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How does your shifter feel? by Leukay
Started on: 04-09-2018 02:36 PM
Replies: 14 (310 views)
Last post by: pmbrunelle on 04-10-2018 09:54 PM
Leukay
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Report this Post04-09-2018 02:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LeukayClick Here to Email LeukaySend a Private Message to LeukayEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hi all,

So my first manual Fiero is one that I bought as a bare shell and I've swapped a 3800sc with a Fiero getrag into it. I originally used Rodney's comp II shifter and his shift/select cables. The actual shifter body has been rebuilt using Rodney's kit.

I have now just finished swapping the Fiero getrag out for an F23 and I'm using California push pull cables.

With both setups, I notice a lot of "looseness" within the shifter cables that makes it feel extremely disconnected to the trans. Nothing is really loose, I guess it's just the inherent play you'll have in long cables with bends in them. I'm just curious if they are all like this or if there is actually something wrong.

I have a 2017 Focus ST that shifts via cables, albiet much shorter cables, and it feels like the shifter is directly connected to the trans. I know it is much newer technology but I am chasing that solid shifting feel in the Fiero. Let me know your thoughts!

Thanks,
Lucas
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olejoedad
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Report this Post04-09-2018 02:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's not the cables, it's the linkage on top of the trans.
The cable sheaths are held in place, the cable length makes no difference.
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Leukay
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Report this Post04-09-2018 03:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LeukayClick Here to Email LeukaySend a Private Message to LeukayEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

It's not the cables, it's the linkage on top of the trans.
The cable sheaths are held in place, the cable length makes no difference.


I had thought of that, but with both transmissions I've held the linkage at the transmission in place and had someone wiggle the shifter. The select cable moves at the shifter but not at the linkage. This leads me to believe the play is within the cable. Since I've tried both Rodney's cable and the new one from California push pull it isn't a faulty cable..
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Raydar
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Report this Post04-09-2018 05:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Could be the bushings / pins at the shifter.
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pokeyfiero
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Report this Post04-09-2018 06:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pokeyfieroClick Here to visit pokeyfiero's HomePageClick Here to Email pokeyfieroSend a Private Message to pokeyfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
All my shifters feel neglected and lonely. I should park them closer together so they can keep eachother company.

Oh man. I just realized I have shifters boxed up in the barn for years. I wonder how they feel.
What a horrible Fiero parent!! Wouldn't surprise me if the FPA came calling. I better straighten up the shop.
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jpeeler
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Report this Post04-09-2018 07:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jpeelerClick Here to Email jpeelerSend a Private Message to jpeelerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pokeyfiero:

All my shifters feel neglected and lonely. I should park them closer together so they can keep eachother company.

Oh man. I just realized I have shifters boxed up in the barn for years. I wonder how they feel.
What a horrible Fiero parent!! Wouldn't surprise me if the FPA came calling. I better straighten up the shop.


You have spare shifters? New ones? Really good shape shifters? Willing to part with any?
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RWDPLZ
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Report this Post04-09-2018 09:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Shifter is easily the worst part of the car. I test drove a BRZ and the shifter in that was fine, so it's really WTF.



I hear the manual trans Fieros have pretty bad shifters too (my Fiero is an automatic...)
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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post04-09-2018 10:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had a daily driven 5-speed Isuzu for 8 years or so, and it felt fine.

The 4-speed feels better with its springs/detents in the shifter itself, but this is an in-progress swap, so I don't have any on-road impressions.

I wouldn't categorize the Fiero shifters as "extremely disconnected". With the Isuzu I found it easy to slam gears at the dragstrip.

It's hard to compare feel, as I haven't tried a Ford Focus. It's hard to say if your expectations are too high, or if something is broken/worn in your Fiero.
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2.5
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Report this Post04-10-2018 11:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think a Fiero shifter setup that is maintained and works like new is fine.
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Tony Kania
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Report this Post04-10-2018 12:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Stamped steel. Worn bushings. Spare change.

The Fiero shift mechanism in the console is crap. No way around that. I want to install another shift mechanism from another car one day. I have no idea how, but my initial thoughts go towards a B&M that is in the T5 aftermarket world.

I have mine as clean as it can be, greased with axle grease to help with some of the wear, but it is still not as direct as I believe it can be. I thought about rebushing it, but the "lipstick on a pig" analogy comes to mind.
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2.5
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Report this Post04-10-2018 01:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My most recent Fiero with a getrag has a short throw shift and a cut off shifter. Now that is a little harsh.
A buddy told me he can hear me shift when he is driving along side me with his window down.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 04-10-2018).]

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pokeyfiero
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Report this Post04-10-2018 02:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pokeyfieroClick Here to visit pokeyfiero's HomePageClick Here to Email pokeyfieroSend a Private Message to pokeyfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Soak kroil oil in shifter cables that are stiff and hard to shift. They will work like new after.
I have purchased new set from rodney and I still have them because Kroil has worked every time.
Rodney make best cables BTW if you need to buy them.


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fieroguru
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Report this Post04-10-2018 08:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The Fiero shifter suffers from stacking of tolerances and is most noticeable with the select (side to side) function.

With the 5 speed shifters, there are 7 locations between the shift knob and the shift cable where parts move relative to each other. If they move, they have to have some clearance, and with 7 locations needing some clearance, it all adds up. There are 3 more points that need clearance on the transmission select lever.
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Tony Kania
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Report this Post04-10-2018 08:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I understand the mechanics of both mechanisms. I would like to incorporate the two.








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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post04-10-2018 09:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

The Fiero shifter suffers from stacking of tolerances and is most noticeable with the select (side to side) function.

With the 5 speed shifters, there are 7 locations between the shift knob and the shift cable where parts move relative to each other. If they move, they have to have some clearance, and with 7 locations needing some clearance, it all adds up. There are 3 more points that need clearance on the transmission select lever.


The Shift movement has always felt positive to me. The feeling of having engaged a gear is unambiguous to me; feels like hitting a stiff wall. (am speaking from Isuzu experience)

With Select, there is play, but it is not a problem IMO. To find 3-4, release the shifter. To find 1-2, slam the lever all the way to the left. To find 5-R, slam all the way right.
I consider this Select play to be a characteristic having no effect on the functionality of the car, not a flaw.

 
quote
Originally posted by Tony Kania:

I understand the mechanics of both mechanisms. I would like to incorporate the two.


Are you going to bring out a shift cable for each shift fork all the way into the cabin?
That seems like fairly extensive modifications to the transmission, but perhaps not impossible.

If you want to overlay a tight shift pattern in the cabin over the slack pattern in the transmission, that seems like a recipe for mismatch between both patterns and a bunch of headaches.
Reminds me of indexed shifters on bicycles; it's always a pain making sure the dérailleur stops directly below a cog. If those are the maintenance issues you want to give yourself...

My new (used) daily driver I just purchased is a Ford Ranger. It has a shifter similar to the type you pictured. It directly actuates three shift forks below. It's quite an elegant setup I find...

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 04-10-2018).]

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