaBergman
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Report this Post10-25-2019 10:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AsaBergmanClick Here to Email AsaBergmanSend a Private Message to AsaBergmanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

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[This message has been edited by AsaBergman (edited 10-29-2019).]

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stapler8
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Report this Post10-25-2019 10:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for stapler8Click Here to Email stapler8Send a Private Message to stapler8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Looking for a high revving 4 cylinder that has decent power. Figured import engines were probably the way to go with that, but I don't know modern GM so well.

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wftb
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Report this Post10-26-2019 01:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

With a little bit of tuning(like raise the redline with HP tuners), even a stock Ecotec 2.2 will rev to 7000 rpm . The F23 5 speed that came with them fits stock Fiero manual transmission axles. There are kits available to mount the ecotec in a Fiero, but if you have the tools and skill you don't need a kit. You can get an LSJ supercharged 2.0 but they are old now so good luck finding a low miler at a decent price. The turbo ecotec 2.0 is a newer motor so more low milers are available and they have become GM's universal motor, they put them in everything. But the axles on the newer F35 transmissions that they come with do not fit Fiero hubs, so to do a swap with the turbo motor you need to get an older F35 from the supercharged Cobalt SS, an F23 that was hooked to a cavalier or sunfire 2.2 ecotec or an F40 with axles from a Cobalt SS LSJ. It is all doable but there are not a lot of us that have done it, mostly because the electronics scares people away. An older motor like the 3800 SC is just easier to do, engine management wise.

------------------
86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo
rear SLA suspension
QA1 coilovers on tube arms

[This message has been edited by wftb (edited 10-26-2019).]

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pHoOl
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Report this Post10-26-2019 03:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pHoOlClick Here to visit pHoOl's HomePageClick Here to Email pHoOlSend a Private Message to pHoOlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

wftb, on the electronics front... this may be an ignorant question but would running something like a Megasquirt make it easier, or less involved from a wiring perspective? I think the argument I've heard against that in the past was cost, though if I had to pay somebody for the swap, or to make the wiring at the very least, I suspect it could get into a matter of cost of shop time vs product purchase cost.

And like wftb said, they're starting to put the 2.0 turbo into everything, so hopefully there would be a decent supply of them with lower miles. Also, does anybody know if the newer 2.0 ecotecs share mounting locations and/or other dimensions with the older ones like the l61, LSJ, LNF? I believe they've gone to a can instead of cartridge oil filter, but that's about as far as I've looked.

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wftb
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Report this Post10-26-2019 06:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The wiring is easy if you don't mind having an instrument cluster from the donor car installed in your Fiero dashboard. I have the entire wiring harness from a 2004 cavalier in my car. The only parts of it that connects to the Fiero wiring is one wire that goes from the start key switch, one wire from a keyed spare on the Fiero fuse block and the cavalier connections to the battery. The Fiero ECM is not even in the car.

Some day I am going to strip another wiring harness out of a cav or sunfire because I missed my chance to have cruise and a few other things working.I stripped too much off the harness without thinking what I was throwing away.

Megasquirt works, a member here used to sell pre programmed MS systems with a wiring harness. I have one in the basement, never took it out of the box. Some day it will go in another project, non Fiero.

------------------
86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo
rear SLA suspension
QA1 coilovers on tube arms

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Raydar
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Report this Post10-27-2019 09:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Another option is the N/A 2.4 Ecotec. Made 179(?) HP, even without DI.
It's the same engine used in the Polaris Slingshot, so there is some aftermarket.

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Quad GT
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Report this Post10-28-2019 02:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Quad GTClick Here to Email Quad GTSend a Private Message to Quad GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Love the Quad 4 16 V
Have had one for over 15 years
Where about you at?

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longjonsilver
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Report this Post10-29-2019 03:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for longjonsilverClick Here to visit longjonsilver's HomePageClick Here to Email longjonsilverSend a Private Message to longjonsilverEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:
Another option is the N/A 2.4 Ecotec. Made 179(?) HP, even without DI.


i understand that this engine has good internals for supercharging or turbocharging. Anybody know if the GM superchargers will fit or adapt to this motor?

jon

------------------
Astronomy says we will find a coded signal from outer space. Then we'll KNOW that life exists there, for coded signals aren't by chance.

Biology says there are coded genetic signals in every cell, but we KNOW that no intelligence created life.

I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun!

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AsaBergman
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Report this Post10-29-2019 01:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AsaBergmanClick Here to Email AsaBergmanSend a Private Message to AsaBergmanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

.

[This message has been edited by AsaBergman (edited 10-29-2019).]

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longjonsilver
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Report this Post10-29-2019 07:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for longjonsilverClick Here to visit longjonsilver's HomePageClick Here to Email longjonsilverSend a Private Message to longjonsilverEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

From wikipedia:
 
quote
The GXP version of the Solstice debuted at the Los Angeles Auto Show in January 2006. It is powered by a new 2.0 Liter (121.9 cu in) I4 Ecotec engine equipped with a dual-scroll turbocharger. The engine's output is 260 hp and 260 ft⋅lbf.
An available dealer installed option was a modified computer tune and two new sensors that resulted in an increased output to 290 bhp and 340 lb⋅ft ,


Wow!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Solstice

------------------
Astronomy says we will find a coded signal from outer space. Then we'll KNOW that life exists there, for coded signals aren't by chance.

Biology says there are coded genetic signals in every cell, but we KNOW that no intelligence created life.

I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun!

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wftb
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Report this Post10-29-2019 08:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The LSJ supercharger fits all the early ecotecs because they share the same castings. There used to be a supercharger kit from the factory to fit the 2.2 ecotecs.the LSJ supercharger has nothing in common with the 3800 SC. Ecotec superchargers used to be readily available used because a lot of LSJ owners switched to turbos but I have not seen too many for sale lately.

[This message has been edited by wftb (edited 10-29-2019).]

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longjonsilver
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Report this Post10-30-2019 10:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for longjonsilverClick Here to visit longjonsilver's HomePageClick Here to Email longjonsilverSend a Private Message to longjonsilverEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

On car-part dot com superchargers for the 2006 Cobalt SS sell for $150-200 Canadian. Seems like an easy way to get more HP. i assume that tuning would be necessary with the supercharger?

jon

------------------
Astronomy says we will find a coded signal from outer space. Then we'll KNOW that life exists there, for coded signals aren't by chance.

Biology says there are coded genetic signals in every cell, but we KNOW that no intelligence created life.

I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun!

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wftb
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Report this Post10-30-2019 01:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The supercharger kit for the 2.2 eco came with a code that after you had it installed you took your car to a GM dealer and they flashed a new tune to your ECM. Bigger injectors were in the kit along with belts and whatever else you needed. The only option now for tuning is to get HP tuners, unless you can find someone with a flashed ECM and a matching BCM from a wrecked car.

------------------
86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo
rear SLA suspension
QA1 coilovers on tube arms

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OntarioKev
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Report this Post10-30-2019 04:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for OntarioKevSend a Private Message to OntarioKevEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

If you want to do the SC swap from an LSJ the easiest way is to also get the intake manifold with the SC, which is probably going to be the expensive part. The intercooler cores are built into the intake manifold, and from wreckers they may be damaged/leaking. Not sure if you can even get new laminovas anymore. You also need to get the accessory system setup to spin the blower and that may not be cheap to get everything you need, but it could be.

Depending on the power you want, a turbo swap is probably better for you. You can get the turbo/exhaust manifold off of an lnf cobalt and use that. then you just need to figure out intercooler and piping (air to water is likely the easiest in the back of a Fiero, but people have been creative in getting an air-air working.

Either way you need bigger injectors and tuning to get it to work. They make decent power for the Fiero. If you either build a 2.2 or 2.4 block, or start with a LSJ/LNF/whatever the current turbo blocks are), those engines can easily support 400whp in stock form.

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pHoOl
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Report this Post10-30-2019 06:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pHoOlClick Here to visit pHoOl's HomePageClick Here to Email pHoOlSend a Private Message to pHoOlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Check out ZZ Performance in Grand Rapids Michigan as well. I have no relationship with them, have never bought anything from them, but they seem to be big in the 3800 and Ecotec space.

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longjonsilver
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Report this Post10-31-2019 12:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for longjonsilverClick Here to visit longjonsilver's HomePageClick Here to Email longjonsilverSend a Private Message to longjonsilverEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by OntarioKev:

If you want to do the SC swap from an LSJ the easiest way is to also get the intake manifold with the SC, which is probably going to be the expensive part. The intercooler cores are built into the intake manifold, and from wreckers they may be damaged/leaking. Not sure if you can even get new laminovas anymore. You also need to get the accessory system setup to spin the blower and that may not be cheap to get everything you need, but it could be.


Intake manifolds from SC cars are on the order of $150C.

 
quote
Originally posted by OntarioKev:
Depending on the power you want, a turbo swap is probably better for you. You can get the turbo/exhaust manifold off of an lnf cobalt and use that. then you just need to figure out intercooler and piping (air to water is likely the easiest in the back of a Fiero, but people have been creative in getting an air-air working.


An LE5 engine with auto trans off a wrecker locally is about $500 (however i want a stick). So a turbo off a 2.0 Ecotec is sufficiently large to power the 2.4 block? i would just like somewhere north of 200HP at the wheel. i just want a fast street daily driver. Nothing that would hinder that, and i don't want a bunch of weight in the rear of the car. My car handles fine now with the duke back there and that is what stops me from doing the 3800 SC swap - handling. i get tired of other cars seeing the great looking Fiero body style and getting beat off the line at a redlight by some ugly souped up econobox or SUV.

i just checked out the 1/4 mile list here on PFF and i don't see a single Ecotec time there altho i see dukes in the 18 sec range. What gives guys?

jon

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wftb
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Report this Post10-31-2019 04:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I used to want to take my car drag racing but the nearest track is a 100 KM away. It is the same place as the road course I go too. I would rather go to the road course than the drag strip when I go down there. So I have no time slips to post but I used to play around with a GtechPro when I first got the original turbo running decently and I could consistantly run a 1/4 in the low 14's. The Gtech is fairly accurate but it is not like being at a strip.

I think if you are looking at about 200 HP I think you would be more comfortable with a 2.4 and the supercharger.Everything is more compact and less plumbing than a turbo. And you would not be stressing the engine as much, although the 2.4 is pretty strong if you get an early one. Just get an F23 from a 2.2 cavalier or sunbird and use the axles you have now. Grab the clutch and flywheel from the 2.2 and to swap from an automatic car to a manual you need to also change the water pump tubing from the 2.4 auto to the tubing that comes with the 2.2 manual car.

------------------
86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo
rear SLA suspension
QA1 coilovers on tube arms

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OntarioKev
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Report this Post10-31-2019 07:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for OntarioKevSend a Private Message to OntarioKevEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

If 200 whp is all you are looking for either the SC or the factory turbo can easily get you there on a 2.4, and it should handle it all day long around 200whp.

THe thing I mentioned about the intake manifold is yes you can get an intake manifold for the SC for a good price, the laminovas are quite often no good. And that is the expensive part if you have to replace it.

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