Pennock's Fiero Forum
  General Fiero Chat
  Red 88 GT LS4 / F40 Build

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


next newest topic | next oldest topic
Red 88 GT LS4 / F40 Build by GPickardt
Started on: 06-07-2018 09:18 PM
Replies: 30 (1739 views)
Last post by: GPickardt on 10-08-2018 03:04 PM
GPickardt
Member
Posts: 76
From: Charlotte Hall, Md
Registered: Feb 2011


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post06-07-2018 09:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GPickardtClick Here to Email GPickardtSend a Private Message to GPickardtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I started a build thread in the link below, but the title didn't really give the proper information. I am going from the reverse perspective since this is already built, not quite finished, but it is running and driving. I will recap on a couple of things, mainly the build list, then start from the engine and work though the build process from the beginning including lessons learned, points of contact, and as complete of a list that I can provide.

See below for some of the initial details.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/098278.html



I will kick this off with a build list to start the new thread.

2007 LS4 Engine
Engine Package / LS2 Intake package w MAF /
LS7 manifolds / F40" Fakhri
LS3 Throttle Body gold Craigslist SD 100
213-1694 ACDelco O2 Sensors Amazon 102.12
98201 -8AN female connector Amazon 21.16
644123 -6AN male connector Amazon 27.18
Braided Fuel Hose Amazon 44.83
LS3 Camshaft Ebay 99.95
12633906 LS2/LS3 Timing Cover pkg Hawks Motorsports 89.95
3/8 stainless LS7 manifold Tab Zone Chassis Comp 152
12577660 / 24507976 Dipstick / Tube GM Parts Direct 25.77
HAR-1063 Stand alone 58X LS2 / T56
w/ LS3 throttle pedal (DBW)" PSI Conversions 569
Wiring Harness Mod / Battery
relocation cables / Dist block" Joe Sokol (Fiero King) 318.75
Brackets, Starter Eidolonic 180
7121 E38 ECM Tuning Sinister Performance 120
Valley Cover / Gen 4 Katech
OPSU adapter Eidolonic 220
LS7 Lifters / Trays Eidolonic 120

F40 6 speed manual transmission
Transmission Fakhri (package deal)
SF963-F40 / SCL S4aF40 "
Flywheel / Stage 3 clutch
Long flywheel bolts included" SPEC 902
SFD963-F40 / N1776-390 "Clutch disc
Throwout bearing / spacer" SPEC (corrected)
Axles West Coast Fiero 700
Mount / bearing carrier West Coast Fiero 350
Clutch Master Cylinder Rodney Dickman 65.95
F40 Shifter bracket Fieroguru Performance 95
F40 reverse lockout Fieroguru Performance 45
F40 cables Fieroguru Performance 230
F40 clutch line adapter Fieroguru Performance 45
Starter bracket Fieroguru Performance 95

1988 Engine Cradle
88 cradle w/ suspension Pick a part San Diego 200
Rear wheel bearings Advance Auto 130
Rear suspension bushings Rodney Dickman 149
Knuckle Long Bolts Rodney Dickman 8.89
Rear Knuckle Girdle Kit Rodney Dickman 59.95
EBC-DP2325 Green Stuff Brake Pads Summit 177.36
RUS-692110 Russell SS Brake Lines Summit 99.97
TFF-2232NB 11in Brake Booster Summit 123.99
YH141897 / YH141898 12 Inch
Corvette Rotors (15 lbs) Carquest 279.96

Coolant System
Water fill neck West Coast Fiero 275
Champion Radiator Fiero Thomas 175
Coolant Hose Autozone 16.95
Coolant Hose Autozone 14.99
Heater Hose (by the foot) Advance Auto 18.45

Miscellaneous
Rear deck lid strut kit Rodney Dickman 112
Audew Battery Connectors Amazon 14.99
C6 Exhaust Tips zmcdonal 135
CAN-BUS OBDII Kit Guages Speedhut 643
Front Ball Joints Rodney Dickman 126
33737 Wix Fuel Filter Amazon 41.85

I am sure there are other little things, besides the dual exhaust system, but I will try to cover it in those build areas.

[This message has been edited by GPickardt (edited 06-07-2018).]

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
motoracer838
Member
Posts: 3751
From: Edgewater Co. USofA
Registered: Jan 2006


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 83
Rate this member

Report this Post06-07-2018 09:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for motoracer838Click Here to Email motoracer838Send a Private Message to motoracer838Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nicely detailed list.

Joe
IP: Logged
GPickardt
Member
Posts: 76
From: Charlotte Hall, Md
Registered: Feb 2011


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post06-09-2018 09:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GPickardtClick Here to Email GPickardtSend a Private Message to GPickardtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This swap obviously starts with the engine. We brought an earlier model with lower miles with us from California, but ended up finding other parts, the main one being a PSI wiring harness that came with connectors to support 58X timing through an E38 ECM. ECM connectors are completely different for other versions, so we ended up sticking with the higher mileage engine for that reason alone. You can convert the timing wheel from 24 to 58, but didn't want to pull an otherwise very clean engine apart. I will use that one for my second swap.

Our first step was to do the DOD delete. This requires a new valley cover, at least (4) lifters, pushrods, and trays (LS7 type). I found a member on the forum that was doing a swap on a MR2 and had gone another direction. The valley cover was an LS6 style and he had the OPSU mount machined, and bought a Katech angled OPSU adapter for the LS2 intake. I also capped the vent port as I didn't need the additional outlet for my build. For my second build, I will use a plain style valley cover and purchase Fieroguru's distribution block that runs off of the oil filter adapter on the engine block.





Got everything built back up, and learned I needed an LS2/LS3 style Front timing cover so I pulled everything back apart. As part of the cam install, I had already installed the new timing chain set and was able to find a single bolt LS3 cam even though I had purchased a 3 bolt timing set from Brian Tooley racing. I will have it for the second build if needed. For the timing cover, depending on the belt routing you end up with, this dumps out in the middle of the cover just above the balancer pulley so you will need to plan for that. You will see the LS2/3 setup in later photos







Next we move on to the transmission. Same issue as everyone else, we have to cut the hole for the starter bracket. 2 things - start small once you ge the bracket to mark the area, you can always go larger, and get Fierogurus new bracket, it works well with no additional mods. I did incorporate the WCF mount on this bracket by welding the lower portion to the Fieroguru starter bracket.



I called and found that SPEC had a flywheel and clutch setup for the conversion. If you go to their web site you will find the LS4/F40 under their conversion options. As you will read more about later, this is the first setup from SPEC, but was nice and came with everything including longer flywheel bolts. We went with the Stage 3, 6 puck setup and even though it works well, it does take some getting use to for normal driving conditions. This part of the build probably cost me the most in terms of time and money and as you will see later, took the most work to fix all of the issues.









Next step was to measure and check the spline engagement. I measured the distance from a flat surface to record how much engagement there would be, but you can get a better idea using an o-ring slid over the input shaft and bolt the assembly together to see how much shaft engagement you have.















[This message has been edited by GPickardt (edited 06-09-2018).]

IP: Logged
GPickardt
Member
Posts: 76
From: Charlotte Hall, Md
Registered: Feb 2011


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post06-09-2018 12:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GPickardtClick Here to Email GPickardtSend a Private Message to GPickardtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Besides the mount for the starter and cradle, the Fieroguru cable bracket and clutch line adapter were purchased for this build. Since this trans was already setup for a Fiero install, it already had the line adapter with bleeder already installed and I ended up reusing it on the final assembly.



With the engine and trans now together, I reached out for some help with the wiring harness and got in touch with Joe Sokol (Fiero King) for the wiring harness mods. Joe ended up modifying my PSI harness to work with the Fiero connections, built battery re-location cable set that included a battery power block out of a Caddy for quick dis-connect when removing the cradle, and modified the VSS, starter, and Alt connectors for my specific application.













The finished product is great quality, but because I started with a generic stand-alone out of the box harness, it is not a clean as I would have preferred. Looks and works great, but I will likely pull the second harness apart and re-wire the complete engine myself for the next build now that I understand a lot better what is needed.







[This message has been edited by GPickardt (edited 06-09-2018).]

IP: Logged
KissMySSFiero
Member
Posts: 5498
From: Tarpon Springs, FL USA
Registered: Nov 2000


Feedback score:    (18)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 111
Rate this member

Report this Post06-09-2018 04:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KissMySSFieroClick Here to Email KissMySSFieroSend a Private Message to KissMySSFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Can't wait to see more.
What did you end up doing for the accessories up front? Did you keep the AC?

------------------
SSFiero@Aol.com

IP: Logged
GPickardt
Member
Posts: 76
From: Charlotte Hall, Md
Registered: Feb 2011


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post06-09-2018 05:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GPickardtClick Here to Email GPickardtSend a Private Message to GPickardtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by KissMySSFiero:

Can't wait to see more.
What did you end up doing for the accessories up front? Did you keep the AC?



I will post photos, but no, I did a top mount alt and used a belt tensioner where the ac comp was. Plan is to put it back in later if I can get a tune that will support running ac.
IP: Logged
GPickardt
Member
Posts: 76
From: Charlotte Hall, Md
Registered: Feb 2011


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post06-09-2018 05:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GPickardtClick Here to Email GPickardtSend a Private Message to GPickardtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Before exhaust, but coolant system is fully functional at this point. Still needed to do some additional bleeding.



Yes, it is vertical, we know. Future ones will be corrected.

Gary

[This message has been edited by GPickardt (edited 06-11-2018).]

IP: Logged
Patrick
Member
Posts: 30943
From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Registered: Apr 99


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 445
Rate this member

Report this Post06-09-2018 05:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by GPickardt:

Yes, it is vertical, we know. Future ones will be corrected.


In the meantime, fix your link. (End bracket is missing.)
IP: Logged
GPickardt
Member
Posts: 76
From: Charlotte Hall, Md
Registered: Feb 2011


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post06-16-2018 09:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GPickardtClick Here to Email GPickardtSend a Private Message to GPickardtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Before we moved to Maryland from California, I had built the engine and trans brackets with some help from a friend. When I bought some of the parts from various PFF members, one of the things I had acquired was a trans/starter mount from WCF. Although it would have worked as it was, I preferred Fierogurus mount, and as I mentioned previously, I modified the WCF mount and welded the new starter bracket to the integrated starter/trans mount. It bolts directly on where the stock mount location was. I called and spoke with Chris at WCF, and he was extremely helpful. He did tell me up front that they were very busy and that if I needed parts made quicker, I might want to explore other options. Long story short, I went with WCF and had them make a rear engine mount with an integrated bearing carrier, a water fill neck, and axles. I used the dimensions for engine placement from Fierogurus build thread for I think the auto or build #2 and I can tell you that all of my measurements came within 1/8th of his. This was very helpful to do a single install test fit. In the end, I made no changes to the setup and outside of removing the engine for other reasons, it fit well the first go.





























One of the other things I didn't do, but wish I had done, was to invest in getting the cradle powder coated. I used the rustoleum professional series paint in the large silver can that you can get from Lowes, or any parts store.

Another note: I ended up modifying the WCF engine mount/bearing carrier to add the mount I had made with a poly bushing instead of the solid mount WCF provided. I also modified their mount for additional clearance on the LS7 manifold. You can see I had to remove a stud in one of the photos, and trim the mount down to clearance the collector plate for the exhaust build up. I will show you photos later of how it turned out with the exhaust bolted up.

[This message has been edited by GPickardt (edited 06-16-2018).]

IP: Logged
GPickardt
Member
Posts: 76
From: Charlotte Hall, Md
Registered: Feb 2011


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post06-16-2018 10:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GPickardtClick Here to Email GPickardtSend a Private Message to GPickardtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Double post.

[This message has been edited by GPickardt (edited 06-16-2018).]

IP: Logged
GPickardt
Member
Posts: 76
From: Charlotte Hall, Md
Registered: Feb 2011


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post07-01-2018 08:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GPickardtClick Here to Email GPickardtSend a Private Message to GPickardtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Back to posting, been working on some of the drivability issues and getting the rest of the interior put back in.


So now that I had everything up to this point, it was time to put it all on the cradle. The next series of pictures show us building the engine cradle up so we can pull the original 2.8 and just swap out the cradles. That was the nice thing about having the spare cradle and just building the new installation as an assembly.


Actually, before we put the engine on the cradle, I built a top alternator mount and worked out the belt routing. Photos below are of us working on that portion before installing the engine and trans on cradle.

























One of the other things we had to intall was the steam port dump on the water pump housing.







Now we are ready to install on the cradle.









More later. Next, brakes and suspension.

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
GPickardt
Member
Posts: 76
From: Charlotte Hall, Md
Registered: Feb 2011


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post07-01-2018 09:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GPickardtClick Here to Email GPickardtSend a Private Message to GPickardtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Test Drive


IP: Logged
motoracer838
Member
Posts: 3751
From: Edgewater Co. USofA
Registered: Jan 2006


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 83
Rate this member

Report this Post07-01-2018 10:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for motoracer838Click Here to Email motoracer838Send a Private Message to motoracer838Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


Joe
IP: Logged
cam-a-lot
Member
Posts: 1787
From: Barrie- Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 95
Rate this member

Report this Post07-01-2018 11:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cam-a-lotSend a Private Message to cam-a-lotEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sounds and looks great! Nice build
IP: Logged
GPickardt
Member
Posts: 76
From: Charlotte Hall, Md
Registered: Feb 2011


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post08-04-2018 09:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GPickardtClick Here to Email GPickardtSend a Private Message to GPickardtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Duplicate Post

[This message has been edited by GPickardt (edited 08-04-2018).]

IP: Logged
GPickardt
Member
Posts: 76
From: Charlotte Hall, Md
Registered: Feb 2011


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post08-04-2018 09:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GPickardtClick Here to Email GPickardtSend a Private Message to GPickardtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

GPickardt

76 posts
Member since Feb 2011
Been a while since last build post but made a few changes. Clutch is definitely starting to hold better so I think it may actually get to stay in. For how long, I guess we will see. I am still hoping that I can reevaluate the upper mount location for the alternator later to support installing ac compressor install back to the stock location.

Back to the build though. Posting more photos of the cradle, brake upgrade to 12 corvette brake rotors with stock 88 calipers, stainless steel brake lines, and added a bigger brake booster using the old bracket from OEM booster and brake pedal adapter from Rodney Dickman. Summit Racing booster part number listed in the beginning of the build. I have to say, we have had numerous discussions between me and my sons, and other Fiero builders / owners and I have to say that this setup is very effective. Especially for the cost. The CARQUEST brake rotors are 15 lbs, so not a lot more weight than the stock, and with the addition of the Green Stuff brake pads, there is a significant difference in braking performance.









I will post more later. Next is pulling the stock 2.8, cleaning up the engine bay, and getting ready to roll in the LS4.


IP: Logged
GPickardt
Member
Posts: 76
From: Charlotte Hall, Md
Registered: Feb 2011


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post08-04-2018 10:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GPickardtClick Here to Email GPickardtSend a Private Message to GPickardtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Another test drive video (Yes, it is vertical). Clutch seems to be settling in, more hopeful now that it will actually retain clamping force and not slip like it did initially. Changing alternator to low mount, will post later, then off to the DYNO.



IP: Logged
GPickardt
Member
Posts: 76
From: Charlotte Hall, Md
Registered: Feb 2011


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post08-26-2018 07:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GPickardtClick Here to Email GPickardtSend a Private Message to GPickardtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Been driving the car a lot and running in to a lot of Fiero fans here in SOMD. Car is doing well and as soon as I get the car tuned, I can finish putting the interior back together.

Here is some more of the build from where I left off. Car was running all the way until the day we were ready to start the swap. So, here is out with the old...










Now that we had everything out, I wanted to remove all of the excess clips and brackets and old heat matting.











So we got the engine bay cleaned up and painted, fuel line in with wix fuel filter that I will show you from a bottom shot what it looks like a little later, and relocated the evap canister where the battery previously was. We also ran the front vacuum line for the brake booster and had it on the rear frame rail to trim and install once the engine was in. I swapped out the high flow fuel pump, and the tank looked clean. I did leave everything else stock except the fuel pump. May go back later and upgrade the fuel sending unit for better accuracy.

I we have an old house with a small garage, so we have done all of our work outside, sometimes under an easy-up. But there is gravel between the garage and driveway where the car is parked, so we had to put he engine on wheels and roll it to the car.







And here she sits, eagerly awaiting the new power plant.



IP: Logged
GPickardt
Member
Posts: 76
From: Charlotte Hall, Md
Registered: Feb 2011


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-04-2018 11:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GPickardtClick Here to Email GPickardtSend a Private Message to GPickardtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Time to install the engine. I didn't take photos of the fuel pump replacement while we had the engine out, but there are a ton of PFF posts for info if you should need it. We pulled the brakes, and upgraded the rotors to 12" corvette rotors using the bracket kit from another PFF member (refer to parts list in beginning) and the larger brake booster listed on Rodney Dickman when you also buy the booster adapter. We got ours from Summit Racing and along with the Green Stuff pads, stainless steel braided brake lines, this braking system is light weight using stock 88 calipers, and really works well. I can't see spending a ton of money on upgraded brake systems unless you have a purpose built race car. My only complaint would be the amount of brake dust from the Green Stuff pads, I may try another version next go around.











After repeated tries to get the front cradle bolts in, then lower the car to get the back of the cradle up, we kept running in to interference issues. FINALLY, after some careful consideration, we took the front cradle bolts out and kept the cradle flat on the cherry picker and lowered the whole car down on the cradle. MUCH BETTER!!!















Brake upgrade photos









Finally Installed, now to hook up all the systems and bleed everything.






IP: Logged
motoracer838
Member
Posts: 3751
From: Edgewater Co. USofA
Registered: Jan 2006


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 83
Rate this member

Report this Post09-04-2018 03:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for motoracer838Click Here to Email motoracer838Send a Private Message to motoracer838Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I just realized you did the hard work outside, I've done enough of that in the last couple of years to last me a lifetime (shop's too full of crap and now I'm moving )... I feel your pain. Have you got it tuned yet?

Joe
IP: Logged
GPickardt
Member
Posts: 76
From: Charlotte Hall, Md
Registered: Feb 2011


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-04-2018 05:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GPickardtClick Here to Email GPickardtSend a Private Message to GPickardtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Its in the shop now, Tempest Racing in Waldorf Md. I was having issues with it going into limp mode, verified today that it was the gold blade throttle body causing it. I took him another silver blade and we will see how much we can get out of it hp wise. As long as it runs well, I don't really have a hp goal, it is quick as it is. We are saving to build a shop in the next couple of years, but yes, it was fun doing all of the hard work outside. I did borrow a lift once everything was installed to finish up some things on the bottom. Been watching your build as well, curious to see how you like the trans. I am actually happy with the F40, I had doubts in the beginning, but it works well and feels great. I picked up another F40 and we are in work on the 2nd son's swap now. I'll do the same and post those pics later. Just excited to get the first one back from tuning, then put the interior together and start on the paint.

Gary
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
GPickardt
Member
Posts: 76
From: Charlotte Hall, Md
Registered: Feb 2011


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-08-2018 06:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GPickardtClick Here to Email GPickardtSend a Private Message to GPickardtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
All I can say is wow! Mad props to Joe at Tempest Racing in Waldorf Md. This is a whole new car. I thought it was pretty fast and sounded good on the base tune, but Joe did an excellent job on the tune. It idles smooth and runs great, and when you open it up, it really comes alive and the exhaust roars. I will have one of my sons drive and take a video, but acceleration is incredible. I have driven some fast cars, but this is hard to explain how hard this thing accelerates.

More to come later this weekend...
IP: Logged
GPickardt
Member
Posts: 76
From: Charlotte Hall, Md
Registered: Feb 2011


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-16-2018 04:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GPickardtClick Here to Email GPickardtSend a Private Message to GPickardtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So from here it gets interesting.

Thanks to FIeroGuru, I was able to verify everything through measurements prior to doing just a single install. After the install, we hooked up all of the coolant tubes, ran the electrical connectors through the stock locations and resealed the bulkhead grommets, relocated the battery to the front and ran the new cables, bled the brakes, everything seemed to be going well. Almost too well.









After getting the clutch line installed, we installed a new master cylinder from Rodney Dickman, along with the adjustable banjo, and started bleeding the clutch. My son was in the car working the pedal commands while I bled and filled fluid in the master cylinder. It started feeling pretty normal, so I had my son get out so I could feel the pressure and see also what adjustments may be needed on the banjo. Then I heard a pop, more like felt it in the clutch, and my son said, "dad, there is fluid leaking from the transmission". That is where we started the process of pulling the engine.

As soon as it happened, I knew what it was, no use in doing all of the second guessing and wasting time, out it came.

Shortly after we pulled the engine to pull the trans and verify what we were thinking (which was correct), I called Spec Clutches and spoke with Danny, their engineer. He had me pull several measurements and in the end, ended up sending me a new clutch disc, and a bearing spacer that is listed on the build list in the beginning. If you order from Spec, please make sure you are getting the correct LS4 version. After several discussions with them, I believe Spec may be calling the truck 5.3 an LS4, or at lease they took measurements from a 5.3, not the actual LS4. When I discussed it with them, they were not completely familiar with the FWD LS4 specific motor specs. Bottom line, now that I am driving and messing with the car more, I still think the measurements are off with the spacer they gave me, and Spec's 3800/F40 conversion flywheel has different spec dimensions other than just the different bolt patter that I've asked them to take another look at their "LS4" flywheel and see if they need to re-program any of their manufacturing tolerance. I'll post the final results on this, looks like I may be pulling the engine out again this winter and sending them the clutch and flywheel to examine.

For now, back to the build. I have a bunch of measurements that Danny asked me to send. I am attaching in case anyone else has had a similar issue, or plans to order their flywheel from Spec.









After the measurements were sent, Spec sent me a new disc and spacer.









I installed another new gm slaver cylinder with the bearing spacer from Spec. ZZP does make a spacer that works with the F40, but is on the base of the slave cylinder if you have other spacer requirements, that one only goes up to 0.25. The Spec spacer required was 0.39.





Since the engine was out, we took the time to make some improvements to a few things we noticed during installation. While we were waiting on the spacer, we also repainted the engine to include the water pump housing, valley cover, and valve covers. I used BBQ grill paint that seems to work very well, even with a few hundred miles, I don't have any scratches on the engine so it appears to be holding up well.

More to follow.... Gary



IP: Logged
Thunderstruck GT
Member
Posts: 2620
From:
Registered: Oct 2015


Feedback score: (4)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 97
Rate this member

Report this Post09-17-2018 08:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Thunderstruck GTSend a Private Message to Thunderstruck GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Awesome!

It's great to see someone finally putting a good engine into one of these.

Should be a fast & fun ride!

I'll be looking for updates.
IP: Logged
GPickardt
Member
Posts: 76
From: Charlotte Hall, Md
Registered: Feb 2011


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-23-2018 08:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GPickardtClick Here to Email GPickardtSend a Private Message to GPickardtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Did some troubleshooting this weekend and after talking with FIeroguru, I think I finally have a solid plan to figure out this clutch issue. My main problem was trying to correlate the rattling noise in the transmission as a clutch cylinder rattle, but learned it is the F40 notorious rattle. Now I know.... Either way, I am going to loosen up the transmission mounting bolts and separate the trans enough to put some spacers to pull the clutch fingers away from the cylinder hopefully enough to test a theory that the spacer I have is causing premature pressure on the fingers, which is causing me to lose clamping force on the clutch and thus slipping when it shouldn't be based on the clutch setup I am running.

I will post those results later, but for now, back to the build.

While the engine was out, I touched up a few things, and repainted the engine to include the water pump. First install I left it raw, but didn't really like it. After breaking everything down and checking everything, I also decided to upgrade to a 4 corner steam vent system.







For the 4 corner steam vent, I robbed the front vent off of the second LS4 and cut all of the ends off. I used some brake line and connected them with hose then connected the front vent line down to the water pump housing that I installed a vent fitting in.









With the new clutch disc installed, and new throw-out bearing installed in the trans with the spacer, it was ready to all go back together and install everything in the car.



I took some time to drill holes in the very back of the frame rail on the top ledge and welded a couple of bolts in for grounding points. While the engine was out, I also made a couple of grounding cables left over from battery cables and installed them on the engine and trans. After I installed the engine, I just attached the cables to the lugs I installed and it tucks up nice and neat along the back edge of the frame rail.

Installing the engine went very quickly this time. I did not attach the front mounts first on cradle, I just set the whole car straight down on the engine and cradle assembly and bolted everything back together. After we got everything installed, it took a couple of days to bleed all of the systems again, but no issues with the clutch over extending this time.

IP: Logged
GPickardt
Member
Posts: 76
From: Charlotte Hall, Md
Registered: Feb 2011


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-23-2018 08:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GPickardtClick Here to Email GPickardtSend a Private Message to GPickardtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Because this first build was done in my older sons car, my younger son has been collecting parts and getting ready for his LS4 swap. Below are a couple of photos of the engine put together for the second LS4 / F40 swap. This one will be a little different, but I will save those details for when we get to the build post for that swap. It will be different, and hopefully a little smoother now that we have learned what not to do.





More to come on the first start of the first swap and exhaust install, then on to some fine tuning while working out the clutch issue. Hope to get some of the interior done this winter, then finish exterior paint early next year. Gary
IP: Logged
Spadesluck
Member
Posts: 1759
From: New Mexico
Registered: Jul 2016


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-23-2018 11:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SpadesluckSend a Private Message to SpadesluckEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Very awesome stuff.

I have to just add you are a brave individual leaving your taillights in place while jacking the car up into the air! That was probably the first thing I took off the car before going any further with my engine pull.
IP: Logged
GPickardt
Member
Posts: 76
From: Charlotte Hall, Md
Registered: Feb 2011


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-30-2018 03:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GPickardtClick Here to Email GPickardtSend a Private Message to GPickardtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
With the engine back in and hooked up, everything was running well and extremely loud. I had been talking with a shop about my idea for an exhaust, so next was off to the shop. The next series of photos show the build from the bottom. I didn't take any after this set up on the lift, but of note after studying this set of photos I noticed the heater lines were installed backwards. I have since corrected that and thankfully have no leaks. We did blow a coolant line off during one of our first set of test drives, but that was an easy fix that required a little longer hose section. Using the stock water pump with no modifications other than removing and capping off the stock filler neck, I did find it easier and cleaner to cut off the tube coming off of the thermostat housing to route the line next to it from the crossover pipe.









































Knowing now what I didn't know then, I would have had the shop order the magnflows in an off-set inlet / outlet setup. You will notice some tight bends that could have been avoided with off-set mufflers. Other than that, I like the true dual setup and although I like the look of the Corvette tips, I am not crazy about the slight muffling sound that comes out of them. It does go away, but is more pronounced at lower idle. I will post some of those videos later.

Gary

[This message has been edited by GPickardt (edited 09-30-2018).]

IP: Logged
GPickardt
Member
Posts: 76
From: Charlotte Hall, Md
Registered: Feb 2011


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-30-2018 03:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GPickardtClick Here to Email GPickardtSend a Private Message to GPickardtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

GPickardt

76 posts
Member since Feb 2011
Found a set of tan interior pieces for 88 GT. I am going to install the interior hopefully this week, but looking for recommendations on where to purchase headliner material. Would like to match the color on the top of the dash, darker brown and will order new seat covers and carpet from Mr. Mikes.

Gary

[This message has been edited by GPickardt (edited 09-30-2018).]

IP: Logged
GPickardt
Member
Posts: 76
From: Charlotte Hall, Md
Registered: Feb 2011


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post10-08-2018 02:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GPickardtClick Here to Email GPickardtSend a Private Message to GPickardtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
duplicate post

[This message has been edited by GPickardt (edited 10-14-2018).]

IP: Logged
GPickardt
Member
Posts: 76
From: Charlotte Hall, Md
Registered: Feb 2011


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post10-08-2018 03:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GPickardtClick Here to Email GPickardtSend a Private Message to GPickardtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I started this build post to show that any regular person, with some help, could do this swap. I know there are people looking for a "kit" to do an LS4 swap, and there are some that are fairly close, but no complete kits that I have seen. Which is why I am pretty satisfied with the results from this swap that my sons and I have been able to achieve. If you research Paul Smith's build thread for the LS4 / F40 swap, he is much more detailed, and is what I used as my goal and inspiration for out build. I have asked him a lot of questions and he was always very helpful, but I think I have reached a point now that I want to worry more about the other builds I have rather than what I have built. I will wrap this thread up with a few more photos, but will offer this; Each build is it's own project so is different for each one. The one thing I learned that I think everyone will need to know is the clutch and flywheel piece. No matter what else you do, there are no more important things in my mind than getting this portion of your build spot on. I underestimated this, and thankfully, both SPEC, and FIeroguru have helped me figure it out. If you take nothing else away from this build, please keep this last portion for reference if you are doing an LS4/F40 swap.


LS4s crank is recessed .007 from the bellhousing flange

The F40's throwout bearing is 3.58 totally collapsed.

Spacer with Kit is .260

SPECs clutch and flywheel (3+) is 3.08 from the end of the flywheel to the fingers on the pressure plate torqued down

The pressure plate thickness is .36

Distance from belhousing face on block to edge of fingers on pressure plate - 3.16

The reason this is important, is because I got this wrong initially, and even though 2.88 is close, it isn't right. That and SPEC thought that the flywheel was recessed further than it was.

So your final formula should look like this: 3.58 - 3.16 = .420

The clearance to use for throwout bearing is .150 to .200 so .420 - .260 (This is the thickness of the Spec spacer) = .160. Well within the range.

If you use the SPEC flywheel and clutch with your LS4 swap, this is now their standard spacer that will come with the conversion kit.

















The Speedhut gauges are probably the other thing about this swap that really make the build. Their Freedom can-bus OBDII gauges work off of the OBD harness and get the data straight from the ECM so no additional senders, wires, or transducers are required. I got the extension cables from Speedhut to chain the battery, oil pressure, and water temp from the small gauge cluster in the center, over to the speedometer and tach that have built in settings, trip computer, and other modern advantages. Everyone has google, so I am not going to put the link.







Other than the interior update with seats and other trim features from Mr. Mikes planned, I also have the door pins, inner and outer dew wipes, then finally paint and installing the sail panels, but there are plenty of information on Pennocks for that. I have had a lot of fun with this car so far, and later this winter I will remove the engine cradle one last time to remove the F40 and replace the .390 spacer for the correct one. Even with the clutch not 100 percent (occasional slipping), there are a couple of angry Mustang owners out there that got owned by a Fiero!

No matter what your build is, we wish you the best of luck and hope to see you all out there as we now spend time getting out to other car shows. I would like to give a special shout out again to Fieroguru, thank you for your time and patience. Need to meet up sometime for a cruise and just enjoys the cars. I also owe Joe Sokol , and Ryan at Sinister performance a big thank you. All of these gentlemen are busy guys and have lots of other projects so your time and excellent work in making this project a huge success.


Although I am done posting, please feel free to message me any time. I am not a technical expert by any means, but I can share my lessons learned and experiences from this build. My cell is 951-200-0982, send a text if you would like.

Gary

[This message has been edited by GPickardt (edited 10-14-2018).]

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot

next newest topic | next oldest topic

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock