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Push Button gear selector on an Automatic....How? by JohnWPB
Started on: 08-14-2017 07:01 PM
Replies: 19 (825 views)
Last post by: Keel on 08-18-2017 06:43 AM
JohnWPB
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Report this Post08-14-2017 07:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am designing a custom console, and trying to reach around the shifter, or see through it to operate the touch screen I am placing there is a hassle. I want to remove the manual gear selector from the main console all together.

From what I understand, a linear motor on my 4T65EHD transmission on my 3800 swap, would be the answer.

I would need the standard [P R N D 2 1], so basically 6 steps / positions based on which of the 6 switches is pressed. Thinking further, I would need some sort of fail-safe, that will prevent the car from going into park or reverse while driving down the highway

I know next to nothing about wiring and circuitry. I am will gladly pay someone to help me out with this one. I can source the buttons and fabricate what I need inside the car, as far as a common ground, and 6 individual "hot wires" coming off of each switch..

The part I am clueless about, is how one button moves it to a specific position, and another button moves it to another position. Is it done with resistance? Is the actuator programmed for each "Step"? What linear motor would I need, and where to get it?

Lastly, I did find, after extensive searching, a unit that is kind of an all in one for this, but the price tag was in the thousands!

Is this on the right track for what I am needing to physically move the shifter?



Any help from you electronic guru's out there is greatly appreciated!

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shemdogg
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Report this Post08-14-2017 08:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for shemdoggSend a Private Message to shemdoggEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Now u talking crazy but I like it. That actuator would work but you would need to set the relay by time to stop at whatever position you wanted. A safetey lockout system would be good to have also. I dont think it would ever move unless something shorted but doesnt hurt to be safe, just time consuming and expensive. maybe get a shift selector outta one of the new dodges, they have that knob to select gears now instead of the shift handle. You know like the one that killed that guy that was in the movies recently. He didnt rotate the thing all the way into park, was on a hill, and the jeep backed over n killed him. Im not a mopar guy so thats on you, good luck.

shem
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JohnWPB
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Report this Post08-14-2017 08:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would need an actuator that is digital I believe, something that the position can be programmed or something. They have to exist, as you mentioned the Jeep. It is a electronic signal that gets converted to move a mechanical selector or some sort. Should be the same for any of the vehicles that have a "drive by wire shifter".

FYI the guy killed was the one that played Pavel Checkov in the Star Trek series reboot. Was a real shame as he was only in his twenties.

Here is the one solution... it is just really expensive. I was thinking there had to be a more DIY approach:

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 08-14-2017).]

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seajai
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Report this Post08-14-2017 11:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for seajaiSend a Private Message to seajaiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think I remember Snapperhead performance posting something a while back about making a push button gear selector. I can't find a website anymore but he has a facebook page https://www.facebook.com/Sn...c_ref=PAGES_TIMELINE
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Patrick
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Report this Post08-14-2017 11:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

You might find the following website interesting... The push button gear selector switch aka "typewriter transmission"

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qwikgta
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Report this Post08-15-2017 01:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have one in my Pacifica and I love it. I have been trying to find something similar for my daily driver, but everything is performance driven, i only want it because its cool. I've seen the one from PCS and its awesome but for $1K its a little pricey for something "cool". Here's the knob for the one in my Van



Good luck.

Rob
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Report this Post08-15-2017 01:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
"I know next to nothing about wiring and circuitry. I am will gladly pay someone to help me out with this one." Doesn't mean much and is not a simple as using a motor of any type to shift.

AT shifter must have a very small widow for setting each gears and stay in gear but even console/column shifters are not the final say what gear AT is in.

Shift arm in the trans has detents for each gear but can allow movement and thus valve body can drops out of get, cause shift problems, etc, w/o warning. If the shifter, cables, motor/trans mounts etc are bad or miss adjust can put enough load so the detents doesn't mater.
If that happens on most highways w/ morons tailgating at 60+ MPH then you will be in a wreck. If you survive and even if Cops don't charge you, lawyers can have a field day w/ iffy custom/mod'ed cars.

Fiero has at least 3 interlock features. The shift gates in the shifter itself. Shifter Ignition switch cable. NS switch primarily job to kill starter from activating unless in park or neutral. (NS switch often have input(s) to ECM/PCM and activate B/U light too.) See my Cave, Auto Shifter and Neutral Safety Switch

 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
You might find the following website interesting... The push button gear selector switch aka "typewriter transmission"
If any of them are using a motor... they likely have switch(es) to kill power when the motor is in whatever gear. Sim to AC/heat mode motors in a Fiero.
My guess some to many have valve bodies made to work w/ shifter used.
Some have a lever to activate Park. Some may not have a Park pawl in the trans. Most if not all were made in Pre FMVSS years.

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[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 08-15-2017).]

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cvxjet
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Report this Post08-15-2017 01:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Chrysler cars had push button select on their automatics back in the 60s....This is closer to the basically mechanical shifting on older transmissions. The new transmissions are controlled by a computer and so any switch will do- Again, basically.

For an Automatic Fiero, this is a heck of an idea...It would get the shifter completely out of the way....It could either be the twist knob or push-button....(The knob has some possibility of throwing an arm that moves a cable that mechanically shifts the trany)....
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zmcdonal
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Report this Post08-15-2017 02:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zmcdonalSend a Private Message to zmcdonalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dan86GT:

No need for a shift lever....





Just push a button and go.

There is a box with the shift cable you can mount anywhere in the car. The trunk seemed to work the best for this project.



Then the cable just hooks up to the transmission like normal.





Not sure if this would work with a 4t65 for the 3800 but it could be a place to start looking at least, here is a link to the rest of his thread http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...3/HTML/000136-3.html
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Slammed
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Report this Post08-15-2017 03:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SlammedClick Here to Email SlammedSend a Private Message to SlammedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Arduino uno, however many buttons for however many positions you want, and a cheap linear actuator with 2" of throw.

Use two bosch relays to drive the actuator so you have forward and backward motion. Don't attempt to use the arduino to run the actuator directly. The code would be really simple, something you could figure out in a weekend or two

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radrace19
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Report this Post08-15-2017 03:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for radrace19Click Here to Email radrace19Send a Private Message to radrace19Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The PCS GSM-5000 will work just fine with the 4L65e transmission. That is the exact unit I'm using.
I mounted my unit behind the passenger seat instead of the rear trunk like Dan.

-Greg
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Report this Post08-15-2017 03:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For something even more out of the box...how about Edsel Teletouch... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletouch
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theogre
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Report this Post08-15-2017 10:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:
For something even more out of the box...how about Edsel Teletouch... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletouch
Many DIY AT sifters can have same problems. Powered or not. When Dirt "Water" etc get at them... can fail from corrosion very quickly.

Engine bay temps are not good for most things. Bay temp is not even stable while driving.
Engine at a stop light or slow traffic and temps can climb really fast then back to close weather temp that day have car moves again. In Winter, the bay temp can freeze, get hot then back to freezing in a very short time.

Is part of why kit above uses a cable to mount away from most heat/rot sources. Yet the box for shift/display won't like sun hitting it while parked outside.
Most electric parts have min/max Operating and Storage temp specs. Operating range is almost always much smaller the storage range.
Is why many ECM/PCM are the cabin and hidden sun heating them. (and see my Cave, ECM Heat)
In fact, Most PC etc as you read/post right now can break down just for heat problems.
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dratts
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Report this Post08-16-2017 10:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for drattsClick Here to Email drattsSend a Private Message to drattsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Fiero King designed my system. He used a linear actuator to select drive, park, or reverse. and steering column switches to select up or down. It has performed flawlessly. Fieroaddictions turbocharged N* has a tranny controller that costs about $800 and a custom steering wheel with up and down paddle shifter.

[This message has been edited by dratts (edited 08-16-2017).]

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Report this Post08-16-2017 12:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'd think the drag race shifters would work here.. they use a rpm chip to have it go into the next gear. you could use a button..
but really.. are we getting to the point that moving a shifter is to much work..
I think the love of these new vehicles with a volume type knob to pick gears are going to fade, as they will get dead spots in the most used spot (drive)
and as it looses and gets a connection as you go over bumps and waste your clutches .
Many are ending up on a hook in the winter.. guess those weather tight connectors are not always weather tight.
no thanks.. I'll take a mechanical connection to the shifter /transmission..
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Report this Post08-16-2017 12:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:
I think the love of these new vehicles with a volume type knob to pick gears are going to fade, as they will get dead spots in the most used spot (drive)
and as it looses and gets a connection as you go over bumps and waste your clutches .


People with money to buy new cars like these gizmos.

The knob shifter will likely have issues, but only by the time the car is at its 3rd owner, as in some fresh-out-of-high-school kid.

The needs of the high school kid down the line is not a consideration for the new-car buyer.

I expect that most of these knobs would be shaken on a test bench, to at least make sure that they survive past the warranty.

A traditional shifter cannot increase sales price like a knob shifter can. A traditional shifter is thus a poor design choice.
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Report this Post08-16-2017 12:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageClick Here to Email Mickey_MooseSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by shemdogg:

Now u talking crazy but I like it. That actuator would work but you would need to set the relay by time to stop at whatever position you wanted. A safetey lockout system would be good to have also. I dont think it would ever move unless something shorted but doesnt hurt to be safe, just time consuming and expensive. maybe get a shift selector outta one of the new dodges, they have that knob to select gears now instead of the shift handle. You know like the one that killed that guy that was in the movies recently. He didnt rotate the thing all the way into park, was on a hill, and the jeep backed over n killed him. Im not a mopar guy so thats on you, good luck.

shem


For the record the Jeep that killed him does NOT have the rotating knob for shifting gears ( I have one and none of the Grand Cherokees have even used the round knob for gear changes). It still has a "normal" shifter but it is electronic and doesn't have positive stops for each gear position. It is more like a joystick where you just move it down until it is in gear (BTW it will not change gears unless the button is also pushed on the knob). If anything it is the lack of detent positions that caused the accident - unless you are looking at the display, it is easy to miss not putting it into park. They have since patched the software so that it goes to park when the door is open and the seat belt is not engaged - but not sure I like this as you can't simply hop into the vehicle and just move it a few feet.

BTW the shifter design has been changed in the 2017+ models to provide some feedback to make it feel more mechanical.

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 08-16-2017).]

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JohnWPB
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Report this Post08-17-2017 10:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for all the comments and ideas.

 
quote
Originally posted by Slammed:
Arduino uno, however many buttons for however many positions you want, and a cheap linear actuator with 2" of throw.


Something like this is what I was picturing as well. The part that is unclear is how to determine the position of the linear actuator. The arduino would need some sort of signal to know where the actuator is, so it can stop it in the precise locations. I can easily make the actuator go out and in, the part I do not understand, is how to determine exactly where it is, so each gear can be a "stop".

EDIT: Found the solution, a linear actuator WITH a potentiometer built in, to return the exact position of the rod.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 08-17-2017).]

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qwikgta
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Report this Post08-17-2017 10:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A while back I saw someone who had swapped a LS motor into his car and did not use the drive by wire (DBW) setup at the accelerator pedal. He had the stock cable run all the way to the trunk and had it hooked up the the DBW switch there. I thought it was a great idea b/c it didn't require any mods to the inside of the car. What if you create something similar, in other words, instead of having the actuator connect to the transmission, have it hook up to a "hidden" stock shifter. You would not need the shift handle, just a small "arm" w/ the push button removed. Then you get the P-R-N-D detents, reverse lights and everything. So you just need to provide power to move the actuator forward and back so that it moves the "hidden" shifter. Does that make sense.

**edit** - if your running a non stock trans like a 4T65E, you could run the system out of the trunk. One of the issues is turning the shifting around b/c the 4T65 type trans shifts going to the front of the car, vice the rear. SO if you run a cable to the trunk, have the shifter there and connect the actuator to it, it could all be hidden in the bottom. You can even use the FWD shifter b/c the cable would be running forward. Hummm I like this idea.

Rob

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 08-17-2017).]

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Keel
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Report this Post08-18-2017 06:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KeelClick Here to Email KeelSend a Private Message to KeelEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:


For the record the Jeep that killed him does NOT have the rotating knob for shifting gears ( I have one and none of the Grand Cherokees have even used the round knob for gear changes). It still has a "normal" shifter but it is electronic and doesn't have positive stops for each gear position. It is more like a joystick where you just move it down until it is in gear (BTW it will not change gears unless the button is also pushed on the knob). If anything it is the lack of detent positions that caused the accident - unless you are looking at the display, it is easy to miss not putting it into park. They have since patched the software so that it goes to park when the door is open and the seat belt is not engaged - but not sure I like this as you can't simply hop into the vehicle and just move it a few feet.

BTW the shifter design has been changed in the 2017+ models to provide some feedback to make it feel more mechanical.



My thinking the lack of using tech already in vehicle killed him..
Any of these shifters, I don't care what type they look like, that it just sends a signal to a stepper motor to put the transmission in gear. could also, put it in park. The pass side seat has a sensor so the air bag will not go off if no one is in it.. putting on in the drivers seat if not already there, would make a dead-man switch.. no one in seat.. transmission goes into park..
Boom, new safety feature for all the lemmies to love that didn't cost anything but a module code line or two added.
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