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Hydroplaning issues or another Fiero myth? by Neils88
Started on: 03-06-2017 09:23 PM
Replies: 31 (772 views)
Last post by: solotwo on 03-17-2017 08:22 PM
Neils88
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Report this Post03-06-2017 09:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
While vacationing in Mexico last week, I bumped into a couple people who had a real passion for working on performance cars (in general they were very knowledgeable in automotive mechanics). Obviously the conversation eventually made it around to Fieros. One of the guys brought up another Fiero myth (I would assume) that I'd never heard of before. He started telling me about a certain Fiero trim package that was supposedly short lived since insurance companies wouldn't insure it due to hydroplaning issues related to that specific model. I politely tried to refute this claim, since it sounded completely ridiculous. He wouldn't back down on this so I just dropped the subject and moved onto something else.

Has anyone heard of any Fieros not being insurable for any reason? (Canada? US? Elsewhere?) I'm guessing this is just one more unsubstantiated Fiero myth, but just wanted to confirm. Anyone ever have hydroplaning issues?
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Report this Post03-06-2017 09:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jjd2296Send a Private Message to jjd2296Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I call bull :;()&. The wheel wheel size and curb height wouldn't allow for any more hydro planing than any other vehicle.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post03-06-2017 09:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Neils88:

While vacationing in Mexico last week, I bumped into a couple people who had a real passion for working on performance cars (in general they were very knowledgeable in automotive mechanics). Obviously the conversation eventually made it around to Fieros. One of the guys brought up another Fiero myth (I would assume) that I'd never heard of before. He started telling me about a certain Fiero trim package that was supposedly short lived since insurance companies wouldn't insure it due to hydroplaning issues related to that specific model. I politely tried to refute this claim, since it sounded completely ridiculous. He wouldn't back down on this so I just dropped the subject and moved onto something else.

Has anyone heard of any Fieros not being insurable for any reason? (Canada? US? Elsewhere?) I'm guessing this is just one more unsubstantiated Fiero myth, but just wanted to confirm. Anyone ever have hydroplaning issues?


Never heard this one. Hydroplaning is more a tire issue.

The standard nose on the early cars generates lift. Once you get to about 90 mph you can feel the steering get lighter. Pontiac had numbers on it. It was not a lot of lift but at high speed you could notice it. My air dam removed it.

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Report this Post03-06-2017 10:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DomtechClick Here to Email DomtechSend a Private Message to DomtechEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Maybe they thought this because 2 Fieros were used on a mythbusters episode about driving across water by going fast. The chose it due the the weight distribution, not because of a tendency to hydroplane.
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Fiero Vampire
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Report this Post03-06-2017 11:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero VampireSend a Private Message to Fiero VampireEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
They must have been talking about the 89 prototype, that trim was very short lived
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cvxjet
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Report this Post03-07-2017 12:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Oh yeah- I heard of that....also, you should have asked them if they had seen all of the >Green< Fieros that had caught fire.......
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Patrick
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Report this Post03-07-2017 02:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

...also, you should have asked them if they had seen all of the >Green< Fieros that had caught fire.......


I heard it was the green Fieros that hydroplaned.
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cvxjet
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Report this Post03-07-2017 11:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Those dang green Fieros! They're a problem......

[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 03-07-2017).]

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Report this Post03-07-2017 02:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yup, the green ones!
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Perhaps its a cultural thing south of the border, maybe they hydroplane with really wide deep dish wheels and tires.
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Report this Post03-07-2017 05:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wgpierceSend a Private Message to wgpierceEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm sure the insurance comment is nonsense, however I do think Fiero's have unique handling characteristics that can lend itself to a bit of hydroplaning.

I have first hand experience:

I was driving my 86 Fiero SE on a long sweeping curved road travelling around 45 miles an hour. My tires were probably about half tread, and it had recently rained. It was not raining at the time but the road was wet. Somewhere in the middle of that corner I let off my steady application of my throttle and....................... the rear suspension unloaded a bit and I found myself in an instant spin. Hit the median strip and slid up it (short curb type) for about 200 feet, then crossed the median into the other lanes in the opposite direction. Ended up facing traffic in the middle of the opposite lanes. FORTUNATELY for me, there was zero other cars on the road at the time so all that happened was a bent front wheel and a few undercarriage scrapes. Was very luck.

Be careful in the rain
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Report this Post03-07-2017 05:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes. a Fiero will hydroplane in the wet quicker than ANY front engine car. There are only 600 Lbs. pushing each front tire down, and Fiero drivers like fat tires....so it's simple physics.
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Report this Post03-07-2017 08:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I figured it was just another myth. It seems like everyone has a new one. At least now I know not to buy a green one since they apparently catch fire while hydroplaning....
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Report this Post03-07-2017 08:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Neils88:

I figured it was just another myth. It seems like everyone has a new one. At least now I know not to buy a green one since they apparently catch fire while hydroplaning....


Bnag!!!!
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fieroguru
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Report this Post03-07-2017 08:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

Yes. a Fiero will hydroplane in the wet quicker than ANY front engine car. There are only 600 Lbs. pushing each front tire down, and Fiero drivers like fat tires....so it's simple physics.


I agree!

About 20 years ago I was driving an 86 Fiero on a an interstate merge ramp (EB I-80 to NB I-294 in Chicago) in the rain. When I turned the steering wheel, the car didn't turn and the front wheels just slid. I let off the throttle and tapped the brakes to load the front wheels and it got enough traction to make the turn and avoid the barrier.

The issue is worse if the alignment isn't perfect.
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Report this Post03-07-2017 11:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bjc 350Send a Private Message to bjc 350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Have not heard that one. But the simple solution is "Don't drive them in the rain!" and I live in Northwest Oregon, so my Fiero's do not get many miles on them. I've had two other mid engine cars, a Fiat X19 which got driven hard as it would go, most of the time. Never had an issue with hydroplaning in over 40,000 miles. The Lotus Esprit didn't get driven much in the rain, but never experienced hydroplaning with it, either. The Lotus would get loose if you let off in a fast turn, though. Seems to me after all these years, that a front engine/front drive works best in wet weather, so I guess a light front end could create issues with certain types of tires. Just conjecture.. Oh, and how many Corona's had the guy consumed before coming up with that theory?
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Raydar
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Report this Post03-08-2017 06:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

Yes. a Fiero will hydroplane in the wet quicker than ANY front engine car. There are only 600 Lbs. pushing each front tire down, and Fiero drivers like fat tires....so it's simple physics.


A good illustration of this is when Chester and Elvira were returning from Daytona a few years back and hydroplaned. Ended up under a semi trailer. Fortunately, there were no serious injuries.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...030819-1-027556.html
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Report this Post03-08-2017 09:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My Saturn SL hydroplanes far worse than my Fieros.
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Report this Post03-08-2017 11:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Installed Firestone Indy 500 tires at 225/45 17 all around several months back. We have had a ton of snow and rain here this winter. In the snow, this summer rated tire is COMPLETELY worthless. But, in the rain, it is the best damn tire I have EVER had. It just goes through rain and road puddles like nothing. You really have to feel it to believe just how good these tires are in the rain.

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Report this Post03-08-2017 05:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Tire width, thread depth and tread pattern are the only real things that cause hydroplaning. I could go along with the Fiero low front end weight could contribute. All of mine were fine in the rain and drove them in snow too. I did learn with one of the Corvettes Kumho tires are worthless over 65 mph in the rain. Not much better than racing slicks, and they were brand new.
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Report this Post03-08-2017 05:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:
.... I did learn with one of the Corvettes Kumho tires are worthless over 65 mph in the rain. Not much better than racing slicks, and they were brand new.


I've got Kumho PS91s on my G6. I have Kumhos on both of my Fieros. I find them to be quite good in the rain, and the dry.

The worst tires I've ever owned were Toyo Extenza HPs. My G6 would spin them even on dry pavement, even with the traction control turned on.
Driving them in the rain was truly frightening. I'm blaming the rubber compound, as much as anything. They were also noisy as hell.
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Report this Post03-08-2017 06:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for edfieroClick Here to Email edfieroSend a Private Message to edfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:


I agree!

About 20 years ago I was driving an 86 Fiero on a an interstate merge ramp (EB I-80 to NB I-294 in Chicago) in the rain. When I turned the steering wheel, the car didn't turn and the front wheels just slid. I let off the throttle and tapped the brakes to load the front wheels and it got enough traction to make the turn and avoid the barrier.

The issue is worse if the alignment isn't perfect.



I have big issue with front end "plow" when the roads are wet. Had the issue ever since car was new regardless of tire.


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Report this Post03-09-2017 04:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:


I've got Kumho PS91s on my G6. I have Kumhos on both of my Fieros. I find them to be quite good in the rain, and the dry.

The worst tires I've ever owned were Toyo Extenza HPs. My G6 would spin them even on dry pavement, even with the traction control turned on.
Driving them in the rain was truly frightening. I'm blaming the rubber compound, as much as anything. They were also noisy as hell.


It was 10 years ago and they could have improved them, or I had a different model tire. I know on the freeway in the rain, the car would change lanes or even go to the berm on a curve over 65. You could spin the steering wheel to lock and it would keep going straight until you either let up on the gas or braked to put weight on them. It was truely terrifying to drive. They were great on dry roads. At 65 wet, it was like doing 85 on glare ice.

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Report this Post03-10-2017 12:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Many are missing 2 big facts:
1. "Wet roads" often are not wet with just water. Rain water can float oil and other slippery stuff out of the road. Every a small amount of wet leaves and other crap can make you loose control.
2. Road condition and pavement can make a big difference. Example: Old Concrete can "glaze" from traffic loads and only give low traction even when dry. Any water etc and old concrete can behave same as driving on snow or ice.

Both happens even when you the best brand new tires.

Then add most people just Ignore Speed Limits on highway, worse driving on/off ramps to them.
Big examples are big trunks that roll over on a ramp even in daytime w/ dry pavement.
How many time to you see ramp walls full of tire marks and crushed guard rails because many are going too fast to make the curve?
Worse many places don't clean the roads and ramps often and all kinds of thrash is on them to grease the road like race tracks w/ marbles problems late in a race. On the track and get out of the groove and very like will hit the wall just from tire waste.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)


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Report this Post03-10-2017 07:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I agree that a Fiero will hydroplane before most front engine cars, given the same tires on both vehicles. It's a simple matter of weight distribution and physics.
The insurance issue and particular model of Fiero mentioned in the original post, however, well.......No.
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Report this Post03-10-2017 11:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin87FieroGTSend a Private Message to Kevin87FieroGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wasn't the formula for hydroplaning a tire something like: 8.67x square root of the tire pressure= mph for hydroplaning to start. You can do the math, have at it.

[This message has been edited by Kevin87FieroGT (edited 03-10-2017).]

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Report this Post03-10-2017 04:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The "oil on the road" thing is very true. I won't drive my Fiero in "first rain"....Only after it's been raining for a while so the oil is washed off. Also, the front-end plow during throttle-on is very true; I almost bought a parking stop in a parking lot when I tried to impress my GF by spinning it around- and it went straight......Dumb-dumb-dumb!

Every tire company makes summer-only and all-season tires...The make is not so important as the type of tire- I always buy all-season...They are only a little slower in the dry but safer in the rain. I can dice thru backroad turns at a slightly slower rate....a slightly safer rate- yet the car is drifting thru the turns and can be controlled with throttle or steering. With the "Extreme performance" summer tires you have to be going so fast that if you do 'over-cook" you are in deep crap.....
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Report this Post03-10-2017 04:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Seems legit.


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Report this Post03-10-2017 06:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wgpierceSend a Private Message to wgpierceEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Awesome

[This message has been edited by wgpierce (edited 03-10-2017).]

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Report this Post03-11-2017 04:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AustralianClick Here to visit Australian's HomePageClick Here to Email AustralianSend a Private Message to AustralianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Mythbusters : PLAUSIBLE
part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ6wc6IQwr4
part 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i72pghcE4Fo

[This message has been edited by Australian (edited 03-11-2017).]

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Report this Post03-11-2017 05:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wgpierceSend a Private Message to wgpierceEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Poor Fiero!
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Report this Post03-11-2017 08:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had more trouble in the rain with my 84 corvette then any of my Fieros
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Report this Post03-17-2017 08:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It is tires! I didnt have any problems hydroplaning with the Continental Extreme Contact DW tires! Those people in Mexico probably drive with tires that are down to 3/32 or less. I see it in the winter, here in Michigan. Stupid people driving around with almost bald tires and wonder why the slip slide and get stuck! It tires baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ask racers. Watch IMSA and Pirelli World Cup Series. You can see them slide more at the end of the race!

[This message has been edited by solotwo (edited 03-17-2017).]

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