Pennock's Fiero Forum
  General Fiero Chat
  Which suspension did the original pace cars have?

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


next newest topic | next oldest topic
Which suspension did the original pace cars have? by tshark
Started on: 03-05-2017 10:13 AM
Replies: 21 (724 views)
Last post by: liv4God on 03-29-2017 02:56 AM
tshark
Member
Posts: 4374
From:
Registered: Feb 2014


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 64
Rate this member

Report this Post03-05-2017 10:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
....

[This message has been edited by tshark (edited 09-07-2018).]

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
hyperv6
Member
Posts: 5487
From: Clinton, OH, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post03-05-2017 12:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you are speaking of the 6 driving team PPG pace cars they has a original suspension that was modified. Fred should be able to give the details but I know they were lowered and the shock and struts were changed along with bushings. They were for sure not stock but they were also not 1988 either but they all started off as the original suspensions.

I have flyer with the changes but I would have to dig it out.

The 88 was in development when the pace cars came out and was not used for these or the Indy Pace Cars.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 03-05-2017).]

IP: Logged
tshark
Member
Posts: 4374
From:
Registered: Feb 2014


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 64
Rate this member

Report this Post03-05-2017 02:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
...

[This message has been edited by tshark (edited 09-07-2018).]

IP: Logged
dobey
Member
Posts: 11572
From:
Registered: Sep 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 371
User Banned

Report this Post03-05-2017 03:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
http://www.hotrod.com/artic...-1985-ppg-fiero-gtp/

 
quote

Suspension and Brakes

For these GTPs to perform professional track exhibitions for thousands of spectators, Autostyle and KONI engineers worked on suspension enhancements. They strengthened the front crossmembers and control arms and mounted them to the frame with high -durometer bushings. They installed KONI adjustable gas shock absorbers and coil springs, plus a 1.00-inch front sway bar.

In the rear of the car, the engine cradle (mounted to the space frame with specially designed bushings), lower control arms, and driveline were reinforced.

The factory parking brake was swapped out for a mechanical-over-hydraulic-disc parking brake. In addition, the brake rotors, calipers, bearings, knuckle assemblies, and axles (which came from the Chevrolet Chevette) were upgraded with heavy-duty components from the 6000 STE. KONI adjustable gas-filled struts; stiffer springs; and a rear-mounted, 0.875-inch sway bar tighten up the rear’s capabilities.


The PPG cars started life as 85 GTs, so would have started off with WS6 suspension, I think. Likewise, the 84 Indy replicas were SEs and had the WS6 option standard with that package, I think.
IP: Logged
hyperv6
Member
Posts: 5487
From: Clinton, OH, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post03-05-2017 09:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What is in the box here is spot on.

The biggest fix was to get the rear cradle more solid so the bump steer is removed.

Styleauto also had to mount a fuel cell in the nose for track use so this had to be tuned into cars handling.

I do remember the Koni shocks and struts.

They were 85 cars.

The greatest issues with the car per the team manager that let me nose around the cars was the heat in the engine compartment. But that is another story.

If I remember I will try to find the book I was given and see if it has any more details.
IP: Logged
tshark
Member
Posts: 4374
From:
Registered: Feb 2014


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 64
Rate this member

Report this Post03-06-2017 12:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
....

[This message has been edited by tshark (edited 09-07-2018).]

IP: Logged
dobey
Member
Posts: 11572
From:
Registered: Sep 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 371
User Banned

Report this Post03-06-2017 09:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:

I wonder if there's any benefit to making similar changes to our suspension.


Having done so, I can certainly say there is benefit. Especially when some of the components are probably 30 years old and never been changed.

I went full poly bushings, new performance KYBs for shocks/struts, and ST Suspension lowering springs, along with new dogbone that had poly, and the car was a totally different animal. And that's nowhere near the changes that the real pace cars had.

If I ever get the time and energy to do the restoration of my car, I'll be going way beyond even what was done for the pace cars; but it'll have an LS then too.
IP: Logged
tshark
Member
Posts: 4374
From:
Registered: Feb 2014


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 64
Rate this member

Report this Post03-06-2017 05:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
...

[This message has been edited by tshark (edited 09-07-2018).]

IP: Logged
hyperv6
Member
Posts: 5487
From: Clinton, OH, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post03-06-2017 09:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Stiffer bushings or even in some solid bushings cut down on deflection.

Just I'm yer back you have sub frame bushings and control arm bushings deflecting along with a tie rod that changes toe.

Herb Adams went to solid bearing bushings on his set up. Others rely on the sub frame in solid or poly.

The key is to remove deflection but as you take steps to do this you will pick up some harshness. This is why if you go solid with one you go poly on the other.

IP: Logged
tshark
Member
Posts: 4374
From:
Registered: Feb 2014


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 64
Rate this member

Report this Post03-08-2017 07:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
...

[This message has been edited by tshark (edited 09-07-2018).]

IP: Logged
dobey
Member
Posts: 11572
From:
Registered: Sep 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 371
User Banned

Report this Post03-09-2017 08:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:
How would one of the pace cars with an SD4 compare to a modern car, in terms of acceleration and handling?

I'm just wondering what the Fiero would have been like if they'd been able to make the car they wanted to make.


The real SD4 in the real pace car would have been plenty quick, with 230+ HP. The engine itself wouldn't have really affected the handling though.

The accessories that were sold to make the standard 2.5 look like the SD4, didn't really do anything for power. This is what the replica cars you could buy at the dealer had.

Remember, the V6 was meant to be a turbo car, too. And the 89-90 prototype car had a 3.2 DOHC V6.
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
edfiero
Member
Posts: 893
From: Coatesville, PA
Registered: Nov 2004


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post03-09-2017 12:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for edfieroClick Here to Email edfieroSend a Private Message to edfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:

How would one of the pace cars with an SD4 compare to a modern car, in terms of acceleration and handling?

I'm just wondering what the Fiero would have been like if they'd been able to make the car they wanted to make.


I have an SD4 in my 84 SE. The engine shaved 4+ seconds off the 0-60 time. But that isn't saying that much. Now days a Toyota Camry with a V6 can hit 60mph in the low 6's.
It takes a lot of money or effort to make a Fiero handle like a Corvette or other modern performance car.
IP: Logged
2.5
Member
Posts: 41196
From: Southern MN
Registered: May 2007


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 178
Rate this member

Report this Post03-09-2017 01:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Comparing the car they wanted to make to a car of today is still apples to oranges.
IP: Logged
RAREW66
Member
Posts: 1115
From: Davenport, IA USA
Registered: Jun 2001


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 78
Rate this member

Report this Post03-09-2017 11:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RAREW66Click Here to visit RAREW66's HomePageClick Here to Email RAREW66Send a Private Message to RAREW66Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You guys would not want the set ups for the pace cars for everyday driving on a street Fiero. There is more to it than bushings, springs and shocks. These cars were not intended to drive in a straight line at low speed. The real Indy pace cars are set up to turn left which involves staggered camber and toe settings to keep the tires flat under load at high speed going left on a banked curve. The car drove like a dream at 80mph at IMS. The GTP cars are set up for the driving team maneuvers which were often performed between 60 and 80 mph. The cars are set up with 1.5 degrees of negative camber on all four corners and caster set just a tenth of a degree positive from zero. They steer really easy and require the driver to be up on the wheel at speed to keep the car straight.

Fred
IP: Logged
tshark
Member
Posts: 4374
From:
Registered: Feb 2014


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 64
Rate this member

Report this Post03-09-2017 11:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
...

[This message has been edited by tshark (edited 09-07-2018).]

IP: Logged
Australian
Member
Posts: 4331
From: Sydney Australia
Registered: Sep 2004


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post03-11-2017 08:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AustralianClick Here to visit Australian's HomePageClick Here to Email AustralianSend a Private Message to AustralianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Spotted a set 4 indy wheels for sale ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ind...AOSw-0xYYaGZ&vxp=mtr
IP: Logged
Fiero Vice
Member
Posts: 620
From: Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 2015


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post03-15-2017 02:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero ViceSend a Private Message to Fiero ViceEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Interesting info, guys!

Thanks for sharing!
IP: Logged
sardonyx247
Member
Posts: 5024
From: Nevada, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


Feedback score:    (88)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 218
Rate this member

Report this Post03-16-2017 02:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post



IP: Logged
Fiero Vice
Member
Posts: 620
From: Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 2015


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post03-27-2017 09:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero ViceSend a Private Message to Fiero ViceEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Interesting article, sardonyx247!

Thanks for sharing.
IP: Logged
tshark
Member
Posts: 4374
From:
Registered: Feb 2014


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 64
Rate this member

Report this Post03-28-2017 07:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, that answers the unasked question I had about the transmission.
IP: Logged
Raydar
Member
Posts: 38613
From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country.
Registered: Oct 1999


Feedback score:    (12)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 452
Rate this member

Report this Post03-28-2017 09:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I found it interesting that the pace cars used the "milder" tune of the SD. Using a TBI, no less.
My Automoda had what I would consider a mild tune SD. Had the cast iron "775" SD head, instead of the "801" max performance head that everyone seems to want.
I always guessed that it was making around 200 HP, with the carb installed "out of the box". It felt about as quick as my 4.9. Unfortunately, I sold it before I had time to do any tuning on it.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 03-28-2017).]

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
liv4God
Member
Posts: 656
From: CA
Registered: Feb 2011


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post03-29-2017 02:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for liv4GodSend a Private Message to liv4GodEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

I found it interesting that the pace cars used the "milder" tune of the SD. Using a TBI, no less.
My Automoda had what I would consider a mild tune SD. Had the cast iron "775" SD head, instead of the "801" max performance head that everyone seems to want.
I always guessed that it was making around 200 HP, with the carb installed "out of the box". It felt about as quick as my 4.9. Unfortunately, I sold it before I had time to do any tuning on it.





One of my life goals to get an SD4! Read some interesting info about it:


25 mpg at speeds up to 125! That's really impressive. I averaged about 100+ for 50 miles with the 2.8 and used half my tank. What is that, like 9 mpg? :'(
IP: Logged

next newest topic | next oldest topic

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock