Pennock's Fiero Forum
  General Fiero Chat
  Flush headlights

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


next newest topic | next oldest topic
Flush headlights by Wraith177
Started on: 11-29-2017 04:25 PM
Replies: 15 (554 views)
Last post by: VanGTP5000 on 12-02-2017 10:43 AM
Wraith177
Member
Posts: 52
From: Parker, CO USA
Registered: Nov 2017


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-29-2017 04:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Wraith177Send a Private Message to Wraith177Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey guys, quick question.
When I bought my Fiero it already had flush headlights, powered by lights from a 93 camaro. To put it simply, they suck. I get little to no light on the road. I’ve tried angling it lower, but it doesn’t seem to do anything. Should I stick with it and try and put led in it, or find headlight assemblies (because the headlight motor, everything got ripped out) and put in led lights that will fit the fiero a stock headlight? Let me know what you guys think. My friends, and the wife likes the flush look. Right now it’s just not very practical.

------------------
This signature adds .5 bhp.
When in doubt, gun it.

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
VanGTP5000
Member
Posts: 643
From: Sunny South Florida, USA
Registered: Feb 2017


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-29-2017 07:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VanGTP5000Click Here to Email VanGTP5000Send a Private Message to VanGTP5000Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't know if you saw my post today in Tech...


http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/140659.html

-Van
IP: Logged
IMSA GT
Member
Posts: 8802
From: Smogfornia
Registered: Aug 2007


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 242
Rate this member

Report this Post11-29-2017 08:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IMSA GTClick Here to Email IMSA GTSend a Private Message to IMSA GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Honestly if they are the Kris Munson style where the lights are in a fiberglass bucket recessed in the hood, you will not be able to get any good results with any bulbs. Because they are recessed so far in the buckets, the light is channeled straight ahead. If you aim them down, they simple aim right into the bucket instead of the road. If you want to keep a recessed look and want function, contact Chris on his website and check out his headlight kit:
http://embraceracing.com/flushmounts.php

His screen name on here is DoubleC4
IP: Logged
Wraith177
Member
Posts: 52
From: Parker, CO USA
Registered: Nov 2017


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-30-2017 08:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Wraith177Send a Private Message to Wraith177Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Van - I did see it, but I get so little light going to the road that adding more I don’t will fix my problem.
IMSA - I will see about getting in contact with him. While those look very cool, wife might kill me if I just bought those on a whim. But that you I’ll save that link and keep it in mind.

------------------
This signature adds .5 bhp.
When in doubt, gun it.

IP: Logged
VanGTP5000
Member
Posts: 643
From: Sunny South Florida, USA
Registered: Feb 2017


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-30-2017 09:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for VanGTP5000Click Here to Email VanGTP5000Send a Private Message to VanGTP5000Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wraith,

I completely understand. Mine are pop up not flush mounted so I don't have that problem.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

-Van
IP: Logged
theogre
Member
Posts: 29475
From: USA
Registered: Mar 99


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 551
Rate this member

Report this Post11-30-2017 05:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My guess guy sold it knew they suck and didn't say anything. Sadly may have other "upgrades" that will bite you later.

Restoring OE lights depend on year for car... 87-88 used gen 2 motors that is better. Older cars can upgrade to them w/ some work.
See my Cave, Gen 2 HL Motor
But yes, would need all lift and door parts too not just motors... All Fiero are same lift/door parts.

 
quote
Originally posted by IMSA GT:
Honestly if they are the Kris Munson style where the lights are in a fiberglass bucket recessed in the hood, you will not be able to get any good results with any bulbs. Because they are recessed so far in the buckets, the light is channeled straight ahead. If you aim them down, they simple aim right into the bucket instead of the road. If you want to keep a recessed look and want function, contact Chris on his website and check out his headlight kit:
http://embraceracing.com/flushmounts.php
Yup Trying to "fix" Munson and others w/ brighter Halogen HID LED etc often won't help. Often will do exact opposite and make Glare and other problems worse.
Closeup Munson kit w/ hood closed etc see http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...HTML/138884.html#p10 Fiber Glass cover part of HLs is only the start of problems...

Several members bought Munson and other "flushmount," or made their own HL "upgrades," then had to mod the "upgrades" or restore OE light to get more light to see the road. Plus some find out after is illegal in many places because of covers, using fog/driving lights not HL, etc.

Yes Current Fad HL "upgrade" is HID w/ blister covers that you link... may be "better" then Munson et al but also illegal in many places. Local cops and cops anywhere you drive in/thru can stop you for illegal HL covers alone. This is part of why some had to remove Munson covers. Many DMV's web sites will tell you HL and other covers are illegal but other DMV sites often says nothing but still illegal per State Laws/Rules.

Many vendors sells many things illegal to use on the street because little to no risk for them vs. huge profit to sell to suckers. Many vendors and even some manufacturers hind behind "check local laws" "Off Road Use Only" but knowing full well the buyers will have no clue or simply ignore this like current Sylvania LEDs for cars sold thru O'Reilly AZ Wallmart etc has "For Off Road Use Only" in orange/red small print on the front of most packs.

If a product is Recall by NHTSA(USDOT) etc Recalls are for the Manufacturers problem to answer and deal with. Sellers get all money and simple stop selling at best. (Many vendors will sell the recall part until stock runs out.) Even most Big Retail stores like Kmart etc never deal w/ most recalls except stop selling whatever. Recent Kidde Fire Extinguisher Recall is a good example... Stores sold them for Decades but only Kidde has to fix them. Worse, 15+ years from now you will find Recall units still in use and sold at flea markets etc.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)


The Ogre's Fiero Cave

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 11-30-2017).]

IP: Logged
Fiero Vice
Member
Posts: 618
From: Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 2015


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-30-2017 10:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero ViceSend a Private Message to Fiero ViceEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
As usual, excellent advice, Theogre!

Also, thanks for the excellent resource of info at our fingertips. Much appreciated for what you do for the Fiero community, Theogre!

Out of curious, what about 90mm pop up headlights? Is it illegal in the states? What about Pennsylvania if you know?

I plan to install one & wanted to have both low & high beams on at once when turning to high beams in pitch dark areas. I'm having a hard time to find any info if it's illegal in the state of PA.

[This message has been edited by Fiero Vice (edited 11-30-2017).]

IP: Logged
Blacktree
Member
Posts: 20490
From: Central Florida
Registered: Dec 2001


Feedback score:    (11)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 350
Rate this member

Report this Post11-30-2017 10:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm no lawyer, but have been using the Hella 90mm headlights for about 10 years now. I've never been pulled over for it. That said, we don't have vehicle inspections in Florida. So I don't know if you'd be flagged for it.

The Hella 90mm lights are the same height off the ground as stock. They have a good beam pattern, and good light output. And the lamp housings are DOT compliant. So theoretically, they should keep the inspectors happy. I can tell you they are MUCH better than the Munson style lights. Been there, done that.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 11-30-2017).]

IP: Logged
Fiero Vice
Member
Posts: 618
From: Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 2015


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-30-2017 10:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero ViceSend a Private Message to Fiero ViceEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:
I can tell you they are MUCH better than the Munson style lights. Been there, done that.


What about stock? Is 90mm headlights better?

IP: Logged
theogre
Member
Posts: 29475
From: USA
Registered: Mar 99


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 551
Rate this member

Report this Post12-01-2017 03:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fiero Vice:
As usual, excellent advice, Theogre!

Also, thanks for the excellent resource of info at our fingertips. Much appreciated for what you do for the Fiero community, Theogre!

Out of curious, what about 90mm pop up headlights? Is it illegal in the states? What about Pennsylvania if you know?

I plan to install one & wanted to have both low & high beams on at once when turning to high beams in pitch dark areas. I'm having a hard time to find any info if it's illegal in the state of PA.
You mean 90mm Projector lamp sets?

In short, PA and others... Munson kit Covers aren't allowed and performs poorly at best but often passes most inspection etc because have "DOT Legal" bulbs. If NHTSA or PA did any real light testings like some other places Munson kit could fail for poor light output. NHTSA only test HL etc when investigating for a Recall. States rarely or never test most items and Cops/Inspectors just look for correct DOT markings.

You likely can find "DOT Legal" Projectors w/ all markings but isn't a PnP "upgrade" because need to mod HL lifts for a start.
Regardless of bulb used, mod'ing HL lift w/o problems isn't simple. Common problem is most cut out 2 main "bearing points" where lift hits the door bearing strips. Missing that then door and lift hits anywhere and can do damage for either or both.

Note that Many Projector units come from China etc and have Same big problem for "E-code" lights... Many sold thru Ebay and others are fakes and often missing most DOT markings. Might have DOT on the front to fool many buyers and even to cops/inspectors but little or nothing else screams fake product and often performs poorly and won't last.

Long answer... If you look at FMVSS 108 (PDF) and PA lighting law... much is a very close copy w/ edits for PA use.

Problem is most can see but can't understand because FMVSS and PA lighting laws/rules uses SAE docs and even when doesn't just hard to read by most of the public. Even lawyers w/o engineer/tech background have a hard time reading laws/rules like this.

To make more headaches, SEMA.org pushed aftermarket HL upgrades for general public in ~2005. SEMA.org push to help Hella etc high $ upgrades but This is why you now have so many cheap/fake products flooding the market. Joe Blow at corner have no clue how bad this problem is and not just in the US either. EU Canada and many others have similar problems. Fake lamps, Pushing HID/LED in Halogen Shells, and many more.
Example: www.autoexpress.co.uk Illegal HID conversion kits explained YT Published on Jan 20, 2010

Many vendors etc hind as above but many are in other countries and don't even try to hide and let buyers w/ no clue have all the problems. NHTSA and others can and does recall aftermarket parts but each recall is a drop in an ocean of problems.
IP: Logged
VanGTP5000
Member
Posts: 643
From: Sunny South Florida, USA
Registered: Feb 2017


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-01-2017 09:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for VanGTP5000Click Here to Email VanGTP5000Send a Private Message to VanGTP5000Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:


You likely can find "DOT Legal" Projectors w/ all markings but isn't a PnP "upgrade" because need to mod HL lifts for a start.
Regardless of bulb used, mod'ing HL lift w/o problems isn't simple. Common problem is most cut out 2 main "bearing points" where lift hits the door bearing strips. Missing that then door and lift hits anywhere and can do damage for either or both.



Can you please explain this. I didn't quite understand what you mean. But I would like to.

Thanks Ogre,
-Van
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
Wraith177
Member
Posts: 52
From: Parker, CO USA
Registered: Nov 2017


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-01-2017 10:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Wraith177Send a Private Message to Wraith177Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ogre, as always, you are a wealth of information. I probably will just end up biting the bullet, and get the headlight set from embrace racing. Those look super cool, still flush so the lady likes them, and they will give me excellent lighting (though in all fairness I’d do better with a candle). Unless I can find some stock headlight mounts and motors for cheap, and just slap some halo ring led lights.

------------------
This signature adds .5 bhp.
When in doubt, gun it.
84 2m4 —in progress to— 84 2m6sc

IP: Logged
Spadesluck
Member
Posts: 1758
From: New Mexico
Registered: Jul 2016


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-01-2017 12:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SpadesluckSend a Private Message to SpadesluckEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am not sure if Embrace Racing is still doing them. I tried contacting him through PM and never heard anything back. I have yet to email him though. I will try but if you hear something let us know. I do know when I emailed him when i got his race spec hood he had great communication, so it may just boil down to my own laziness and not actually emailing him. ha

[This message has been edited by Spadesluck (edited 12-01-2017).]

IP: Logged
Phirewire
Member
Posts: 1488
From: Hamburg, PA
Registered: May 2012


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-02-2017 12:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PhirewireClick Here to Email PhirewireSend a Private Message to PhirewireEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Spadesluck:

I am not sure if Embrace Racing is still doing them. I tried contacting him through PM and never heard anything back. I have yet to email him though. I will try but if you hear something let us know. I do know when I emailed him when i got his race spec hood he had great communication, so it may just boil down to my own laziness and not actually emailing him. ha



Last I heard from chris was a few months ago through email and that even took a few weeks for a response. He has been busy with his work life I believe.


As far as OP goes if they are Munson lights i'd surly trade you a factory setup for them.
IP: Logged
theogre
Member
Posts: 29475
From: USA
Registered: Mar 99


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 551
Rate this member

Report this Post12-02-2017 04:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by VanGTP5000:
Can you please explain this. I didn't quite understand what you mean. But I would like to.
PnP = Plug and Play/Pray (Both are used in computer work.)
HL "bearing" points... Hood open. HL in up postion. Looks a bit odd because camera is close and line up only 1 set of door "bearings."

Two more "backup" points are on the trim wraps around the bulb etc. Can see them in above pic, trim @ front outside main lift point but only right one hits the door. Can see a little contact on the door too. Sometime both or neither hits.

Many lift mods simple cut up the lift bearing points and never bothered to fix them.
Door bottom is just fiberglass and many lift mods have metal parts that damage the door.
IP: Logged
VanGTP5000
Member
Posts: 643
From: Sunny South Florida, USA
Registered: Feb 2017


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-02-2017 10:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for VanGTP5000Click Here to Email VanGTP5000Send a Private Message to VanGTP5000Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by VanGTP5000:
Can you please explain this. I didn't quite understand what you mean. But I would like to.
PnP = Plug and Play/Pray (Both are used in computer work.)
HL "bearing" points... Hood open. HL in up postion. Looks a bit odd because camera is close and line up only 1 set of door "bearings."

Two more "backup" points are on the trim wraps around the bulb etc. Can see them in above pic, trim @ front outside main lift point but only right one hits the door. Can see a little contact on the door too. Sometime both or neither hits.

Many lift mods simple cut up the lift bearing points and never bothered to fix them.


Door bottom is just fiberglass and many lift mods have metal parts that damage the door.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for the explanation!
-Van
IP: Logged

next newest topic | next oldest topic

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock