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Beefing up the Iron Duke by fierofrenzy
Started on: 05-05-2018 12:56 PM
Replies: 21 (560 views)
Last post by: pmbrunelle on 05-14-2018 06:37 PM
fierofrenzy
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Report this Post05-05-2018 12:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofrenzyClick Here to Email fierofrenzySend a Private Message to fierofrenzyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey you all.....Tuesday the 87 4 banger gets its tags and goes on the road. So heres my plans, and my question.
I understand you can really beef up the 4 cyl "Iron Duke" engine. I also have just the guy to do the rebuild. Now all I need is the parts. I'm thinkin' forged pistons, mild cam, even a roller rocker set up. Anybody know of any kind of kit or aftermarket high performance engine parts supplier to get the things I need for a 30 year old motor?
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Report this Post05-05-2018 04:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofrenzy:
I understand you can really beef up the 4 cyl "Iron Duke" engine.


Who told you that?
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Patrick
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Report this Post05-05-2018 05:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

Who told you that?


Definitely someone who doesn't like him.
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post05-05-2018 07:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Depends on what you call "beef up". If you are adding SBC pistons, a cam and an improved intake and exhaust you might get to 110 HP. You need to decide if that's a very good return for the dollars spent.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 05-05-2018).]

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fierofrenzy
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Report this Post05-05-2018 07:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofrenzyClick Here to Email fierofrenzySend a Private Message to fierofrenzyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Who told me that ? Uah.....I looked it up ! Being that a 4 cyl. Fiero once paced the Indy 500, I'm sure the engine was quite " beefed up". Now I'm not looking for, or even expecting massive HP gains. I'm just looking forward to strengthing the engine best I can. I had this done to my Formula 17 years ago , and she STILL runs like the day I pulled her out of the rebuilders garage. And I drive this car hard.
So, where da parts ?
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Report this Post05-05-2018 08:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You might talk to TopNotch from GA Fiero Club....

[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 05-05-2018).]

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Report this Post05-05-2018 09:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofrenzy:
Who told me that ? Uah.....I looked it up ! Being that a 4 cyl. Fiero once paced the Indy 500, I'm sure the engine was quite " beefed up".Now I'm not looking for, or even expecting massive HP gains. I'm just looking forward to strengthing the engine best I can. I had this done to my Formula 17 years ago , and she STILL runs like the day I pulled her out of the rebuilders garage. And I drive this car hard.
So, where da parts ?
Sad you think so... Real Indy pace car was a complete race build and used a race version of 4 cyl called "Super Duty" and likely even that had mods. Not a 84-86 production engine even for the block.

87 version is another engine too and make a little more power but still have some of same weak points like Timing Cam Gears
See my Cave, Duke Quick Ref, DIS Ignition and 700 TBI.

Make sure engine reaches WOT when the pedal is floored. Many can't and nothing is going to help until you find a way to fix whatever causing the problem.
iffy cable, pedal parts or both.
See my Cave, Throttle Cable

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)


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Gall757
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Report this Post05-05-2018 09:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If by 'beefed up' you mean a completely different engine as the SD4 was in the pace car......get your wallet out....and post pictures.....we all love it when one of those engines gets put together. You can search for Super Duty on the forum and find a lot of information.
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fierofrenzy
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Report this Post05-06-2018 06:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofrenzyClick Here to Email fierofrenzySend a Private Message to fierofrenzyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey Fieroguru.... now that's what I'm talkin' about. Thanks a lot for posting those links. I can see I have a lot of searching to do. I'm not to worried about my wallet, more worried about availability of parts.

P.S. I appreciate all you guys who take the time to post links and photos to help other Fiero owners on here.
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Report this Post05-07-2018 09:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofrenzy:

Hey Fieroguru.... now that's what I'm talkin' about. Thanks a lot for posting those links. I can see I have a lot of searching to do. I'm not to worried about my wallet, more worried about availability of parts.

P.S. I appreciate all you guys who take the time to post links and photos to help other Fiero owners on here.


A good starting point would be to state your expectations in horsepower and torque. If you start with a 90HP engine what do you wish to end up with? There was a guy many years back by the name of Ira Crummy who did a performance Duke build. His website is still up:
Ira's Fiero Pages

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Report this Post05-07-2018 10:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofrenzy:

Uah.....I looked it up ! Being that a 4 cyl. Fiero once paced the Indy 500, I'm sure the engine was quite " beefed up".


There is quite a bit of difference between the Pace Car's SD4 engine and the standard Iron Duke.
Beefier block, forged internals, heads that flow 80% more air and so on.
The SD4 with solid roller lifters is good for 8000rpm all day long. ("fly apart" is about 10,000rpm)
Hydraulic lifters limit you to about 6500rpm when you start getting "valve float".

My SD4 Indy: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000077.html

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 05-14-2018).]

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fierofrenzy
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Report this Post05-07-2018 09:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofrenzyClick Here to Email fierofrenzySend a Private Message to fierofrenzyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Heres an interesting article about the Iron Duke. https://gafiero.akroncdnr.com/docs/Winning4Cyl.pdf
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Patrick
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Report this Post05-08-2018 04:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofrenzy:

Heres an interesting article about the Iron Duke...


About the only thing that Iron Duke has in common with your (or my) Iron Duke is that they both have four cylinders.

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Report this Post05-08-2018 08:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofrenzy:
I'm not to worried about my wallet, more worried about availability of parts.


I look forward to a thread that's not another 3800 swap.

Spending copious amounts of money on wild projects is fun, if sufficient money is available.

An inexpensive substitute for that fun is to read a thread about someone else's costly, but fun, adventure.

Everyone loves the story of an underdog who comes out on top. Do it with the Duke!

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 05-08-2018).]

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fierofrenzy
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Report this Post05-09-2018 07:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofrenzyClick Here to Email fierofrenzySend a Private Message to fierofrenzyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a good one concerning my 88 Formula . I " beefed up" that one in a way. Anybody want to hear it ?
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Patrick
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Report this Post05-09-2018 11:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Let's hear it.
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Report this Post05-10-2018 02:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofrenzy:

Heres an interesting article about the Iron Duke.
https://gafiero.akroncdnr.com/docs/Winning4Cyl.pdf


 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

About the only thing that Iron Duke has in common with your (or my) Iron Duke is that they both have four cylinders.


Yup - THAT is the Super Duty 4 engine I alluded to earlier...

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Report this Post05-13-2018 09:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WKDFIROClick Here to Email WKDFIROSend a Private Message to WKDFIROEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My 87 coupe with the 5 spd came alive when I replaced the exhaust manifold with a Hooker Tri-Y header. Only problem was that the plumbing was too close to the starter solenoid. I was changing starters every 6 months. Had it down to a 30 minute change. But I kept up with stock GTs. I was very happy with the improved response.

Good luck finding a Hooker Tri-Y header. I was lucky to find the one I got.
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fierofrenzy
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Report this Post05-13-2018 09:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofrenzyClick Here to Email fierofrenzySend a Private Message to fierofrenzyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Then how about porting out the stock manifold. I had this done to my Formula, and had the welds strengthened. Breathes much better, especially at high RPM.

There is / was a header on ebay just a few days back. I'm not sure who the manufacturer was. the seller wanted $170 for it. I question weather it was worth it. Kinda feel it is, considering how rare it is.
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Report this Post05-14-2018 02:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by WKDFIRO:

My 87 coupe with the 5 spd came alive when I replaced the exhaust manifold with a Hooker Tri-Y header. Only problem was that the plumbing was too close to the starter solenoid. I was changing starters every 6 months. Had it down to a 30 minute change. But I kept up with stock GTs. I was very happy with the improved response.

Good luck finding a Hooker Tri-Y header. I was lucky to find the one I got.


I had one built for my SD4 (exhaust ports on SD4 head are different).

What it looks like for those who don't know about the Tri-Y (4-into-2-into1) arrangement - NOT my engine.



------------------
My World of Wheels Winners (Click on links below)

3.4L Supercharged 87 GT and Super Duty 4 Indy #163

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Report this Post05-14-2018 06:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofrenzy:
There is / was a header on ebay just a few days back. I'm not sure who the manufacturer was. the seller wanted $170 for it. I question weather it was worth it. Kinda feel it is, considering how rare it is.


If the alternative is to pay someone (such as WCF, or your favorite tuning shop) to take a bunch of mandrel bends and weld them together into an exhaust manifold... anything you can buy pre-made will be more economical.

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 05-14-2018).]

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