ARTICLE If the Corvette is about to jump the shark, this article will be remembered as an accurate prediction. Corporations seem to dither great products over the cliff, letting their internal bickering drag the product image around until the accountants panic, and the buyers give up and move on. If it happens to the Corvette, because GM ignores the lessons of the Fiero, should we laugh or cry?
------------------ 1988 Pontiac Fiero Formula, Yellow, original. (CJB #118) 1977 Pontiac Le Mans Can-Am W72, original, unrestored. 1977 Pontiac Grand LeMans 2003 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP L67/MN7 (Parts Car) 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP L67/MN7 (DD) 2005 Pontiac Grand Prix L26 (Wife's DD)
IMHO, Scott Evans (the article's author), nails it. I have a display board I show with my Formula that includes a chart of the annual sales. When people talk about why GM stopped making Fieros, I show them the annual sales chart & remind them that the accountants make the final decisions. It's a moot point anyway, lol, considering the number of Pontiacs being built now...
[This message has been edited by David Hambleton (edited 07-05-2019).]
The biggest advantage the new Vette has is there is no "800 lb gorilla in the Room"........It wasn't just that the accountants didn't want to spend money on "A sportscar"....It was "Hey, we already have one sportscar- why do we need another?"
I wanted to see a mid-engine Vette back in the early 70s......But now, I realize that the Vette should reference it's history- it's beating every other sportscar in the world as a FRONT-engine- Why does it "Have to go mid-engine to stay competitive"?
The C7 basically spit on Corvette rear styling history- it would kind of be like Porsche giving the new 911 slit headlights and a flat vertical rear window.....and then making it front engine.
Just my opinion....And in twenty years noone will be allowed to operate a vehicle on public roads........
Well what the story leaves out is the history of the Chevy and Corvette people using GM management to kill the Fiero.
Pontiac, GM and Chevy all played a roll here not just the Fires, not just the bean counters etc.
It is confirmed the Corvette people pointed out the issues on the Fiero, one being the under capacity at the Fiero plant as a way to kill the car for fear of losing sales to the Fiero.
What many fail to understand is. Or Vette sales were dropping and GM was looking to cut cost. The GT with more power at a lower price worried them. Note too the Corvette was canceled a couple years after the Fiero but the program manager ignored them and kept the C5 on schedule. It saved the car but cost him his future st GM.
Why was the Fiero plant under capacity? Because the GM 80 program was canceled. It was the FWD F body. It was to have fillmout capacity. Once canceled there was nothing to move into the plant.
Pontiac was desperate and needed to use this plant and to keep it financially stable over sold the Fiero the first few years. The two seat market has only so many buyers and the numbers they sold were way over what they should have done. You want to limit sports car sales to where you make money but you still have buyers. For the next year.
GM should have stepped in and worked things out between Chevy and Pontiac but they took Chevys side. As the Fiero team member told me Chevy sold more cars so Chevy got more say with GM.
So no matter how you spin this all parties created the perfect storm for the cars failure.
As for the new car I think yourself find it will drive circles around our car. The added technology and engineering learned over the last near 40 years will deliver a street car that will give you performance that would lap many race cars of the Fiero era.
The best thing to do is just enjoy the C8 and be proud that they finally will build a mid engine right with proper funding and support.
To be honest this may shine a more positive light and attention on our cars and may actually make it cool again in the public domain to buy a Fiero. This will drive up our values with increased interest. It should only benefit us.
Well what the story leaves out is the history of the Chevy and Corvette people using GM management to kill the Fiero.
Pontiac, GM and Chevy all played a roll here not just the Fires, not just the bean counters etc.
It is confirmed the Corvette people pointed out the issues on the Fiero, one being the under capacity at the Fiero plant as a way to kill the car for fear of losing sales to the Fiero.
What many fail to understand is. Or Vette sales were dropping and GM was looking to cut cost. The GT with more power at a lower price worried them. Note too the Corvette was canceled a couple years after the Fiero but the program manager ignored them and kept the C5 on schedule. It saved the car but cost him his future st GM.
Why was the Fiero plant under capacity? Because the GM 80 program was canceled. It was the FWD F body. It was to have fillmout capacity. Once canceled there was nothing to move into the plant.
Pontiac was desperate and needed to use this plant and to keep it financially stable over sold the Fiero the first few years. The two seat market has only so many buyers and the numbers they sold were way over what they should have done. You want to limit sports car sales to where you make money but you still have buyers. For the next year.
GM should have stepped in and worked things out between Chevy and Pontiac but they took Chevys side. As the Fiero team member told me Chevy sold more cars so Chevy got more say with GM.
So no matter how you spin this all parties created the perfect storm for the cars failure.
As for the new car I think yourself find it will drive circles around our car. The added technology and engineering learned over the last near 40 years will deliver a street car that will give you performance that would lap many race cars of the Fiero era.
The best thing to do is just enjoy the C8 and be proud that they finally will build a mid engine right with proper funding and support.
To be honest this may shine a more positive light and attention on our cars and may actually make it cool again in the public domain to buy a Fiero. This will drive up our values with increased interest. It should only benefit us.
The really sad thing is that the Vette was above the Fiero market.......Noone would cross-shop the two, with the Vette at $35,000 and the Fiero at $13,000.....The Vette would compete with the upper, "turbo" RX7 and 300ZX, while the Fiero V6 would be competitive with the base NA RX7 and 300ZX.
There is room for a high-end sports car and low-cost bargain sports car........
The really sad thing is that the Vette was above the Fiero market.......Noone would cross-shop the two, with the Vette at $35,000 and the Fiero at $13,000.....The Vette would compete with the upper, "turbo" RX7 and 300ZX, while the Fiero V6 would be competitive with the base NA RX7 and 300ZX.
There is room for a high-end sports car and low-cost bargain sports car........
The fear I feel was legit as the Vette was over $30k in 88 but the GT was around $18k. I expect the 1990 GT would have come in over $20k with about 230 hp and less weight and lower price. While it would not rob all the Vette sales the Vette could at that time not afford to lose any sales.
The Fiero was transforming to a true sports car that could have gone more up scale.
RX7 and 8, 240, 280, 300 All lived short lives, the MR2 died twice etc. few live 10 years or more.
The other issue is the Fiero may not have lived more than a few more years anyways. 2 seat Sports cars generally have short lives. The Miata and Corvettes are rare models that have survived. They survived with maintains demand while most MFGs fill demand for a model in 5-10 years. Even the Solstice and Sky sales were sinking fast by the time they were killed. Had Oontiac survived I believe the Solstice would have died anyways.
Building a low cost sports car is one of the toughest vehicles to build long term and to continue to build a business case for.
The Corvette has reached an Icon status few vehicles ever reach. It used to be a good performance car for the money but today it is now just a good performance car no matter the money. That is a key point as demand for performance is in decline today.
The bottom line is GM failed to manage their divisions back then and they were their own worth enemies. Imagine if GM had managed Chevy and Pontiac as complimentary divisons vs competing divisions and how they could have attracted the marketplace as one force vs two groups that ended up hurting each other as much or more than competitors.
One thing many forget is the mid engine Corvette idea is what lead to the Fiero mid engine.
The folks at the tech center proposed a V6 Corvette to Chevy and the Corvette team in the late 70’s. The Corvette people rejected the idea. But Hulki was wanting to lower the cowl and saw this proposal as a way to lower the cowl.
There were V8 versions of this and I have a couple drawings of the space frame Vette with a transverse 454. It has a very familiar look to what we got.
RHD? At last we can get a proper car not "converted" to RHD, which always has it's problems. I may buy a C8 if I can convince the wife. LoL. It would look sweet in the garage between my two LHD '86 GTs.
I liked the C6 Z06 because it was stone simple....and it had 427 cubes....It was a finger in the eye of all the buzz-bomb and turbo engined cars......And it could get 30 mpg on the highway! Later editions have been faster- but they are more complicated. Take a C6 Z06 and add carbon-fiber wheels and the latest tires, then tweak the engine a bit to get 600 hp (NA) and the car will probably lap right with a C7 Z06........(C6 Z06 weight= 3200, C7 Z06= 3600)
My first thought with making or modifying things is K.I.S.S........"Keep it simple, stupid!" Sadly, almost noone these days could SPELL that, let alone understand it.....(How many computers does a new car have? 3-5...maybe even TEN!) Now you just need one letter....."S"......."STUPID"!!!
I liked the C6 Z06 because it was stone simple....and it had 427 cubes....It was a finger in the eye of all the buzz-bomb and turbo engined cars......And it could get 30 mpg on the highway! Later editions have been faster- but they are more complicated. Take a C6 Z06 and add carbon-fiber wheels and the latest tires, then tweak the engine a bit to get 600 hp (NA) and the car will probably lap right with a C7 Z06........(C6 Z06 weight= 3200, C7 Z06= 3600)
My first thought with making or modifying things is K.I.S.S........"Keep it simple, stupid!" Sadly, almost noone these days could SPELL that, let alone understand it.....(How many computers does a new car have? 3-5...maybe even TEN!) Now you just need one letter....."S"......."STUPID"!!!
I have no problem with a more technonogically advenced car. I do have to wonder how GM gets anything done with bean counters putting their fingers into every aspect of building a car. It would be great if a car company would follow the example of the old Bell System when it comes to innovation. After WW2 Bell Labs was in it's glory days. They hired the best scientists and engineers available and paid them to do whatever they wanted . that freedom to innovate was key to the USA becoming the technological powerhouse it was back then.
Everyone always blames the bean counters. But really, if they were so all seeing and powerful, a car like the Corvette would not even get built. The market today is for SUV's and pickup trucks. The money spent developing the new Corvette would produce more return by using it to create an SUV that could compete with the Rav4, CRV and Ford Escape. All of these sell in much higher volume than the Corvette ever will.
My first thought with making or modifying things is K.I.S.S........"Keep it simple, stupid!" Sadly, almost noone these days could SPELL that, let alone understand it.....(How many computers does a new car have? 3-5...maybe even TEN!) Now you just need one letter....."S"......."STUPID"!!!
I couldn't agree more. BMW for example, makes things needlessly over complex. Example, removing the oil dipstick and instead using an electronic monitor. Cracking the window every time you open the door automatically. Every new piece of technology is just another potential point of failure.
