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Replacement headlight motors = Which to stay away from? To get? Where? etc. by 2.5
Started on: 06-08-2017 03:36 PM
Replies: 10 (497 views)
Last post by: Dennis LaGrua on 06-22-2017 07:08 PM
2.5
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Report this Post06-08-2017 03:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm talking about Gen 2. We can talk about Gen 1 as well but specify that in your post please.

I see may available now,
Cardone new,
Cardone rebuilt,
"generic" ones that seem to just say "replacement" as if it were a brand.
Some $50 each some $100 each, some $125 each.
In parts stores and online.
Sometimes reman cost more, sometimes new cost more.

Does "you get what you pay for" apply here?
In the auto parts world these days it seems more based on reviews and then trying to figure out if its a Chinese copy...

One guy reviewed one on Amazon and said "they work fine but you have to swap the wires, they are reversed".
Which is odd because I have head Firebird motors have our passenger motor on their drivers side, etc.
But reversing wires seems like a separate issue.
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post06-09-2017 12:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have used the new Cardone 87-88 headlight motors and they have been working well so far. They are Chinese made so long term reliability is a concern. Have not found a source for RELIABLE 84-86 headlight motors. A friend purchased two so called rebuilt units and both were dead on arrival. Might try rebuilding myself.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
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lateFormula
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Report this Post06-09-2017 09:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lateFormulaSend a Private Message to lateFormulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I replaced both of my headlight motors on my 88 with new Cardone motors. Here's my take:

Pros: 1) They lift the headlights noticeably faster than the old OE motors.
2) They are very quiet.

Cons: 1) Don't think they are as powerful as the OE motors. When I got the new motors I compared them to the old OE ones before I installed them, and they appeared to be identical matches. But once they were installed, the first several tries to turn the headlights on, they would reverse at about halfway up which is likely because the motors were overloaded. I solved this by disassembling all the pivot points on the headlight chassis and greasing those pivot points. I also lubricated the "rub" strips on the underside of the headlight doors with several heavy coats of spray silicone to reduce the friction between the headlight chassis and the door. After this they have worked just fine.

I have been considering buying a set of remans just to see if they have better opening power. One of these days I need to buy a headlight controller module just in case I need one of those someday...
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Report this Post06-10-2017 12:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have Cardone new units and work quite and fast.

I didn't look at country made. Still have boxes look at them later. update 6-10 @ 11am: Boxes have small sticker saying Make in China.
Cardone and a others do have Mexico China and other factories but aren't cheap knockoffs.
Plus HL motors are a low volume thing so hopefully not a big target to counterfeit vs fuel pumps that fits allot of vehicles, big name clothes, etc.

I think AZ carries Cardone under Store Brand and markup doing that. Part isn't better, just cost more and AZ warranty is easy too if part dies.

 
quote
Originally posted by lateFormula:
I replaced both of my headlight motors on my 88 with new Cardone motors. Here's my take:

Pros: 1) They lift the headlights noticeably faster than the old OE motors.
2) They are very quiet.

Cons: 1) Don't think they are as powerful as the OE motors. When I got the new motors I compared them to the old OE ones before I installed them, and they appeared to be identical matches. But once they were installed, the first several tries to turn the headlights on, they would reverse at about halfway up which is likely because the motors were overloaded. I solved this by disassembling all the pivot points on the headlight chassis and greasing those pivot points. I also lubricated the "rub" strips on the underside of the headlight doors with several heavy coats of spray silicone to reduce the friction between the headlight chassis and the door. After this they have worked just fine.

I have been considering buying a set of remans just to see if they have better opening power. One of these days I need to buy a headlight controller module just in case I need one of those someday...
likely Something is still wrong for your car but not sure exactly what.
Module does not auto reverse from binding motor(s) etc. It will shutdown power and stay dead until HL switch is used again. Iffy HL switch or wiring might cause this problem.

At least check/fix G101 and G102 next to both HL because most things in front ground there. Could be module w/ iffy terminal... Most electrical parts are weather resistance but not water proof. Big problem driving thru deep water etc.

Cleaning is good but lubing pivots w/ nylon bushings can haunt you later.
See http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/136128.html and related threads

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[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 06-10-2017).]

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wgpierce
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Report this Post06-10-2017 09:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wgpierceSend a Private Message to wgpierceEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wouldn't dry lube be better for this sort of thing?

https://www.wd40specialist.com/products/dry-lube/

I use this one in Australia:

http://www.crcindustries.co.../dry-glide-with-ptfe
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Report this Post06-12-2017 09:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by wgpierce:
Wouldn't dry lube be better for this sort of thing?
https://www.wd40specialist.com/products/dry-lube/

I use this one in Australia:
http://www.crcindustries.co.../dry-glide-with-ptfe
Teflon/PTFE is most inert but products have other chemical... Many Dry PFTE formulas have not to use them w/ plastics on the label. Others might not have the warning but still don't like plastic. So in general, Paint only the metal parts.

Plastic parts may look ok to you but many types have problem because solvents and other chemicals in the can can "eat" them making them brittle etc. More so when parts are not taken off and same chemicals are slower to dry.

Now Above say can use on "most plastics" (WD40 site) but if you do you want to have parts apart so solvents and binding agents dry fast as possible.

And most all have the warning to have plenty of air flow to apply them...
You don't want to breath the solvents and binding agents and even the PTFE as well.
I use PB Blaster and many others but use them outside to not breath the fumes and some can many you car house etc to stink for days or longer.
If you used any of them regularly... Note that Most masks are not rated to remove these for dry and wet spray lubes. You likely need a mask w/ filters rated for VOC (Volatile Organic Chemicals) and HEPA (micro to nano size dry particles). Solvents etc often are VOC and Teflon and other particles can be to small for most "dust" masks.
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Report this Post06-12-2017 01:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

I have Cardone new units and work quite and fast.
Boxes have small sticker saying Make in China.
Cardone and a others do have Mexico China and other factories but aren't cheap knockoffs.
Plus HL motors are a low volume thing so hopefully not a big target to counterfeit vs fuel pumps that fits allot of vehicles, big name clothes, etc.


Good point about them being low volume.
Regarding Cardone and made in Mex or Chi, etc.. do you thnk that means the brand new ones that look just like Cardones but are called "replacement brand" for $120 online for a pair, are as good as cardones? That's half price plus you get both sides (so you are guaranteed not to get the wrong side)...Does anyone else actually make them new?

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 06-12-2017).]

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Report this Post06-12-2017 07:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:
Good point about them being low volume.
Regarding Cardone and made in Mex or Chi, etc.. do you thnk that means the brand new ones that look just like Cardones but are called "replacement brand" for $120 online for a pair, are as good as cardones? That's half price plus you get both sides (so you are guaranteed not to get the wrong side)...Does anyone else actually make them new?
I think I paid ~$90 each @ amazon and got points for CC used too so less total cost. I used my wife's Prime so free 2 day shipping too. (I rarely use Amazon and when I do most things in no hurry so not paying for prime.)

I'm guessing "Replacement Brand" Headlight Motors SET-REPP383401?
No name brand off Ebay etc might be identical in every way or not but if you have problems likely have to find the vendor again etc.
Plus they only have a year of warranty or less from www.carparts.com etc.
So can try them but might not last more then a year or three.

Seems to be a clearing house operation sim to RA but not sold to end users.
I found http://www.replacementautoparts.com/ @ https://community.cartalk.c...-they-any-good/68275 by google: replacement brand auto parts but site is dead or too slow and times out. WHOIS data is hidden by a company in FL but IP (209.80.41.216) shows
code:
Source:  whois.arin.net
IP Address: 209.80.41.216
Name: LATISYS-IRV01-209-80-41-216-29
Handle: NET-209-80-41-216-1
Registration Date: 1/24/13
Range: 209.80.41.216-209.80.41.223
Customer: U.S. Auto Parts Network, Inc.
Customer Handle: C03282025
Address: 17150 Margay Avenue
City: Carson
State/Province: CA
Postal Code: 90746
Country: UNITED STATES

Source: https://www.ultratools.com/tools/ipWhoisLookup
ETA---> U.S. Auto Parts Network, Inc. has www.usautoparts.net and look same as above w/ different logos etc because same company owns it. (Look @ about page) I've seen this for others things.... one company but many different brands/sites selling to make fake competition.

Note: Many Counterfeit items for car parts often fall into two classes...
Some counterfeit units are made the exactly same in the same Chinese factory but not made for Cardone and other big names.
Some counterfeits are made in same the factories and look same but internal parts are substandard at best.
Both are cheap but second one can break or catch fire etc and you have no clue which one you have until too late.
Warboro FP and many others have many problems because of both types.

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 06-12-2017).]

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post06-16-2017 08:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


Good point about them being low volume.
Regarding Cardone and made in Mex or Chi, etc.. do you thnk that means the brand new ones that look just like Cardones but are called "replacement brand" for $120 online for a pair, are as good as cardones? That's half price plus you get both sides (so you are guaranteed not to get the wrong side)...Does anyone else actually make them new?


Here is my guess. The headlight motors sold on eBay for $60 are exactly the same as the Cardone units. This is a low volume replacement motor. I cannot see other manufacturers tooling up and bearing startup tooling costs to produce these. They should all be manufactured in the same facility and be of equal quality.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Report this Post06-16-2017 10:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfieroClick Here to Email mrfieroSend a Private Message to mrfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

Here is my guess. The headlight motors sold on eBay for $60 are exactly the same as the Cardone units. This is a low volume replacement motor. I cannot see other manufacturers tooling up and bearing startup tooling costs to produce these. They should all be manufactured in the same facility and be of equal quality.





They could be seconds or "rejects". They may or may not work as well as the "official" Cardone items, but if they are half the cost then it may still be worth the gamble.

IDK....aside from deteriorated drive pins I have never had a Gen 2 motor go bad....hopefully I never do!
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post06-22-2017 07:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfiero:
They could be seconds or "rejects". They may or may not work as well as the "official" Cardone items, but if they are half the cost then it may still be worth the gamble.

IDK....aside from deteriorated drive pins I have never had a Gen 2 motor go bad....hopefully I never do!


It is possible that the eBay motors do not meet the torque specs and hence the price. However, Cardone only re-boxes these motors and I assume does not test them. Still believe that all the aftermarket Chinese headlight motors are identical and due to the low demand are made by only one manufacturer. I have had a couple of Gen II motors that were not easily rebuildable. When I tried to remove the cover screws they all snapped off. Rather than spend hours trying to get the screw stubs out, I just purchased the Cardone units. They work very smoothly.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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