With Brexit in the works this may not be very useful, but there is a UK supplier of Fiero parts that claims 3 day delivery to British customers anyway, and their hose prices seem reasonable: shopeddies at https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/shopeddies. They list Centric hoses, and while those are typically good quality, one of my new Centric front hoses would not seal even with multiple new GM copper washers. Stuff happens..
And I chose loosening your banjo bolt just in case the bleed screw might be sealed by hidden rust or debris (you never know).
best wishes!

Well, some time before brexit is finished and UK actually is out of EU, but strangely enough it says " Item location: United States, United States " on the fieroparts at shopeddies.

But I tried to search on ebay.co.uk and choosed "weithin european union", and found stuff that I did NOT find on ebay.com, which is pretty strange..

For example: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/...84-1987/400835404757

..But I think I prefere to get AC delco rubber hoses from US instead then.

Not sure how different '88 hose are, but I'm about to remove a set this weekend that have been on the car four years and done maybe 50 miles. They're no use to me as I'm changing brakes and going for stainless lines, eventually.
If they are any use, you can have them for the cost of postage, I would only be throwing them away.

Iain

That was very kind of you, but after looking it up it seem like the 88-hoses are very different, actually in both ends

Today was another Fiero-day ..or not all day, had to take care of the kids most of the day, but in the end of the day i could start top remove the wheels and disassemble the front brakes.

First I tried to remove the banjos, and pus back the pistons.. no no, stuck.. I had to remove everything.

Started with the left one, and removed the caliper, then I had to put it back again to be able to push out the piston ..with the piston out and the caliper on the workbench I could see that
the dust boot was seriously broken, I also noticed that it was this phenolic(?) pistons in the caliper, and that it got stuck hard if I pushed it in.

First I thought the problem was that it was oxide in the groove for the seal, so I cleaned that, then it worked a bit, but then got stuck again.

I had to sand out oxide from the pot, and clean the pistons with fine sandpaper before it finally moved easy.

When it did I cleaned everything, remounted the old seal, the piston, the broken dustboot and mounted the caliper on the car again, filled the brakefluid and called for my girl so she could help me with the air-bleeding
and everything seemed to work, it stopped the wheel, and then was loose again, just as it should be.

Then I did the same procedure on the other wheel, it was the same, oxide both in the groove and the pot, but here the bleeding nipple was round, so i had to remove it with force, and then I didnt have a new one,
this size (M10x1.5) seem to be very uncommon so none of the shops near me had any home.. what to do.. I used a file and made it one size smaller ..got some help with the air bleeding again, and everything worked,
now I put the wheel back and the car back on the ground, moved the 9-5 Aero that was in the way and took it for a test drive.

It worked fine, the brakes is not on anymore, the brakes is not very effective by todays standards but it is a car from 1987 and I readed that they wherent that impressive as new either, so I guess it is like it should be.

Now I have to go back to bilprovningen and do a check again, if I do it within 1 month they just check what failed the last time, and both the light and the brakes should be ok now.


..Yes.. the test drive..

This ewas the first time I drove the car "for fun", so I took it to a curvy road to see how it was, well, im not 100% friend with it yet but it sure is a sport car, it handles pretty well and the power is ok (but I wonder how it will be with better gasonline, the gas in the tank is over 10 years old..), its a bit hard to shift fast, but I guess that is because the problem with the selector wire. Also sometimes when shifting down it make a exhaust boom, just like my motorcycle.. not very common on fuel injected engines.. should I worry ? ..I also have problems when shifting from 5 to 4, if I am unlucky I get this bad sound because I hit R by accident.. Its not that I am not used to manual cars, nearly all of my cars been manual and most have had the same layout on the gears, its just that if I drive on 5th gear on one of my celicas and pull the lever to me it aleways go directly to 4, if i want R I have to push the lever to the right. ..I dunno if it is because of the selector wire, or if it is by design.

But, I'm pretty sure I would be quicker around most tracks if i was driving my Celica GT, not to mention the GT-Four.. but I think the 9-5 Aero would be slower, even if it have 250hp and the sport chassi/brakes/seats.. even if you make a standard car sportier (i.e Aero) its still built as a big heavy car made for transporting families.

[This message has been edited by Repulsiv (edited 06-08-2018).]

Fiero brakes are very unhappy when sitting for a long time, especially with older brake fluid that has absorbed water from the air. So glad they work better now! When working properly, Fiero brakes can stop powerfully enough to lock up 205/15 front tires.

Yes, the Getrag reverse gate is placed right behind the fifth gear gate. While there is a spring that will push the gearshift lever towards the 3/4 gate, it's not very strong. Changing your gearbox oil to syncromesh might help with shifting, and don't be surprised if your clutch slave cylinder fails fairly soon.

After your car passes it's inspection, iff'n it was me I'd service all four calipers, and read the posts here on the Getrag's clutch hydraulics. And yes, it's wise to replace the bad caliper parts.

Fiero's are an absolute hoot to drive, aren't they?

Now I have put it thru another inspection, and it passed! finally roadleagal ! ..it was over 10 years ago last time.

HOWEVER.. when I ewas going to drive it home it did not start, or well, the starter did not work, when I tried to start I heard a click and i saw that something draw power on the meter, but the engine didn't rotate at all.

I tried many times, never worked.. I tried to hit on the starter if the brushes was stuck, no.. finally I got help push-starting the car and it started and I could drive home.

When I got home I turned off and tried to start again, to my surprise the starter motor worked this time, but the car did not start, I released the key and tried again.. same.. then I tried a third time and
I was back at the same problem as before, no rotation of the engine..

What the..

Anyone know what it can be ? or is just the starter motor toast ?

Older starter design is pretty universal and simple, so if you know how to service them or know someone who does, yours could be repaired. If your large battery cable connections have no oxide, then my guess is the most likely problems could be, as you thought, sticking brushes or the solenoid switch contacts. Repairing is mostly cleaning/lubricating, and brushes. Wish Fiero parts availability was easier for you but brush substitution may be possible.
Do you think the starter gear is not sticking? Maybe just putting grease/oil onto the starter's gear shaft would help? After 10 years some parts could stick sometimes, of course.
Sorry you are still having problems.

I looked it up in the haynes-book, and realised that its constructed in a way so you can easy replace only the solenoid if thats the problem, uou usally cannot on a european or japanese starter, or you CAN, but its not easy and noone sell the parts as spares..

I will try to find out exactly what the problem is, I clearly heard the solenoid was working, so either id did not make contact, or it was the brushes, I also tried several times, both times.

..And talking about that, today I was out and fixed other things and decided to see if the starter still was broken.. but it worked perfectly, trird to start twice, and the engine started directly.

I will try more times, but I start to suspect that it was brecause of the rain last time ? ..Anyway I probably remove it, disassemle it, clean it and lubricate everything.

Good, bright metal connections are very important at the solenoid switch and brush/armature contacts. Massive current within the starter assembly and only 12 volts to push it.

This is strange.

I have tried to start the car several times now, randomly *one* of those things happens:

- The starter click but does not turn the engine.
- The starter works, but the engine does not start, not even one ignition. (and I can smell gasonline)
- The car start directly.

..If I wait some hours and try again, any of those can happen.

I cannot really understand why this happens..

quote Originally posted by Repulsiv: This is strange. I have tried to start the car several times now, randomly *one* of those things happens: - The starter click but does not turn the engine. - The starter works, but the engine does not start, not even one ignition. (and I can smell gasonline) - The car start directly. ..If I wait some hours and try again, any of those can happen. I cannot really understand why this happens..

Electronics are wonderful my first thing with weird situations is always power and ground check all through the car.

^^ +1 Especially the engine ground connections (on both ends of the head on the firewall side- 3 grounds iirc) .

Well, I already had a lot of oxide problems (sidemarkers, brakelight, several indicator lights in the panel) so it could be the same, I'll try to find the groundpoints and clean them and put some protection there.

Just havent had any time for some serious fiero-time lately, hope I can give it some time soon.

Its ironic that I cannot use it now when its finally roadlegal. My plan was to use it to work the days when I dont have to drive the kids to kindergarden..
(I have a very nice and curvy road to work, so its nice to have a fun car to go there.. thats the main reason I bought the 9-5 Aero, its a safe family-transporter but still fun to drive, even if its not a sportscar..)

[This message has been edited by Repulsiv (edited 06-29-2018).]

quote Originally posted by Repulsiv: Then I removed one sparkplug, it was wet, I blew it dry and asked my gf to crank the engine, and I had spark, even if it was weak I think...

No need to guess.

It's pointless checking for spark across the minuscule gap of a regular spark plug. That's not wide enough at atmospheric pressure outside of the combustion chamber. A healthy spark will have no problem jumping a 1/4" gap to ground... and it'll do it with a loud "snap".

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 06-29-2018).]

Now I have brand new bridgestone turanza tyres on the front wheels, yay!



And I also got some stupid idea to see if the konis in front would look better if I cleaned them and used rubbing on them.. yes they did



..Just have to clean everything else too :/

DIdn't have time to try to find the ignition or starter problems.. maybe tomorrow.

------------------
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!

Misfiring could be a simple fix; measuring and replacing any suspect high voltage components would be a good idea. Spark plug gap is 0.045". High resistance in the HV system can damage the ICM and coil, BTW.
Over time, the distributor pick-up coil mounted on the flat aluminum base plate can cause problems. They are inexpensive (under USD $14 in the USA) and replacing means removing the distributor's drive gear and pin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5QRK9VZwcM
http://www.fierofocus.com/a...s/tt-pickupcoil.html
It's a good idea to renew the electronic-grade heat transfer silicon grease between the black ICM module and the aluminum plate too. I will be adding a computer heat sink under the ICM as suggested by Patrick on here, as we can often get over 32 * in summer. Heat is the killer of electronics

Its just so strange that the engine ran perfectly before, no misfires and it started instantly, evne the first start after its beens tanding still for years was instant.

If I remove the distributor, are there more than one way to place it ? ..I know some distributors are like that, so you have to zero the engine and then put it back in the right position, some can just be placed in one way.

When I removed the distributor cap I could see it was pretty rusty inside :/

Fluid moving through a previously stored car can move deposits that have formed in place over a long time. Engine and car vibration can damage plastic, rubber and other material that have deteriorated while sitting, even if at first they seem fine. Even covered cars can suffer from condensation inside. So I've found anyway.
Many of us here have progressively gone through our fuel, electrical and braking systems when we bring a Fiero back on the road. Fortunately, the repairs aren't difficult, and the parts are, for the most part, available and not very costly. We can help, and you should be able to enjoy driving you car while doing the repairs after the initial problems are sorted.
All in all, Fiero's are a lot of fun to own..

quote Originally posted by Rexgirl: I will be adding a computer heat sink under the ICM as suggested by Patrick on here, as we can often get over 32 * in summer. Heat is the killer of electronics.

I did that mod ten years ago, using an already old ICM... and the same ICM is still going strong. Originally it was being used in an '86 GT, but I eventually transferred the whole distributor over to my '88 Formula. I don't know why more people don't add a heat sink to prolong the life of their ICM. It works!

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-01-2018).]

Now I just really dont know what I should do next, the engine misfires but that doesn't mean that it is a ignition problem, it can be fuel too.

I already have swapping the fuelfilter on my todolist, and airfilter, but im not so sure that would help.

I could order a new cap/roto/cables, but im not so sure that would help either.

The next step probably will be to ensure the grounding, does anyone have a pic of where the groundcables are attached ? as I said I only found one, and that didnt look that nice,
however those are easy to buy local so I will replace them anyway.

My distributor looked like the one in the other thread inside, but I cannot see how the rust would create those problems.

I also going to order sparkplugs (when I order from rockauto) because they probably need to be changed anyway, but I cannot see how this problem could just happen like that if it is the plugs.
Btw it was denso-plugs in the car now, and my dad said when he serviced the car the mechanic failed to change the front bank plugs, he said you had to remove the engine to do that, I know
he was wrong, but that means that three plugs are reeeally old now..

I also going to change both the glycol (because I dont know what type it is in it now, and its ooold) and the brakefluid (because its ooold), but I want the engine to run nicely before I do other things.
Probably I would change the transmission oil too, but I havent been able to find any GM syncromesh here, but thats a later problem.

------------------
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!

quote Originally posted by Repulsiv: Hmm, after searching the forum and reading this thread.. Engine to chassis ground strap? ..I will try grounding FIRST..

This is the thread for grounds... EVERYONE with a V6 please Read

It's too bad that thread didn't have a more descriptive heading for anyone using the search function.

I just went out and looked for ground-cables..

The one front right I found before, it exist but is in bad shape.

The one rear right is simply not existing, i find the bolt it should be on, but there is no cable.

The left one I didn't find, I found one going between the hinge and then into a bunch of cables, but nothing between engine and chassi, not sure it it should be or if I found the right one.

It sure could be the source of problems here, one groundcable in miserable order, and one missing..


I'll try to buy some tomorrow, unfortunatly the nearest store doesnt seem to have any long cables, they have the one front right, but not sure if 35cm is enough for the one rear right.. hmm.

In worst case I have to make cables, at work we have a (expensive) pressing tool for this, just have to buy some cable and cableshoes first.

[This message has been edited by Repulsiv (edited 07-02-2018).]

Here is a pic (thank you Bloozberry) of your ECM and some sensor grounds. They are on the driver's side over the starter and clutch arm.

BTW, since you ordering from Rockauto, it might be wise to buy a 'Distributor Pickup Coil' as well. It is the white disc with the green and white wire leads pictured here

Today I bought two groundstraps..

First I replaced the one between the hinge and the engine.. a bit difference..



I also replaced the one between the blockm and the battery.. I would have liked a cable here but the only thing i could buy was a braid.



I dont have to tell you about all the problems I got then I first dropped a nut down in the engine and had to find it, and also destroyed the threads on the battery adapter so I had to modifiy it to be able to use it :P ..I solved the problems.

..Well, did it help ?

NO.

The engine still have big problems starting, and when it do start it misfires..

HOWEVER..

The old groundstraps where bad, because now the starter motor spins faster than EVER, the front lights are brither and so are the interior lights.

..So it was a good thing to fix anyway.

I took apart the distributor again to clean it, and took a photo of it.. doesnt look very nice..



Rexgirl: why do I need a new pickupcoil ? ..it sure doesnt look very good when i looked at it, but is it a common problem ?

I also nothed something else, sometimes when I try to start the rpm-gauge does not move at all, and it it suddenly ignites I can see that it jump up.

Does the meter and the ignintion control take the rpm signal from the same place ? ..then I could be onto something here..

quote Originally posted by Repulsiv: I also nothed something else, sometimes when I try to start the rpm-gauge does not move at all, and it it suddenly ignites I can see that it jump up. Does the meter and the ignintion control take the rpm signal from the same place ? ..then I could be onto something here.

If nothing else, you've probably got poor/corroded electrical connections between the ICM, ignition coil, pickup coil etc. Take the connections apart, clean them up, and apply plenty of dielectric grease.

I actually have cleaned a lot of connectors to sensors and stuff, but most are some kind of superseal-variant and those seem to protect very well.

But I wonder where the signal come from.. from the distributor ?

By the way I had the car on idle a long time (at least 10min) today and after that it ran a bit smoother.. however the idle is very high, 1800rpm, and if it misfire its even higher for a while.

quote Originally posted by Repulsiv: I actually have cleaned a lot of connectors to sensors and stuff, but most are some kind of superseal-variant and those seem to protect very well.

They're 30 years old... don't assume all of them are still completely sealed and/or making perfect electrical contact.

Did you bother re-checking your spark as advised? I saw nothing posted.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: It's pointless checking for spark across the minuscule gap of a regular spark plug. That's not wide enough at atmospheric pressure outside of the combustion chamber. A healthy spark will have no problem jumping a 1/4" gap to ground... and it'll do it with a loud "snap".

You can do what people suggest here, or not... and have this thread go on and on beyond the four pages it's already at.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-03-2018).]

I cannot do that alone, I will try it when I have someone else that can turn the key for me

Yes, the pick up coil certainly can fail, which is why I mentioned it. I replaced mine at 70 k miles.

Also, the black ignition module in the distributor is a weak point due to heat, ozone and moisture. Your module's two attaching screws are Incredibly rusty and they *ground* the module. Clean ALL the rust off those screws AND the metal tubes they pass through in the ignition module! And of course, put new electronic silicone heat transfer grease between the module and the aluminum base plate.
You may need to replace the ignition module but if yours is original it may be worth trying to salvage. Consider replacing the screws too, if possible.

Other very common failure parts: Ignition coil, clutch slave cylinder, fuel pump, water pump and suspension ball joint rubber boots (the B.J. need to be lubricated). If you read through the forum, you will learn a lot.
BTW: I suggest you listen to Patrick, he's one of the experts here.

quote Originally posted by Rexgirl: BTW: I suggest you listen to Patrick, he's one of the experts here.

Geez, don't put that kind of pressure on me. I'm just one of many many people here (including yourself) who know a few things about these cars.

I have been reading up on the ignition system now, and just as said here the pickupcoil and ignitor module seem to be weak points.. Also oxide in those connectors.

So today I opened the distributor and disconnected the pickup coil, this coil reeally look bad, and also the connectors.. wow, im surprised the engine started at all..



I cleaned everything very well, both the superseal connectors (no oxide there that i could see, but anyway..) and then the pickup coil connector.. this was not very easy
but finally I cleaned them and I measured with an ohmmeter, no contact with ground and 820ohms over it, thats perfect due to my haynes-book.

So it seem to be ok even if it look like sh*t.. however, since they are prone to fail and it looks like it do i will do as rexgirl suggested and buy one..

I also cleaned the connectors to the ignition coul, again they looked fine but cleaned anyway.

When all connectors was cleaned i cleaned the area under the ignition module, the paste under it was rock hard and it took some time to get it away, then i put some fresh
paste that i usally use for CPU's under it and put it back. ..back with the cam and the cables and then off with the cap again to put back the rotor that I forgot ..then when everything was
mounted I tried to start again.

It did NOT heltp, however the car reacts different now.

Before if I tried to start it would usally have the needle on the rpm meeter on zero, and then sometimes pop up to ~800rpm (while cranking) and if it was at zero there was no ignitions at all, when it jumped up it could ignite now and then.

Now however, the needle is at least on 800rpm all the time, and the engine ignites pretty often - but does nto start.. and strangely enough - the needle jumps up really high now and then, sometimes so high it hits the stop.

Very strange.

..Tomorrow I might get some help from my gf, so I can finally try if it can make sparks over a longer gap.. and I readed somwhere that there was some filter for the rpm meter on the ignition coil that could create problems and could be disconnected, just have to find where I readed it..

Since your black Ignition Module sends a signal to the tachometer, and then on to the ECM, your IgnitionControlModule is at least working partially now. If you cleaned all the rust off the Ignition Module's mounting screws and it's grounding tubes, it's still possible that the ICM is failing or yes, the tach filter is not operating correctly.
Here is the location of the tach filter (thanks Derrangedsheep) :


and here is the tach filter schematic:


With all that rust and damage, you could also purchase a replacement distributor from eBay if you wish. You want the one with the star shaped reluctor (Cardone (A1) Industries 84-1633 Cardone Select Distributor, I think?). Anyone?