Seems that the fuel pressure regulator that I purchased, has a blown diaphragm. Allowing fuel to get sucked through the vacuum line according to a mechanic I had here.

I need to get one ordered, and delivered ASAP . I need to get it installed before he returns to continue diagnostics. The Series III is a return-less fuel system.

I could definitely use some recommendations!

You could keep it simple and just cut one out of a series 2 rail. There are a lot of pictures from people who have done this sort of thing.

quote Originally posted by Domtech: You could keep it simple and just cut one out of a series 2 rail. There are a lot of pictures from people who have done this sort of thing.

I was looking more for a new after market, that is adjustable. Also, the Series II is setup for a return line, can that be adapted?

There is still a return line with a "return-less" system, its just by the filter/tank. Isn't that how yours is set up?

Adjustable isn't that necessary if you are using a factory regulator.
You would set it up just like in the picture, fuel comes out of the tank to the filter, from the filter to the regulator, and from the regulator back to the tank, with a tee before the regulator to feed the rail.

There is no need for an adjustable FPR, unless you just want the bling-bling factor.

That said, Summit and JEGS both sell quality products.

http://fuelab.com/products/...pressure-regulators/

https://www.summitracing.co...ue-52501-2/overview/

[This message has been edited by VanGTP5000 (edited 10-14-2017).]

quote Originally posted by VanGTP5000: http://fuelab.com/products/...pressure-regulators/ https://www.summitracing.co...ue-52501-2/overview/

Thank you for the links, as, believe it or not, I actually knew a lot of people sold "quality products" The first link looked promising, but I am still not sure what I need to get. Everything I seem to find mentions a return line, and I do not know if that can be bipassed. As mentioned, I have a series III and have a single fuel line coming from the tank. I would like to install a regulator that will use just this single stainless steel line, instead of the added time and effort to drop the tank and hook a second line up to the tank.

quote Originally posted by olejoedad: Summit and JEGS both sell quality products.

First Joe, you have probably been one of the most helpful people during my swap. I thank you for pointing me in the right direction, and offering advice. In this instance, not so much

I am not looking to be "spoon fed", however I am not a mechanic, and could use some specific advice.

It would be the same as if someone told me that that they wanted to upgrade the memory on their computer, and I told them Amazon and Newegg " both sell quality products".

To purchase memory, you would need to know if it is DDR2, DDR3, DDR4, the amount of memory on each DIMM, the number of dimm slots, and the maximum supported memory by your motherboard. Then factor in the latency timing, if its overclocable or not (and then if your motherboard supports overclocking the memory timings or not), plus the latency timing that your BIOS can support. Also if you wanted active cooling, RGB support, and the height of the DIMM risers to be able to clear the cooling tower depending on motherboard placement, and if they are using water or air cooling. Just a blank link to a place that sells memory would do you no good.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 10-14-2017).]

I think we might have discovered the problem in that case. True "return-less" systems have the regulator in the tank, and dump the excess pressure there.

If you really have no return line from the regulator to the tank then you have been deadheading a pump that wasn't meant to be used like that.

What regulator did you have?

I had installed this one from Amazon.



It has a single input, single output, and the port for the vacuum line. There is NO hookup for a return line, so in my case that was perfect.

It shows 52 PSI on the gauge when the car is running, and I took that as factual. However when the mechanic was here, noticed it never fluctuated when blipping the throttle He shut the car off, sucked on the vacuum line, and could taste fuel vapor. He explained that it had a bad diaphragm, and was probably not supplying enough fuel, as well as fuel possible traveling into the intake through the vacuum line.

Are you sure that that regulator wasn't meant to regulate pressure returning to the tank?
In the questions section the seller says it is for a return system.
If that's the case, then I bet that what the regulator is actually doing is regulating the pump outlet pressure to be some set amount above rail pressure. which happens to result in a nice constant rail pressure and a pump being overworked at 100+ psi.
I think that it should have been set up like in the picture above, regulating the excess pressure to bleed off back into the tank.

EDIT: I found you a nice diagram of how people generally do it:

The image earlier in the thread is like the fist one in this image, but with the rail on a tee from the supply. That way functions the same as the 3 port regulator.

[This message has been edited by Domtech (edited 10-14-2017).]

As Domtech said, return-less only means that once the fuel hits the fuel rail, it does not return to the tank. Returnless setups almost always have a bypass regulator unless it is one of the newer pwm setups that adjust voltage to maintain fuel pressure.

Can you draw a diagram for how your regulator is hooked up?

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: Can you draw a diagram for how your regulator is hooked up?

I altered the above diagram to show how my system is currently set up.

Yep I'm 99% percent sure that that is the wrong way to use that regulator.
I read back thru your build thread and noticed that when you first set it up it was leaking fuel, I'm not surprised since you are running your pump at max pressure.
If your regulator blew the diaphragm it is probably just due to being used at double its designed pressure. If you buy another of the same one and hook it up correctly it should work just fine.
I'm not sure why you would need to drop the tank to add a return line unless you cut it off of the fuel sender?

Yeah, only carb setups that need 6-10psi should be plumbed like that (and they are paired with pumps that have a max pressure around 15psi). I would also be concerned that you hurt the pump running it w/o a bypass regulator.

I wouldn't change the pump yet, but if you start having fuel pressure issues then I would change it.

Well, it looks as if the mechanic that hooked up the FPR did it wrong. Doing it before the rail, and not after. I purchased a new Regulator, and have a mechanic coming over an a half hour to have a go at getting it all corrected.

I still do not know how this is going to work. The series III fuel rail system does not have an "outflow"..... so it can not be hooked up as in the diagram above.

Many thanks for the diagrams and all of the advice!

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 10-18-2017).]

quote Originally posted by JohnWPB: Well, it looks as if the mechanic that hooked up the FPR did it wrong. Doing it before the rail, and not after. I purchased a new Regulator, and have a mechanic coming over an a half hour to have a go at getting it all corrected. I still do not know how this is going to work. The series III fuel rail system does not have an "outflow"..... so it can not be hooked up as in the diagram above. Many thanks for the diagrams and all of the advice!

Two choices:
1. Switch to a Series II fuel rail.
2. Get a remote mount a regulator with 3 fuel ports (a hacked up S2 fuel rail/regulator will work for this). 1 fuel port is the supply from the pump. 2nd is the regulated pressure feed to the S3 fuel rail. 3rd is the bypass/return back to the fuel tank.

Edit:
Actually, there are a couple more:
3. Run an aftermarket fuel rail setup that will allow you to mount your regulator on the outfeed of the fuel rail.
4. Install a LS1 Vette fuel filter w/ built in regulator (acts like a remote mount regulator described above), but this does not have a vacuum/boost reference. To do this the fuel injector flow rate tables in the ecm will need to be changed, but I am not sure the Series 2 ECM supports it. Good question for Darth.

Here is where I mounted it for my LS4 (which is a stock returnless fuel system with a single inlet fuel rail)


With the vacuum/boost referenced regulator (Series II), the delta between the fuel rail pressure and the intake manifold pressure is nearly constant. As the manifold see vacuum, fuel pressure drops. As the intake manifold sees boost, fuel rail pressure increases. With this setup, the flow rates for the injectors is close to constant bases on manifold vacuum/pressure.

With a non-vacuum/boost referenced regulator (Series III), the fuel rail pressure will be fixed and not change. However, the intake manifold will still see vacuum and boost, so the delta between the fuel rail pressure and manifold pressure will be variable. So under this condition the injector flow rate tables will not be constant. They will be higher under low loads, and smaller under high loads/boost.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 10-18-2017).]

You just need to ad a tee into the line like shown in the photo earlier in this thread.
Since posting images here is such a pain I shared a diagram on google images here.

quote Originally posted by Domtech: You just need to ad a tee into the line like shown in the photo earlier in this thread. Since posting images here is such a pain I shared a diagram on google images here.

Yes, that will work too!

quote Originally posted by Domtech: You just need to ad a tee into the line like shown in the photo earlier in this thread. Since posting images here is such a pain I shared a diagram on google images here.

I am gonna steer away from the LS fuel filter..... throwing in programming the computer in is just another added thing to do.

I like the idea of the T to the rail and to the regulator.



Simple and efficient. I really like that I can hide everything underneath, and have a single fuel line coming up to the rail, verses switching to a series II rail, and having lines all over the place.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 10-20-2017).]

I went with PRJ aftermarket Fuel Rails for my Series III setup to avoid using the stock fuel rail setup.

I have one of these to make my own stuff

https://www.mastercool.com/...ic-flaring-tool-set/

quote Originally posted by VanGTP5000: I went with PRJ aftermarket Fuel Rails for my Series III setup to avoid using the stock fuel rail setup.

I would surmise, that you would still need a fuel pressure regulator, no matter who's rails you use.....

quote Originally posted by Domtech:

My Series III has a set of Aeromotive fuel rails from Summit Racing with the factory FPR plumbed like the picture above. I have about 5,000 miles with this setup, works great. Doesn't look to bad either.

quote Originally posted by JohnWPB: I would surmise, that you would still need a fuel pressure regulator, no matter who's rails you use.....

Yes...I sent you a few links above to the Fuelab Fuel Pressure regulator I am using with my PRJ Fuel Rails.

Van

[This message has been edited by VanGTP5000 (edited 10-22-2017).]

Thanks for all the info! Now that I have a fuel pressure regulator, I am open to suggestions on fuel line. I have found quite a few different types on Amazon, and prefer to have a stainless steel braided line. All of them I seem to find say they will not work with fuel injected systems. What could possibly be the difference between a carburetor and fuel injected system when you're talking about fuel line? I thought it was kind of strange.

quote Spectre flex fuel line is not for use with fuel injection systems or E85 fuels.

Performance (29410) 3/8" x 10' Stainless Steel Flex Fuel Line is the one I am looking at.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 10-23-2017).]

quote Originally posted by JohnWPB: What could possibly be the difference between a carburetor and fuel injected system when you're talking about fuel line?

It is described pretty well in the first answer on that amazon page but I'll give my explanation:
Basically, there are 2 grades of fuel line, carb line and EFI line. EFI line handles higher pressure.
Additionally there is submersible and non submersible line. Submersible is required for in tank uses and isn't as common.
Most new EFI line is made to handle high alcohol fuels and e85, but some older stuff will break down over time with it.

Since you only need to re-plumb the area near the filter, I would just go to a local part store and get some rubber fuel injection line and hose clamps.

The stainless braided stuff requires expensive AN fittings at each end. If you want to go that route it is probably best to order from somewhere like summit, but here's an example that I've used from amazon.

Thanks for all the info! I was using my phone while on lunch today to look it up. The mobile app does not show the questions and answers, unless you start to expand sections.

I will just go with standard fuel rated line then, and be done with it. I ordered a package of 3 Tee's that come in various sizes to set up the fuel system. I am in the hopes that this was the root of my problem with it showing extremely high fuel for both the Short Term, and Long Term from the ECU.

BTW, I ordered the same regulator that I have on the car now, that was hooked up incorrectly and blew the diaphragm. This was done by the mechanic that I had help me with the swap. Honestly I did not know any better myself, but I was in the hopes that he would have

I prefer to use PTFE lined hose for the fuel system. One of their many benefits is the overall bulk of the hose is less for a given ID.

One caution with braided stainless hoses, they are like putting sand paper in your engine bay. They will scratch and eventually gouge anything that touches them. When I use them, I put heat shrink over them where they could touch or rub anything.

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: One caution with braided stainless hoses, they are like putting sand paper in your engine bay. They will scratch and eventually gouge anything that touches them. When I use them, I put heat shrink over them where they could touch or rub anything.

I used the braided stainless lines from a Transport Van. I had to buy two sets because the first set I purchased on the forum where not in pristine condition and I was afraid of what fieroguru described above. I believe I still have the original set buried in my storage container somewhere. I never thought about shrink wrapping them as a fix...

Van

So just to make sure I am on the right path before I start ordering parts...the picture posted above by Domtech that shows the "Deadhead system", does that work for L32 with returnless style rail? If so, are there any disadvantages to it? I am planning on getting a 3 port regulator with the inlet running to the fuel filter, and outlet running to the rail. Then return going back to the tank and a vacuum reference. I like the clean look of this setup and the fact you don't need to use a T, but it seems like everyone always leans towards the T...which made me question if the system I describe actually works.

The 3 port regulators are just like 2 ports with a built in tee. The way you described plumbing it should work fine.

This image is what I have, and it works perfect. As you can see, there is no return from the rail itself. Your fuel pump pushes the fuel through the supply line, and the regulator keeps "back pressure" to the pressure you set. The rest of the fuel goes through the regulator, and back to the Fieros fuel tank, as the stock system is set up to do.