Pennock's Fiero Forum
  General Fiero Chat
  Do spoilers make a difference on the Fiero? (Page 2)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version

This topic is 2 pages long:  1   2 
Previous Page | Next Page
next newest topic | next oldest topic
Do spoilers make a difference on the Fiero? by Threedog
Started on: 06-25-2017 12:20 PM
Replies: 54 (1170 views)
Last post by: sardonyx247 on 07-03-2017 07:10 AM
Easy8
Member
Posts: 346
From: Jacksonville, Fl
Registered: Feb 2009


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post06-30-2017 12:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Easy8Send a Private Message to Easy8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by andreww:

Spoilers are pretty much useless on factory cars and do nothing but add weight and drag. They are ornamental only. A true spoiler will increase downforce and give better grip in corners but will also cause lots of drag at high speed and cause your top speed to take a big hit. A spoiler on a Fiero is a waste of time because there really is not a lot of horsepower and getting that power to the wheels while cornering does not generally tend to break the back end loose. If you had 600 HP, there might be a need for one.


A true spoiler does not produce downforce. That would be a wing. As I said a spoiler effects airflow to reduce turblence. This may increase grip in a corner or it may smooth airflow over the car to allow for better fuel economy and reduce drag. To blanket that no factory car needs a wing or spoiler is pretty naive. You do not need 600 Hp to get a car going fast enough to need aero help. There are a lot of race cars running around with a lot less than 600 HP.
To say the spoiler/wing on the fiero does nothing by only using a "seat of the pants" test is ridiculous. Even the "I ran it in a 1/4 mile with and with out" does very little to tell you about the effects of an aero system. I have seen no one who has even tried a redneck wind tunnel and model test of the fiero yet to give us any data. What you really need is some one with a LOT of money to rig a fiero up with a system to measure weight on each wheel and measure the fuel flow. Then take this car out and drive it with a wing, with out a wing, and the same with and with out a luggage rack. Then we can tell if they have any effect. Till then it is all he said she said.. there is no way or I swear it drove better.
IP: Logged
2.5
Member
Posts: 41185
From: Southern MN
Registered: May 2007


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 178
Rate this member

Report this Post06-30-2017 02:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Easy8:
A true spoiler does not produce downforce. That would be a wing. As I said a spoiler effects airflow to reduce turblence. This may increase grip in a corner or it may smooth airflow over the car to allow for better fuel economy and reduce drag. To blanket that no factory car needs a wing or spoiler is pretty naive. You do not need 600 Hp to get a car going fast enough to need aero help. There are a lot of race cars running around with a lot less than 600 HP.
.


Yeah there are a lot of generic terms thrown around these days. Even the airdam by the radiator is technically a spoiler I would think.
IP: Logged
doublec4
Member
Posts: 8276
From: Oakville, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2003


Feedback score:    (20)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 151
Rate this member

Report this Post07-01-2017 12:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you want spoilers and wings.... have I got a wing for you

Active Aero







Wind tunnel:





[This message has been edited by doublec4 (edited 07-01-2017).]

IP: Logged
Easy8
Member
Posts: 346
From: Jacksonville, Fl
Registered: Feb 2009


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post07-01-2017 01:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Easy8Send a Private Message to Easy8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That is even better than a redneck wind tunnel set up.. So did you do any testing on a stock set up while there. And what kind of down force is that thing making?
IP: Logged
rogergarrison
Member
Posts: 49593
From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio
Registered: Apr 99


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 552
Rate this member

Report this Post07-01-2017 06:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:


Spoilers that appear effective at low speed:
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.


Like I said, as big as doors...

IP: Logged
rogergarrison
Member
Posts: 49593
From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio
Registered: Apr 99


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 552
Rate this member

Report this Post07-01-2017 06:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by doublec4:

If you want spoilers and wings.... have I got a wing for you

Active Aero





I hope your not trying to convince anyone that you couldnt take any of those turns at 25 mph without the wing...My minivan can handle those curves...with my riding mower in the back. Id guess my motorhome probably could too.

IP: Logged
Threedog
Member
Posts: 1227
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: Jun 2013


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 62
Rate this member

Report this Post07-01-2017 07:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ThreedogClick Here to Email ThreedogSend a Private Message to ThreedogEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by doublec4:

If you want spoilers and wings.... have I got a wing for you

Active Aero








Wind tunnel:









That is quite the wing..
IP: Logged
doublec4
Member
Posts: 8276
From: Oakville, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2003


Feedback score:    (20)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 151
Rate this member

Report this Post07-02-2017 10:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It was a prototype, proof of concept project that I did years ago for an engineering class. This was right before most of the recent super cars started seeing active aero elements.

If I remember correctly, at 5-10 degrees AOA it made somewhere between 130 - 170 lbs of downforce @ 140kmh .... but also 170 lbs of drag. I can't remember what would be an acceptable ratio but it works great for a shooting air brake. At stall angle it could produce over 225lbs of drag at 140kmh !

------------------

Check out my build and my website!
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000100.html
Embrace Racing

IP: Logged
Tony Kania
Member
Posts: 20794
From: The Inland Northwest
Registered: Dec 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 305
User Banned

Report this Post07-02-2017 12:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I do remember your thread Double4c. You put a lot of actual work and research into your engineering project. Thank you for all the hard labor and for sharing it with us. Most Fiero folk cannot afford a wind tunnel to test out ideas, but through dedication and desire you were able to get a Fiero into a wind tunnel. Kudos.

This sight has so much information. We should never forget that.
IP: Logged
Easy8
Member
Posts: 346
From: Jacksonville, Fl
Registered: Feb 2009


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post07-02-2017 12:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Easy8Send a Private Message to Easy8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Interesting how far back on that wing the air flow hits. Looks Ike the first half of that is not used at all. I so need a wind tunnel to play with.
IP: Logged
pmbrunelle
Member
Posts: 3688
From: Grand-Mère, Québec
Registered: Sep 2008


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 55
Rate this member

Report this Post07-03-2017 12:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Easy8:

Interesting how far back on that wing the air flow hits. Looks Ike the first half of that is not used at all. I so need a wind tunnel to play with.


This is making me wonder, how can a poverty version of a wind tunnel be implemented in order to visualize streamlines?

If you could mount a smoke canister to the front of a Fiero, perhaps 15' ahead, it may be possible to observe the flow with a chase car. Fiero under test in the right lane of a 3-lane (each direction) freeway, chase car in the left lane of said 3-lane freeway, at the 8 o'clock of the Fiero under test.

Chase car to be equipped with a go-pro, walkie-talkies for communication between both cars.
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
Darth Z
Member
Posts: 101
From: Houma, LA, USA
Registered: Jun 2015


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post07-03-2017 12:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth ZClick Here to Email Darth ZSend a Private Message to Darth ZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Threedog:
I always noticed my 4th gen Camaro had a "cone" of water directed under the spoiler after rain/snow, I'll have to look at that on the Fiero..


What do you mean a "cone?" I've had two 4th gens, and I don't remember ever seeing a "cone."
IP: Logged
Threedog
Member
Posts: 1227
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: Jun 2013


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 62
Rate this member

Report this Post07-03-2017 01:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ThreedogClick Here to Email ThreedogSend a Private Message to ThreedogEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Darth Z:


What do you mean a "cone?" I've had two 4th gens, and I don't remember ever seeing a "cone."



When ever there was a light snow, I'd notice an upside down cone on the rear window. The cone came to a point just before the spoiler at the center. The snow in the cone would be undistrubed, whereas the snow outside the cone was blown away.
IP: Logged
RayOtton
Member
Posts: 3446
From: Cape Charles, VA, USA
Registered: Jul 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 54
Rate this member

Report this Post07-03-2017 06:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RayOttonClick Here to Email RayOttonSend a Private Message to RayOttonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:


This is making me wonder, how can a poverty version of a wind tunnel be implemented in order to visualize streamlines?

If you could mount a smoke canister to the front of a Fiero, perhaps 15' ahead, it may be possible to observe the flow with a chase car. Fiero under test in the right lane of a 3-lane (each direction) freeway, chase car in the left lane of said 3-lane freeway, at the 8 o'clock of the Fiero under test.

Chase car to be equipped with a go-pro, walkie-talkies for communication between both cars.


You engineering types are a hoot.

We love you guys around here but really, you think the cops will be totally OK with a smoke generator on a 15ft pole hanging from the front of the car and a pace car two lanes over taking pictures?

I'd like to be a fly on the wall at the end of the cop's shift when he's relaying the story of a couple of egghead dudes riding around the countryside with this contraption hanging off a 30 year old sports car. I mean, it sound like a scene out of some screwball comedy movie.

BTW, with a smoke generator blowing straight into your line of vision you might even make the Darwin Awards.

Disclaimer - in no way do I mean this as a criticism or to start a battle. It's just funny in the mind's eye, that's all.
IP: Logged
sardonyx247
Member
Posts: 5024
From: Nevada, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


Feedback score:    (88)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 218
Rate this member

Report this Post07-03-2017 07:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:




I have strapped a lot of crap to luggage racks on Fieros, I have luggage rack deck lids for both notchbacks and my GT for just such a thing, BTW if I find a free dryer I would definitely strap it to the back and haul it back. (I want to toss in a brick and watch it destroy itself)

 
quote
Originally posted by doublec4:

If you want spoilers and wings.... have I got a wing for you

Active Aero







Wind tunnel:









I would not even park next to that car, even with a dryer strapped to the back, too much rice.
IP: Logged
Previous Page | Next Page

This topic is 2 pages long:  1   2 
next newest topic | next oldest topic

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock