You may have heard this story before. But today it just struck me more. Will we be doing electric swaps? Will there be electric crate setups? As a car guy this is kind of a big deal. Other fuels?
- California wants to by 2040. Their proposal would apparently actually try to ban registrations of gas powered cars. "But a bill that will soon be introduced would put an end to statewide gas-powered car registrations starting in 2040." http://www.motortrend.com/n...nning-ice-cars-2040/
Britain, France and China seem to say they would ban new sales Diesel and Gas, and France to ban drilling. Norway Scotland are working on it too. Germany is pushing the EU to do it sooner.
Two things I see; #1) It is absolutely impossible to continue to believe that there is "No such thing as Global warming" as the Oil industry has stated in all of their billion-dollar campaigns to keep profits up........It is almost as hard to argue that fossil fuels are not adding to- if not outright causing the global warming......Sadly, this will lead to the death of oil fueled vehicles, sooner, rather than later.
#2) The whole "Self driving" cars thing will soon make it impossible to drive your own car.....I would say there will be laws against driving a car sans computer-control within 20-30 years.
Computers are taking over- Also electricity....soon they will have all the rights and we will have none..........(I knew I was in trouble when I stuck my finger in a a light socket back when I was 5......ZAP!!!)
On the self driving car thing. While I would normally be a skeptic, I see them every day on the road in Tempe, AZ and other than all the external cameras and sensors you wouldn't notice them. They drive as fast as traffic and somehow manage to get around all the College students at every intersection on their bikes, skateboards and walking. I've been impressed and only a few accidents reported which were probably someone else's fault.
I'm expecting it to be a shared road, both self driving and people driving. Just like we still allow tractors on the road in farming country, and horse and buggies in Amish country.
Self-driving mode still has a lot of bugs. Tesla 3 failed, just last night. The question is who to blame. I am sure that probably 60% of drivers are unsafe at any speed, and more are frequently unsafe.
Record cold temps, due to global warming. The greatest thing we can learn from history is that we don't learn from history. Certainly some states have issues with pollution, and going electric moves the pollution from one place to another.
Politically, yes, gasoline cars will be banned, largely because some seem to believe that what is bad for one is bad for all. When these automated systems fail, it's impossible to do anything about it. The news does not report the problems. Show me a 30-year-old self-driving car still on the road.
These automated systems are about population control. Health (ex ACA), remuneration (entitlements), reproduction (ex abortifacts in the water), food (synthetic engineered, overseas), media/education/religion (establishment, including erasing history), communication (political correctness, monitoring), self-defense (gun/ammo control), and transportation (remotely-controlled, self-driving cars). If you think about it, all of these elements are being forced upon us. Formerly, this was called slavery.
They made a movie about this future, called Demolition Man.
Originally posted by cvxjet: .. #2) The whole "Self driving" cars thing will soon make it impossible to drive your own car.....I would say there will be laws against driving a car sans computer-control within 20-30 years.
Computers are taking over- Also electricity....soon they will have all the rights and we will have none..........(I knew I was in trouble when I stuck my finger in a a light socket back when I was 5......ZAP!!!)
I hope we can leave the political, or otherwise reasons out maybe fr the betterment of the thread.
As to your other two points, I reluctantly agree. That'll suck for us car guys too.
Instead of "The NASCAR driving experience" track days, there will be "The Driving Experience" track days...LOL.
I'm surprised I haven't heard of any electric conversions people can buy, must be faar too expensive for any company to get a profit to make them. I mean one that could go in where an LS can go even?
How much lithium is on the planet would we run out of that?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/a...ut-at-ces/ar-BBIal3Q Now, at the 2018 Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas, we've gotten a full reveal of the upcoming vehicle, as well as new details about Fisker's solid-state battery technology, which has the potential for dramatic increases in electric driving range.
I'm surprised I haven't heard of any electric conversions people can buy, must be faar too expensive for any company to get a profit to make them. I mean one that could go in where an LS can go even?
It isn't plug'n'play. There are issues for brakes, HVAC, charging, voltage regulation handling, etc. Getting the car moving is the easy part.
I know some of what I said may sound political- I am not trying to in any way take this thread that way, and I apologize if anyone has ruffled feathers.
I hate to say it (As far as self-driving cars) but seriously, 75-85% of the people out there should not be allowed to ride a bicycle, let alone drive a 1-2 ton vehicle! EVERYONE is texting while driving, most can't find their way to the store without GPS, etc.......
If you constantly wreck in your VIDEO driving world.....you should not be able to get a drivers license.....
I'm surprised I haven't heard of any electric conversions people can buy, must be faar too expensive for any company to get a profit to make them. I mean one that could go in where an LS can go even?
A quick Google search showed many companies selling conversion kits that you can buy.
I wouldn't get too attached to any machines - it will always be a progress. If gas is on it's way out, let it be. We'll adapt. Look at your phones. I don't think many people miss the old keypad-style ones though there was much talk of that ~10 years ago.
I'd love to have a self driving car so I can do something more productive than focusing on basically not crashing.
I know some of what I said may sound political- I am not trying to in any way take this thread that way, and I apologize if anyone has ruffled feathers.
I hate to say it (As far as self-driving cars) but seriously, 75-85% of the people out there should not be allowed to ride a bicycle, let alone drive a 1-2 ton vehicle! EVERYONE is texting while driving, most can't find their way to the store without GPS, etc.......
If you constantly wreck in your VIDEO driving world.....you should not be able to get a drivers license.....
The main purpose of driving is to get people places... this is an economic necessity.
Most people MUST drive; this is how we manage to work and trade. Driving may be a risky activity, but it's better than not driving, even if most people drive dangerously.
quote
Originally posted by cebix:
I wouldn't get too attached to any machines - it will always be a progress. If gas is on it's way out, let it be. We'll adapt. Look at your phones. I don't think many people miss the old keypad-style ones though there was much talk of that ~10 years ago.
I'd love to have a self driving car so I can do something more productive than focusing on basically not crashing.
Well I still insist on a flip phone, a Fiero for a sports car, and my DD has port fuel injection, manual transmission, and non-ABS brakes, because I prefer it that way. And I'm considering letting go of my cellphone to only keep the landline.
I'm going to be a really whiny old guy complaining about all the new-fangled stuff in existence.
Or maybe this gadget-filled world will not exist... another possible outcome, fueled by the exhaustion of oil and overpopulation is a WW3 which kills many inhabitants in leaves the survivors in a pre-industrial era.
Thank Gosh someone else still uses a flip-phone.....I actually was talking to a young lady and when she found out I did NOT own a smart-phone, she would not even talk to me anymore! (Maybe the next gen smart-phone will add a "Woo-woo-woo!!" button so we don't actually ever have to meet....)
Transportation is important....Personally controlled (Foot-by-foot) movement is not! Our grandchildren will live in a world where everyone (EASILY) gets around in trans-pods or some such......The vacuum tube mach 5 trans-continental system will make it easy for you to go to lunch in NY and be back on the west coast before your kids get out of school or such....It's coming....It will be both safer and more efficient......But I still like (And prefer) dicing a canyon road with my Fiero!
When you think how people have lived in the past, thru numerous different cultures and centuries, it is amazing how much can change, and yet how much the >>SAME<< people are.....
Originally posted by tshark: It isn't plug'n'play. There are issues for brakes, HVAC, charging, voltage regulation handling, etc. Getting the car moving is the easy part.
Yup. Just charge/discharge cycles generate battery heat... A single 12v battery for you car often gets warm when you charge them. More so using 20+amp charger or pull a lot of power. Now figure hundreds to thousands of cells and find out fast that Poor battery heat management is a Huge Problem. Leaf et al w/ air cooled battery packs still have problems w/ battery heat causing them to die much sooner.
DIY and Aftermarket battery "fixes" for E-cars are already happens because of that and more like Aftermarket Co's sell/sold Prius long range and/or "rebuilt" batteries.
Worse Everything done on YT to LiIon power tools and E-bikes are going to do the same crap to E-cars. This is why many new tool batteries are "sealed" so makers can void warranties and fight you when a "fix" battery causes a fire. Most of the public by now have seen Laptop, Phones, Esmoke and the hover-board explosions problems yet think can follow Internet "directions" to fix or improved and can't happen to them.
Many to most E-cars are Leased and like GM EV1 (that used lead acid batteries)... Dealers and Car makers can hind most Leased cars issues from the public that will never see how many batteries have problems. Off-lease cars sold can use the OE one, "brand authorize" or not Rebuilt battery and never report to the buyer. Dealers just hope any warranty runs out before the battery dies. Even buying New E-cars the Warranty often does not cover battery or does but can be different time/distance limits vs rest of car.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
After working on cars for most of my life, I can say that gas and diesel are both dirty burning fuels. A lot of energy is used just to make them clean coming out of the tail pipe. Natural gas and propane much cleaner. If you look into a natural gas engine, they have much less gunk built up in them. Biggest issue is valve wear. But they will run out also. We spend way too much trying to get oil companies fuels to run clean. I even consider (combination/parallel)hybrids a joke. A lot is negated in the weight of the battery, awful transmissions and the inverters. The stators in those transmissions are heavy. An ICE engine runs it's most efficient when it is running around the same RPM. CV transmissions are not the answer to that. We have been using (straight/serial) hybrids for over 100 years. We just don't realize where they are used. Very dependable, simple and efficient. Rail road locomotives. If you scale down the system and use a small battery(or better, capacitor bank) for acceleration. Electric motor for each wheel. The motors can also be used for dynamic braking. A small ICE motor or even better a turbo shaft to run the generator. There was a F1 Chaparell design like that. But the F1 circuit wouldn't allow it. Not the J2 but another prototype. It was centered in a Popular Mechanics mag a while back. With a turbo shaft.
Some technologies, I can do without. I don't own a cell phone. If someone needs to get a hold of me, good preplaning works better. In cars, It makes me sick to see that we are buying what is in the dashboard before we concern ourselves with what is under the car. Don't get me wrong, the addition of antilock brake systems ,made it much safer for those who didn't know how to handle a car in a skid condition. But it has also made people more dependent on it. Now people take their cars to the limit where the antilock systems can't overcome what they are trying to make it do. Then they get pissed off because they assume the system failed instead of realizing they were taking it beyond what it was designed to do. The new self braking and lane correction systems are going to make it where people won't at all bother to pay attention. It makes us brain lazy and it is going to get bad. Not to mention the cost. This past fall. Woman comes in complaining of a sloshing sound in the floor. After pleading to her to give us little more information, We find out she parked her car in an area she knew it was starting flood out the streets. To save walking distance she parks there anyway and goes into a restaurant for about an hour. Well the can bus controlled seat modules, floor airbag harness, floor accessories harness from the dash to the trunk had to be replaced. there had to have been 2 inches water under the carpet in the wiring channels. The water had gotten to the bottom of the door openings. The electronics in the car are not designed to be submerged. Lucky she didn't take out the front radar array for the auto braking. The insurance company had to leave the instance open in case of further problems that may show up later. Another 2 inches they would have totaled a 2015 Honda Accord. With all these advances, we are becoming less intelligent and more arrogant.
[This message has been edited by cmechmann (edited 01-09-2018).]
After working on cars for most of my life, I can say that gas and diesel are both dirty burning fuels. A lot of energy is used just to make them clean coming out of the tail pipe. Natural gas and propane much cleaner. If you look into a natural gas engine, they have much less gunk built up in them. Biggest issue is valve wear. But they will run out also. We spend way too much trying to get oil companies fuels to run clean. I even consider (combination/parallel)hybrids a joke. A lot is negated in the weight of the battery, awful transmissions and the inverters. The stators in those transmissions are heavy. An ICE engine runs it's most efficient when it is running around the same RPM. CV transmissions are not the answer to that. We have been using (straight/serial) hybrids for over 100 years. We just don't realize where they are used. Very dependable, simple and efficient. Rail road locomotives. If you scale down the system and use a small battery(or better, capacitor bank) for acceleration. Electric motor for each wheel. The motors can also be used for dynamic braking. A small ICE motor or even better a turbo shaft to run the generator. There was a F1 Chaparell design like that. But the F1 circuit wouldn't allow it. Not the J2 but another prototype. It was centered in a Popular Mechanics mag a while back. With a turbo shaft.
Some technologies, I can do without. I don't own a cell phone. If someone needs to get a hold of me, good preplaning works better. In cars, It makes me sick to see that we are buying what is in the dashboard before we concern ourselves with what is under the car. Don't get me wrong, the addition of antilock brake systems ,made it much safer for those who didn't know how to handle a car in a skid condition. But it has also made people more dependent on it. Now people take their cars to the limit where the antilock systems can't overcome what they are trying to make it do. Then they get pissed off because they assume the system failed instead of realizing they were taking it beyond what it was designed to do. The new self braking and lane correction systems are going to make it where people won't at all bother to pay attention. It makes us brain lazy and it is going to get bad. Not to mention the cost. This past fall. Woman comes in complaining of a sloshing sound in the floor. After pleading to her to give us little more information, We find out she parked her car in an area she knew it was starting flood out the streets. To save walking distance she parks there anyway and goes into a restaurant for about an hour. Well the can bus controlled seat modules, floor airbag harness, floor accessories harness from the dash to the trunk had to be replaced. there had to have been 2 inches water under the carpet in the wiring channels. The water had gotten to the bottom of the door openings. The electronics in the car are not designed to be submerged. Lucky she didn't take out the front radar array for the auto braking. The insurance company had to leave the instance open in case of further problems that may show up later. Another 2 inches they would have totaled a 2015 Honda Accord. With all these advances, we are becoming less intelligent and more arrogant.
I hate to say it, but the reason this will come to pass is because of the new technologies and how we, as human beings, react to them. The ABS was a great invention that made cars much safer for the vast majority of drivers. And there in lies the issue. The vast majority. All the commercials today that are centered on lane keeping, self stopping, blind spot monitoring, ect. all show idiots driving the cars. They are shocked that the car just stopped for them and saved them from a wreck they didn't see coming because they were oblivious to their surroundings. Most people are not in that category. Yet. Most people before ABS could stop their cars without locking up the brakes constantly. Most people today are dependent on the system and drive like complete a**holes slamming their brakes at the last minute everywhere they go. Give them more systems that will allow them to pay less attention and they will become accustomed to it and eventually do so. Eventually most people that can stay in their own lanes today will become the minority and the majority will need it. Look at how many wrecks already occur with Tesla's self driving system because people want it to drive them through road construction or something. Even after the system is telling them to take control of the car. The technology is only in it's infant stages right now, but soon self driving cars will be fully capable of driving everywhere in all conditions. The rate that technology matures on a yearly basis is astounding. How long ago was it that flip phones were the pinnacle of phone technology? How long ago was it that 90% of America had a land line and nothing else? Once the technology is perfected the inability of the majority of people to drive themselves safely anywhere will ensure legislation comes down requiring self driving cars for the safety of the majority regardless of the capabilities of the minority. At that point any elements that may desire the gasoline motor will have been removed and there will be no reason, other than a technological one, to not go with the most efficient means of powering the vehicles. The big oil companies are not stupid and are extremely wealthy. We may no longer be buying their gasoline, but Exxon batteries or hydrogen or whatever the fuel of the future is will still be available at the fill stations. No one else has the sheer number of resources available to them to transition as smoothly to that new future. Any competitors will just be bought out.
Originally posted by mr_corean: The big oil companies are not stupid and are extremely wealthy. We may no longer be buying their gasoline, but Exxon batteries or hydrogen or whatever the fuel of the future is will still be available at the fill stations. No one else has the sheer number of resources available to them to transition as smoothly to that new future. Any competitors will just be bought out.
Electricity/batteries/hydrogen are NOT a source of energy. They are merely a means of temporary energy storage.
In order to generate electricity, you generally need to burn some type of fossil fuel.
It is criminal that we have not spent some real money on two "Moonshot" ideas; MUCH better storage devices (Batteries) and very efficient solar panels....Regular panels are only approx' 14% efficient, some get up towards 20%......How about ones that are 50% efficient?
This is where the Oil Industry has made their biggest (And most anti-social) mistake.....These companies should have been operating as "Energy companies" and invested in research to "catch the wave" with alternate energy, so to speak....All houses should get their daylight-hour energy from solar cells, and have storage to run stuff at night......And then tell the big electrical utilities to pound sand......
And nuclear; We went with Uranium reactors simply because it allowed bomb production- Yet there is an alternative that everyone could use; Thorium reactors....The Thorium fuel is much more prevalent on the Earth's surface, and the Thorium reaction must be forced by outside radiation, so when you lose power, it shuts down automatically...Also, it is very hard to create bomb-grade fissionable material with a Thorium reactor.....
The.....sound.......of......"dialing"......Most old movies and TV shows have that sound..........I have wondered about when we will have cell phones surgically attached......
(If you want to watch a very funny old movie- "The President's Analyst" with James Coburn......"It's the PHONE Company!")
It seems odd that there has been many times that the US has (most likely purposely) dropped the ball on energy research. A few years back there was a company looking for funding to start producing a cheaper way to may solar panels. After many attempts and failures to get the feds to back them, the Chinese scooped it up. There were several stories going around the years of more efficient carburetors that seemed to just get squashed. There was one that GM had installed in an early 80s 2.8 V6 that was getting close to 40 mpg. The customer went to the dealer, due to them assuming there was an issue. They repurchased back from then due to an emissions error that they couldn't repair. Before the 70s, US had some of the largest funding for fusion research, to the point it was only materials research that held it back. Then the research dwindled down. But it was also strange that after, Owens-Corning acceled in ceramics. That some of the aerospace companies shot down the insulation compound "starlite" because they wanted to be greedy about it. That has died with the inventor. I'm sorry that I can't remember the sources. But I would swear that I had read about each one of these occurrences in more that one instance.
There is a reference to this movie in an episode of WKRP- "Bomb Threat" Where Johnny Fever and Venus are at the remote transmitter in a cornfield.....Johnny tries to call in a bet to his bookie, but is put on hold and the horse(A long shot named "Dr. Fever") comes in, which would have turned Johnny's $100 bet into $10,000 so Johnny smashes the phone (With a tool box that luckily did not at that moment go "Boom"!) Later, when the station finds out the bomb is at the transmitter(In the tool box!) and send cops to rescue the DJs (Who's phone obviously doesn't work) Johnny suddenly decides that the sirens are the "Phone police"! (Most people do not get the reference!) The last scene in the episode is Johnny sneaking up behind Jennifer (the receptionist) and- as the phone rings- he suddenly runs out the door in a panic......
The movie has a very memorable scene where Coburn and a hippy girl are ......in a field......and 4-5 assassins try to take him out.....
