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4.6 Northstar Swap Project by copperhens
Started on: 10-09-2018 08:09 AM
Replies: 46 (900 views)
Last post by: copperhens on 12-06-2018 05:20 PM
copperhens
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Report this Post10-09-2018 08:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I picked up a project the other day. I hope I didn’t just get in over my head, but gotta start somewhere... I have always been interested in an engine swap, and this one was already started at least. Yes, I’ve heard about 3800sc are easier, why would you go for the Northstar?! Isn’t that the hardest and most expensive swap? We’ll figure this out.

Anyway, the car is a 1988 GT 5spd. I thought my California fiero was clean... this thing is soooo rust free you can lick it(ps, don’t lick it)! The Northstar is already in car. The coolant lines have been started. Looks like there is a new fan in the car. AC was deleted. The trunk has been chopped for the exhaust. Looks like wiring is almost done and it comes with a computer.

Now, the big issue is that the motor is seized and the clutch is shot. I found a new running motor for $300. Hopefully I’ll be able to pick that up and start there.

I’m on my phone so I’ll have to post pictures later.

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Gall757
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Report this Post10-12-2018 11:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

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Report this Post10-13-2018 06:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for LunaticClick Here to Email LunaticSend a Private Message to LunaticEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I have two Northstar engines here. One is a '95 and the other is a '96. I also have two LS1 PCM's, an F23, flywheel, and a few other odds and ends. You can have everything for $300 Canadian. I'm downsizing.

[This message has been edited by Lunatic (edited 10-29-2018).]

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copperhens
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Report this Post10-15-2018 08:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Lunatic:

I have two Northstar engines here. One is a '95 and the other is a '96. I also have two LS1 PCM's, an F23, flywheel, and a few other odds and ends. You can have everything for $300 Canadian. I'm downsizing.


PMing

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Report this Post10-18-2018 01:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for motoracer838Click Here to Email motoracer838Send a Private Message to motoracer838Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

You have a pm.

Joe

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RCR
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Report this Post10-18-2018 08:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RCRClick Here to Email RCRSend a Private Message to RCREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post



Bob

------------------

My Build

[This message has been edited by RCR (edited 10-18-2018).]

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copperhens
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Report this Post10-19-2018 03:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Alright, here she is. Looks pretty sad, not sure if its saying "fix me", or "put me put of my misery".


Here's the rear... I suppose you guys wanna see what is underneath now.


I honestly have not checked if its seized. Probably should, though I shouldn't get my hopes up.


As you can see, my seats are state-of-the-art racing seats.

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copperhens
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Report this Post10-19-2018 03:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

So, from it looks like in the car, is that the POs were almost done with wiring. The engine looks almost hooked up, but nothing inside is connected to the computer.


Also, I found this dash in the car. Looks kinda cool, but why put a dash in a fast car that only goes up to 100mph? Also, they also started converting the interior to gray instead of tan. Least they didn't get too far. There is also a switch they wired by the shifter. Don't know what that is for yet. They also deleted the AC.


The tires were holding air, until they weren't. Ugh.

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Report this Post10-20-2018 06:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for LunaticClick Here to Email LunaticSend a Private Message to LunaticEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

That swap looks crude and butchered. You've got your work cut out for you.

I have lots of fabrication, machining, wiring and CNC experience so a Northstar swap would be easy for me. If you were closer to me, I'd be willing to help you out with it.

Good luck with the project.

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Patrick
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Report this Post10-20-2018 04:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by copperhens:

I hope I didn’t just get in over my head...


Oh my... that looks like quite a challenge. I certainly admire your courage. Hopefully the people here who've done a swap of this sort can help steer you in the right direction(s). Good luck!

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copperhens
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Report this Post10-20-2018 07:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Lunatic:

That swap looks crude and butchered. You've got your work cut out for you.

I have lots of fabrication, machining, wiring and CNC experience so a Northstar swap would be easy for me. If you were closer to me, I'd be willing to help you out with it.

Good luck with the project.


Yeah that’s too bad you’re so far. Would be nice, because there are definitely fewer resources for this swap compared to a 3800.

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copperhens
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Report this Post10-20-2018 07:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Oh my... that looks like quite a challenge. I certainly admire your courage. Hopefully the people here who've done a swap of this sort can help steer you in the right direction(s). Good luck!


Thank you. Definitely looking challenging...

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RCR
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Report this Post10-25-2018 07:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RCRClick Here to Email RCRSend a Private Message to RCREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Not sure where you're located, but you're welcome to see what I did.

Bob

------------------

My Build

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copperhens
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Report this Post10-27-2018 06:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by RCR:

Not sure where you're located, but you're welcome to see what I did.

Bob



That's about an hour or so from me.

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Report this Post11-04-2018 04:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for LunaticClick Here to Email LunaticSend a Private Message to LunaticEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

It was nice meeting you and your family. You have a lot of work ahead of you but it sounds like you're up to the task. And now you have enough parts to get up and running.

Thanks for the smooth transaction and I (we) look forward to your progress and updates.

Maybe next year we'll make a road trip and come out and see you.

Shayne

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copperhens
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Report this Post11-04-2018 06:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Lunatic:

It was nice meeting you and your family. You have a lot of work ahead of you but it sounds like you're up to the task. And now you have enough parts to get up and running.

Thanks for the smooth transaction and I (we) look forward to your progress and updates.

Maybe next year we'll make a road trip and come out and see you.

Shayne


Thanks again for your flexibility. It was a pleasure to deal with you. These parts do bring me one step closer to at least getting this car going. I'm really excited to get home now, and start pulling the engine that's currently in the car. I've already started reading your build thread, and it's awesome how far that car has come.
Although, I'm wondering if I should at least do time serts and new gaskets on the engine I end up putting in to replace the seized one... guess I'm gonna keep pouring over various build threads, as this time change is killing me.

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Gall757
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Report this Post11-04-2018 10:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Looks like that white paint will come off pretty easily. I would do that just to make the project a little easier on the eyes. The headlights may be an easy fix too.....looks like the plastic rollers are crunchy. Where are you in Michigan?

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copperhens
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Report this Post11-04-2018 06:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

Looks like that white paint will come off pretty easily. I would do that just to make the project a little easier on the eyes. The headlights may be an easy fix too.....looks like the plastic rollers are crunchy. Where are you in Michigan?


Haha, some day I’ll make it more pleasing to look at. And I’m glad it has gen 2 headlight motors. I like fixing those much more.

I’m in Milford.

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copperhens
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Report this Post11-05-2018 07:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


Here are the new motors. For my future reference...
The engine on the left: ‘96; ran five years ago when the pulled(car had rusted brake lines). Has 298km, so about 185k miles.
The engine on the right: ‘95 from STS; tranny went, according to friend the engine had ran two years ago. Miles unknown. The coolant lines on this one are a bit more rusty though than the '96.

I just got some dollies from Harbor Freight today. Hopefully gonna get the engines off the trailer by this weekend.

[This message has been edited by copperhens (edited 11-05-2018).]

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copperhens
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Report this Post11-08-2018 06:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Yesterday, my dad and I got the motors off the trailer and the car into the garage.

I haven't yet bought a cherry picker, but at least my dad is handy with a skid steer.


The one and only picture I have of the three Fieros. We had to drag the red with the tractor.


We got it up on jack stands. We were going to start dropping the cradle, but the one lug nut on the driver side rear wheel would just not come off. It take an hour of heat and breaker bars to finally get it off.

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Report this Post11-08-2018 09:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KissMySSFieroClick Here to Email KissMySSFieroSend a Private Message to KissMySSFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

here's some history on the car. Looks like it was sold several years back as an unfinished project. The PO was my roommate for a while and he started the swap when he lived with me.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...0323-2-058686-2.html

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SSFiero@Aol.com

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KissMySSFiero
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Report this Post11-08-2018 09:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KissMySSFieroClick Here to Email KissMySSFieroSend a Private Message to KissMySSFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Btw, if the clutch is toast, that implies to me that it ran at one point.
Whee did you find the car?

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copperhens
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Report this Post11-09-2018 10:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by KissMySSFiero:

here's some history on the car. Looks like it was sold several years back as an unfinished project. The PO was my roommate for a while and he started the swap when he lived with me.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...0323-2-058686-2.html




Oh wow, that’s awesome! Thanks for sharing. This is my first fiero to have a Pennocks history. I’m excited to read the thread, and may ask you some questions down the road.

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copperhens
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Report this Post11-09-2018 10:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by KissMySSFiero:

Btw, if the clutch is toast, that implies to me that it ran at one point.
Whee did you find the car?


The guy I bought it from said he tried engaging it today and unstick the engine, and that’s when it broke. Not sure if that’s possible since it doesn’t run.

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Report this Post11-09-2018 03:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by copperhens:

The guy I bought it from said he tried engaging it today and unstick the engine...


"engaging"... or disengaging?

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Report this Post11-12-2018 09:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KissMySSFieroClick Here to Email KissMySSFieroSend a Private Message to KissMySSFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Unless someone changed it, that clutch should be a $500 Spec stage 3+ setup. Hopefully you can get it separated and find out it's still serviceable.

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copperhens
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Report this Post11-12-2018 11:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

"engaging"... or disengaging?


I’m not sure, I’ll have to ask.

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copperhens
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Report this Post11-12-2018 11:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by KissMySSFiero:

Unless someone changed it, that clutch should be a $500 Spec stage 3+ setup. Hopefully you can get it separated and find out it's still serviceable.

Wow, that would be nice if it is in decent shape still.

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copperhens
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Report this Post11-12-2018 09:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

There was an incident with the car earlier. My dad and I were both home early, so we figured we should work on dropping the cradle.

So, we had to jack it up high. Our garage is technically a pole barn, so we can't use any sort of chain from the ceiling.


Inched it down some more. Nothing was hooked up, and just had to push the harness out of the fire wall to get it unattached from car. We started to have some issues with clearance here. We had some 4x4s on the jacks to get the car up higher to clear engine. We were able to squeeze the engine out, but lowering the car would end up being the issue.


My dad and I had to try and lower the jacks at the same time from each side. Well, one let down a bit quick and the 4x4 slipped, and the car toppled. I am a) glad my dad and I figured this would happen and were out of the way, and b) glad the car toppled the way it did, as if it went the other way, it would have messed up my other Fiero. The red car does now have a cracked rear clip, side skirt, and the trunk is busted.



This was unrelated to the fall, and you can actually see it broken in pictures previous, but my brand new dolly broke. Harbor Freight took it back no issues.


Somebody beat the crap out of the rear suspension.


She lost some weight!


Now to start tearing into some engines, and figuring out which one I am going to rebuild...

[This message has been edited by copperhens (edited 11-12-2018).]

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Report this Post11-13-2018 12:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SpadesluckSend a Private Message to SpadesluckEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Glad no one was hurt. A cherry picker would have worked out with better results if you had one.

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Report this Post11-13-2018 06:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Spadesluck:

Glad no one was hurt. A cherry picker would have worked out with better results if you had one.


It’s on the list that’s for sure.

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Report this Post11-17-2018 11:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Sorry to hear about the incident but if everyone is OK thats good news. IMO, it difficult to do a swap without a hoist or lift. The N* swap has been done before but I don't believe in great numbers on Fieros. You can locate good engines but the N* is known for head gasket failures so I would recommend a compression or cylinder leakdown test before you install it. The good news here is that you have the trans, axles and mounts so its just a new clutch and connection of wiring, coolant and fuel lines that should get you going. Best of luck on the project.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
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" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Report this Post11-18-2018 04:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

Sorry to hear about the incident but if everyone is OK thats good news. IMO, it difficult to do a swap without a hoist or lift. The N* swap has been done before but I don't believe in great numbers on Fieros. You can locate good engines but the N* is known for head gasket failures so I would recommend a compression or cylinder leakdown test before you install it. The good news here is that you have the trans, axles and mounts so its just a new clutch and connection of wiring, coolant and fuel lines that should get you going. Best of luck on the project.



I just picked up a cherry picler the other day. Would've been nice last week though, so we could've held up the car.
I am going to get a Northstar head stud kit. I only need the studs though because a friend of ours has all the stuff to drill them in. It doesn't seem like a lot, but it also does seem like a lot haha.
Thank you.

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Report this Post11-18-2018 05:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Today has been very busy, and expensive lol. I bought a cherry picker Thursday, and an engine stand today. Harbor Freight has been having 20% off deals, which is nice. My dad and I built them both today. I was really close to buying a used cherry picker for $75, but it didn't fold. I'm pretty happy I got a new one that does fold now that I think about it.


With the new cherry picker, we got the seized off the cradle. The mounts were well done it seems, but the guy who built it used a bunch of different sized bolts. Anyway, the driveshafts were being stubborn so we had to disassemble the linkages.


The tranny was also a bit stubborn to get off. The PO said he broke the clutch when he tried to crank the engine. I had my fingers crossed, and the clutch seems to be in good shape, which would be great since it's apparently a spec 3.


I had a suspicion the transmissions I had were different... And they are. The one that came with the Northstars I got is the F23, the the rear. The one that came from the seized engine is in the front, is a MG2(thanks to Charlie for that info). If I decided to use the F23, which I probably should, I will have to alter the trans mounts.


Also, a good family friend of ours, Mr. Eric, offered that I bring the engine I am going to rebuild to his garage since it is heated. He lives a few minutes away only, so we loaded up the '96 Northstar and brought it over. I can't thank him enough.

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Report this Post11-21-2018 09:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I only worked on the '96 for an hour yesterday, and I'd like to think I had made some pretty good progress. I'll try to take some more pictures in the future, to show what I'm doing more. I really didn't document well last night...

I started with clearing off the spark plug wires, some vacuum lines, and some coolant lines. The rear valve cover was easy to remove.


It was also super dirty, and was among some of the parts I brought home so I could at least clean it.


The intake and manifold also came off easier than expected. Do have to remove the fuel rail first though that is mainly clipped on.


I took the starter out and brought it home. It's not very dirty, but I will clean it up anyway, and crack it open to check the insides too.


Not too shabby. I will have to compare this to my spare set of heads I have at home and see what is in better shape.


For having almost 200k miles, this engine is cleaner than I expected. I bought the bolts to get this thing up on the engine stand to continue disassembly. I hope to get it up there on Friday.

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Report this Post11-23-2018 06:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Today, Mr. Eric helped me out and we got the engine torn up.

Our first issue came with the engine stand. The bell-housing was too small and the one arm didn't fit. So, had to drill a new hole in the arm, and it worked out nice.


To get the crank bolt out, we had to flip the engine, so we could jam a piece through the windage tray the stop the engine from cranking. Also, had to buy a pulley puller for it, and modify it to fit of course.


There was more coolant that spilled out than oil when the engine was rotated.


Caught some pieces in here.


There sure are a bunch of pieces.


Now to take this backer off, so we could loosen then chains that were around the cams.


Mr. Eric said the chains and gears had very little wear on them.


The head bolts were tough to get out. Here's to breaker bars and busted knuckles.


This engine wasn't driven too hard. Lots of carbon build up.


The head gasket seemed to leak at this one piston. You can see the rust build up. The other ones were good though.


So much carbon.


It's getting barren.




The crank is clean too.






Apparently I don't have to send the bock out to be honed, because Mr. Eric has the tools to do it.



These guys are also in good shape. I'm going to clean them up and reuse them.


Now that the block is barren, I'm going to take it to the local "do it yourself" car wash, so I can clean all the grease and crap off. Once it's clean, we can finish honing and start reassembly.

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Phlebmaster
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Report this Post11-26-2018 09:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PhlebmasterClick Here to Email PhlebmasterSend a Private Message to PhlebmasterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Subscribed! I have a Northstar donor car (my daily driver now) and was curiously considering this option. Thank you for all of the pictures, I look forward to your progress. Nice work so far, keep up with those descriptions with your pictures so I can glean as much as possible.

Good on you for taking on the challenge!

------------------
Aaron H
1986 Fiero GT 2.8- A dream car of mine since childhood- Stock now, but looking for creative options to upgrade this wonderful car
2000 Caddy Deville- Has the Northstar- possible donor engine

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copperhens
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Report this Post11-27-2018 06:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Phlebmaster:

Subscribed! I have a Northstar donor car (my daily driver now) and was curiously considering this option. Thank you for all of the pictures, I look forward to your progress. Nice work so far, keep up with those descriptions with your pictures so I can glean as much as possible.

Good on you for taking on the challenge!


Thanks, man! What type of Cadillac are you driving?

A great Northstar build was done by Bloozberry as well on Pennocks, which I'd suggest checking out. I've referenced it several times.

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Report this Post11-27-2018 06:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

On Sunday, I took the block to the local car wash and power washed it. A guy stopped by and said you don't often see someone pull out an engine block from the back if their car(thank goodness aluminum is light). I told him about the engine and how it's going into a Fiero, and he told me his neighbor keeps a Fiero in a heated garage. More Fieros popping up in my town(there has been a half dozen in past year)! Anyway, even after a power wash, there was still a lot of grime on it , so took it back to Mr. Eric's garage to do some more cleaning.


I ran up to Harbor Freight and got some fine brushes for a dremel, which got pretty beat up, but did their job. Carb cleaner and purple power helped too. I don't think I'll polish it... It looks pretty good just being wire brushed and clean!


My dad was standing around, so I had him work on the water pump lol.


My gaskets came today. I got them from partsology.com for $154.42, which included free overnight shipping. I ordered them Friday though, and the holiday messed that up. Either way, still need my piston rings to come before I can do much to assemble the engine. Also waiting on the head studs, and the oil distribution manifold.

[This message has been edited by copperhens (edited 11-27-2018).]

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Report this Post11-27-2018 07:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PhlebmasterClick Here to Email PhlebmasterSend a Private Message to PhlebmasterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by copperhens:

Thanks, man! What type of Cadillac are you driving?

A great Northstar build was done by Bloozberry as well on Pennocks, which I'd suggest checking out. I've referenced it several times.


It’s a 2000 Deville. Runs great with lowish miles for the year ... 130,000. That engine is a rocket in the big car and it would be amazing in the light GT.

Thanks for the tips on more swap information. Looking forward to seeing your version.

------------------
Aaron H
1986 Fiero GT 2.8- A dream car of mine since childhood- Stock now, but looking for creative options to upgrade this wonderful car
2000 Caddy Deville- Has the Northstar- possible donor engine

[This message has been edited by Phlebmaster (edited 11-27-2018).]

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