I would like to ask every member of the forum to remember to donate since we have started a new year . I do not know how Cliff keeps this site up and running when you look at the total amounts of donated for previous years . I know it takes a lot of time to create and maintain a site , and I am sure all members appreciate what this forum has to offer Fiero owners around the world . So please remember to donate , I am sure there are more than a couple of hundred members and if every member donates $1 I know the donation totals would be better than what he has received over the last couple of years and it would help Cliff can keep this forum up and running . I also want to thank Cliff and the other administrators for everything they do to offer a great site for Fiero owners everywhere . I hope everyone has a great new year and that we can all make progress on our cars .
Its simple. If you do not donate the site will eventually close. This site is supported by two servers, one in the USA and one in Europe. Not cheap to run. Its definitely worth a couple of bucks per month to have this valuable resource. Last I looked there were only a few forum supporters. The majority of the forum members here are extremely stingy.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
That is 2 people that spoke up and myself , so we just need all members to donate , After I looked at the total amount of donations over the last couple of years I do not know how Cliff keeps it going . Everyone uses and likes the forum so dig into your pockets and donate people ! Every dollar helps and you can set up automatic payments or just donate whenever you can , it is not that hard and I know there are a lot more members than there are donations . If you do not donate do not be surprised if or when Cliff decides he just can not keep the site up . Cliff and the administration do all the hard work all you have to do is donate . And it would not hurt to reach out and thank them every now and then also . Let's all help keep the site up because we do not want to lose access to all the forum has to offer .
Donated a couple of times the past 4 months, and will continue to every 2 or so months.
Cliff, thanks, if it was not for the forum, I would not be as "frustrated" as I am today. LOL.
There is a huge value to keeping PFF going, and I am in for long haul..... GT or Formula, or no Fiero at all, I am here. I have met through the forum a few extremely great people.... you all know who you are.
C'mon guys, this is literally the best forum I belong to, and I "belong" to quite a few. HHR, 3SI, Solstice, Cadillac, Mustang, on and on......
Another donation on it's way tomorrow morning..... as soon as I remember my PayPpal password..... hey, it's a Friday, and I try to forget everything on Fridays..... LOL
Thanks Cliff, Dave a.k.a. railshot.
and a bump for what needs to be done! Now where are those danged tail light lens molds? I could retire a "rich" man with them!!!!!
I plan on making a donation, but think it would be helpful if it was made known how much it takes to keep the forum running. It will give perspective and a goal for everyone to push towards...Like a traditional fundraiser. Sorry if this info has been made known, I just don't recall seeing it.
I plan on making a donation, but think it would be helpful if it was made known how much it takes to keep the forum running. It will give perspective and a goal for everyone to push towards...Like a traditional fundraiser. Sorry if this info has been made known, I just don't recall seeing it.
And I don't think that you will ever see this information divulged to the general population.
In speaking with a number of people in the "online forum world" its been stated that there's a vast number of ways that one can monetize a site with minimal stress / change to the general user base. I know in the past I've offered suggestions for additional banner ad links that go to amazon ( rev-sharing ) based on the amount of $$ "I spend" going to said referer ( PFF ) but this is still not yet been implemented. Again, Im not in the "inner circle" so I have no idea as to why these things have not been done. It would seem like something along these lines would be well worth the hassle involved to assist in covering one's financial obligations.
While it may be bristly to say, I personally do not think that the direct costs of running PFF are as high as Cliff would want you to believe. If one was to add in one's time into this equation for getting messes cleaned up, issues resolved, ect... that is a different story. But we're getting into business model territory and running this one man show the way he does is his decision alone to be made. Afterall, it is his site, his rules...
For years there's been a "insert warning here". The general public tires of the constant "if I don't get $$, things will close down." Lord knows I have and I'm sure that there's others as well who feel the same and are tired of it. Will there be a hole left in the interwebz for the little plastic car that could if it was to close? Sure - but in its place if the desire is strong enough there will be a replacement and things will go forward.
But to your point I agree with you - constant fire alarms for funding needed with no additional information provided does in fact cause donation fatigue. Opening the books would be akin to posting my W2's online - whose business are they of anybody to have access to them? Its along the same lines here... Its very easy to see both sides of the coin. I think that a great deal of this would be / could be potentially mitigated with an increased involvement of those who hold the server strings and more transparency as to what is being done to increase revenue without the need for the constant - have you donated thread. If your going to have a tele-thon to raise capital do it... once a year and be done with it. I think its terribly tacky to constantly see the handout with what appears to be little to no additional work done to rectify the conundrum.
But again who am I to know or hand out my two bits...
I think each of us should place a value based on our own experiences on the forum and donate based on that. If you have not gained anything, do not donate. Simple really.
Mine is based on what I have purchased from other members that I would not be able to find anywhere else, and the knowledge I have utilized from others that they have shared. Along with those two things is the fact that there are many good and honest people that frequent the forum and I totally enjoy reading the posts and adventures they have. If I can help keep it alive, it is my choice to do so based on the value I have received.
Donation sent cliff..... remembered my password today.
What it takes to keep the forum going is none of our business. Also, using this forum is not free, you pay for this forum by looking at ads. Ad revenue alone might keep the forum going but as we learned when google pulled the ads, it may not always be there. $1 monthly from enough members would not only keep this forum going for as long as cliff can keep up with it, but it would also help keep food on his table.
The elephant in the room is that forum traffic is only a trickle compared to what it used to be. And half of that is in totally off topic...aka "let me espouse my ugly political rhetoric to like minded individuals".
Most of the missing traffic has moved to Facebook where it's easier to post and easier to post pictures in particular. There is a facebook presence of PFF, why we don't all move there I don't know? The archives of PFF and the How to section are better hosted on a forum I agree, but for the day to day interactions the forum is already nearly dead. I post every once and a while and come back days later and no new posts. The forum soon will be host to nothing but radical political posts and the answer to a trivia question... "What radical political forum began life as a mid-engine car forum?"
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 02-12-2017).]
Sorry folks, I didn't mean to poke a hornet's nest by asking about $$$$$, haha. I am dumb when it comes to website hosting and associated costs, but thought it might be helpful to at least have a goal for fundraising. Any fundraiser has a goal level for the most part...It just helps give perspective and a general idea of what is required. I don't need to see an official financial statement, just a goal to shoot for.
I don't have numbers to share but it should be remembered that while this forum is open to everyone, it attracts a very limited and special audience. This is not a Chevy, Ford or general car forum. It is specific to Fieros, a very narrow segment of the overall enthusiast market. Look at the daily assortment of posters. About 80% are folks that have posted regularly for years.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Made a donation for the forum. This is the best place to learn what I need to get my '88 Formula on the road again!! Thanks for giving me the opportunity to donate.
I see the value in this forum, as newbie first-time Fiero owner. Since getting my car in October, using this forum, I've learned how to replace the fuel pump, clean out the fuel tank, check for a defective cat, found coolant hose part numbers, and several other helpful topics. I have a factory shop manual on CD, but with this site, I get color photos and feedback from other owners, as well as a library of helpful tips and creative build threads.
After trying to get this neat little car running right, I decided to donate my last remaining dollar to this forum, each month for a year. lol
This forum doesn't take much to run.. it is also very outdated... software .. If I was Cliff.. I'd do as other forums have done.. REQUIRE you to be a paying member to sell on the forum.. Server space/use for a forum with 3 times the traffic and NO AD's is 900.00 They every year have a fundraiser and those that donated are listed as supporters of the forum..
That is a server in the us. No idea what the cost is in demark.. but this forum doesn't have a server in the us.. or It not have an address of www.fiero.nl for the traffic in the us.
To many have been speed banned because they don't bow to some member. in o/t.. and have been supporting members.. and that is sad.. To many of the older members think they own the place..
If Cliff doesn't want to have a fundraiser for yearly server cost, or have those using the mall have to be supporting members.. That is up to him..
SADLY only those over in o/t are keeping this place in google ad money.. and the only reason I bother taking a beating over there.. as every post.. and clicking on the ad's to open it then close it. ad's to cliff's google funding.. No reason everyone in this forum can't post and start threads over on the o/t area.. of subjects outside political.. and then only read/open non-political threads.. yet no one really bothers.. There are non political threads over there.. and there could be tons more.. and tons more clicks/hits to the google ad's monthly numbers.. The ad's are there use it to help fund the place.. science/history/ a random thought.. another car /hobby /interest.. etc.. It's not that hard... Come over to the dark side and help keep the traffic and hits up.. so google can foot much of the bill.. no one will hold a gun to your head and force you to read or post in a political thread..
It's not that hard... Come over to the dark side and help keep the traffic and hits up.. so google can foot much of the bill.. no one will hold a gun to your head and force you to read or post in a political thread..
Uh no...
I remember the good ole days when the forum was full of posts about Fieros and Fiero shows and Fiero events. Those days are sadly behind us.
What I suggest is Cliff make the Forum Archives available on a Blu-ray disk for a nominal purchase price, and then close the forum and we all move over the totally Free Facebook site for real time discussion.
I remember the good ole days when the forum was full of posts about Fieros and Fiero shows and Fiero events. Those days are sadly behind us.
What I suggest is Cliff make the Forum Archives available on a Blu-ray disk for a nominal purchase price, and then close the forum and we all move over the totally Free Facebook site for real time discussion.
Forums like this one.. for a model car can be free with a PHPbb .. The good ole days are behind most forums as the members that have/had been on the forum longer treated new blood like crap.. and they found they don't need the ole school forums.. I'd rather the orge's cave was put on dvd(s) but it is clear he rather it die than allow the data moved to another www or a dvd/etc.. I know the tech on updates I want to do, or mods, or general tech.. I've printed out and put in a 3 ring binder.. I should've done the same with the cave, but never thought it go belly up.
Originally posted by E.Furgal: Forums like this one.. for a model car can be free with a PHPbb .. The good ole days are behind most forums as the members that have/had been on the forum longer treated new blood like crap.. and they found they don't need the ole school forums.. I'd rather the orge's cave was put on dvd(s) but it is clear he rather it die than allow the data moved to another www or a dvd/etc.. I know the tech on updates I want to do, or mods, or general tech.. I've printed out and put in a 3 ring binder.. I should've done the same with the cave, but never thought it go belly up.
You and others have no clue want costs behind any disk sold. Cliff had PFF on CD and never made enough $ to recover cost to "print" them. I have both copies. He gave second version CD as Torrent years later. I would need to charge $20 minimum for cost dealing w/ burning and shipping disks and only to find on Pirate Bay etc because some will say $20 is to much. At $20 my margin is next to nothing. Commercial printing cost even more to setup a disk, print X amount of copies then have to deal w/ shipping etc or sell to 3rd parties that eats most of profit. If I find a bug then all Commercial copies are worthless and junk and out of money for the effort.
One part of my job was to burn batches of CD of remote access software for the company... I spent days to burn label and package them and cost was not cheap for labor, burn robot, labels etc. Worse, Burned disks doesn't work in all readers/burners out there. I have to make some disks burn at very low speeds on another burner and even that had problems even w/ new player/burners on their system. If a sold disk doesn't work then have to deal w/ support returns and "review" posts saying I've selling crap or worse. Support/return cost money for me. You lose time and money and cost most then just money to the buyer.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by E.Furgal: Forums like this one.. for a model car can be free with a PHPbb .. The good ole days are behind most forums as the members that have/had been on the forum longer treated new blood like crap.. and they found they don't need the ole school forums.. I'd rather the orge's cave was put on dvd(s) but it is clear he rather it die than allow the data moved to another www or a dvd/etc.. I know the tech on updates I want to do, or mods, or general tech.. I've printed out and put in a 3 ring binder.. I should've done the same with the cave, but never thought it go belly up.
You and others have no clue want costs behind any disk sold. Cliff had PFF on CD and never made enough $ to recover cost to "print" them. I have both copies. He gave second version CD as Torrent years later. I would need to charge $20 minimum for cost dealing w/ burning and shipping disks and only to find on Pirate Bay etc because some will say $20 is to much. At $20 my margin is next to nothing. Commercial printing cost even more to setup a disk, print X amount of copies then have to deal w/ shipping etc or sell to 3rd parties that eats most of profit. If I find a bug then all Commercial copies are worthless and junk and out of money for the effort.
One part of my job was to burn batches of CD of remote access software for the company... I spent days to burn label and package them and cost was not cheap for labor, burn robot, labels etc. Worse, Burned disks doesn't work in all readers/burners out there. I have to make some disks burn at very low speeds on another burner and even that had problems even w/ new player/burners on their system. If a sold disk doesn't work then have to deal w/ support returns and "review" posts saying I've selling crap or worse. Support/return cost money for me. You lose time and money and cost most then just money to the buyer.
REALLY.. 100 dvdr disc are 19.00 I can burn them on my laptop.. loading data isn't all that hard..
As the copyright of g.m. that can be an issue.. A letter to g.m. would be all it take.. to know one way or the other.. I don't know how much in your cave isn't in a dealership service manual.. that isn't that hard to find.. most if not all the troubleshooting drill downs are the same for many g.m. models of the time as the drivetrain wasn't fiero only.and avail on the net.. . but you can also put your cave on a free phpbb and /or have it hosted by those with a web site.. but for what ever reason.. It'll go the way of the doe doe.. As for the Pirate Bay type sites.. So that makes it even easier.. you make the disc.. and sell it to someone you know will dump it on there.. done.. now anyone that wants the info can get it if they like going to places like that.. MANY will not go on sites like that and would order the disc. and it be a burn it as needed.. it's not the year 2000 that a dvd burner was huge money to own so you had to outsource it.
or to make it worth it, this can be done
Many more would download a PDF of the cave and then burn it or print it out..
This can be also done.. and force a group sale of x # of downloads before it is "live" so that you'd not care if it got on a file share site.. and make it worth it.. sure it's sad that there are members that would never pay for it.. and wait till it made it to the file share.. but if you have to have a group sale and pre paid # met.. if it doesn't get to it.. no one gets it..
[This message has been edited by E.Furgal (edited 02-15-2017).]
SADLY only those over in o/t are keeping this place in google ad money... No reason everyone in this forum can't post and start threads over on the o/t area... Come over to the dark side...
When I take a quick peek over at O/T and see that there are currently 16(!) threads running on the front page that were started by a previously banned member who now posts under a different username... I'm not interested. O/T appears to have become his personal blogspace. No thanks.
[EDIT] As of 01:51 PM on February 18th, there are currently 18 threads (out of a total of 37) on page one of O/T started by this same guy. Something's desperately out of kilter with this.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 02-18-2017).]
When I take a quick peek over at O/T and see that there are currently 16(!) threads running on the front page that were started by a previously banned member who now posts under a different username... I'm not interested. O/T appears to have become his personal blogspace. No thanks.
Only 16? There must have been a shortage of clickbait on the internet tabloids this month.
I don't remember speculating on the cost of burning a DVD. I sugested Blu-ray by the way assuming that the database is in the 50GB range. Even if it cost $100 I would rather pay that once to have a permanent archive rather than to keep pouring money into a dying forum. The Vitriol in T/OT is the only thing keeping the forum alive and that is an even sadder ending to a once glorious forum. I say cut losses, archive and pull the plug.
I don't remember speculating on the cost of burning a DVD. I sugested Blu-ray by the way assuming that the database is in the 50GB range. Even if it cost $100 I would rather pay that once to have a permanent archive rather than to keep pouring money into a dying forum. The Vitriol in T/OT is the only thing keeping the forum alive and that is an even sadder ending to a once glorious forum. I say cut losses, archive and pull the plug.
Understandable Jonathon, and you aren't the first person to advocate it, but allow me to ask this: If OT could be (somehow) cleaned up to the point it is once again an enjoyable place to converse, would you still be in favor of the entire website's demise?
I don't remember speculating on the cost of burning a DVD. I sugested Blu-ray by the way assuming that the database is in the 50GB range. Even if it cost $100 I would rather pay that once to have a permanent archive rather than to keep pouring money into a dying forum. The Vitriol in T/OT is the only thing keeping the forum alive and that is an even sadder ending to a once glorious forum. I say cut losses, archive and pull the plug.
Do you still have a Fiero?? if you do, do you still need tech info or do you already have it all? In otherwords, because the fiero end of the forum has no real use to you, you don't care if it goes belly up..
AGAIN.. the threads in o/t.. are there as some post threads.. YET those posting that it is only full of vitriol and such. have not started any threads with different subjects , or they might start one every 3 months.. but complain about the content.. Members control and steer the content by starting threads of different subject matter outside the forums goal, in this case the goal of the forum was for fiero owners to have a place to ask questions, and show off their cars/builds/ideas. o/t is EXTRA.. The threads subject the members DRIVE... but it's easier to complain than to maybe start threads of things that interest you of other subjects than what is post there now.. THE other part is the snowflakes that claim they can't take the bad vibe from over there.. GUESS this members have someone holding a gun to their heads to read threads they know will get them panties in a wad..
Cliff has been banned once already by Google just for some "adult" posts in TOT. Is only a matter of time before they will barf on posts from a few users for Google anti-racist and other policies.
Cliff has been banned once already by Google just for some "adult" posts in TOT. Is only a matter of time before they will barf on posts from a few users for Google anti-racist and other policies.
total b/s and you know it.. or are you going to claim that there are not political forums?? sure facebook and google that funnel a biased narrative will delete. but to think o/t is alive only because of that is well totalb/s as there are hundreds of political forums to voice and talk about EVERYTHING you may or not call political..
Understandable Jonathon, and you aren't the first person to advocate it, but allow me to ask this: If OT could be (somehow) cleaned up to the point it is once again an enjoyable place to converse, would you still be in favor of the entire website's demise?
Now that I know how bad it's gotten I feel guilty coming to a forum that I know is supported by a lot of intolerant hate speech.
But if somehow it could magically be cleaned up and support the forum?? Who knows? Why is it that 90% of the threads are started by a particular individual? The whole section has turned into his personal page. I threw up in my mouth a little just looking at the thread titles.
My biggest complaint is that the forum is outdated and more importantly just doesn't have enough traffic to warrant coming here more than once every couple of days. As a library it's invaluable, but that could easily be put on a DVD. You don't need a forum to serve as an archive.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 02-17-2017).]
Do you still have a Fiero?? if you do, do you still need tech info or do you already have it all? In otherwords, because the fiero end of the forum has no real use to you, you don't care if it goes belly up..
Did you completely miss the part where I said to burn the archives onto a DVD? Virtually every technical topic has been covered at one point or another. Almost nothing new can be posted in technical. Which is why I said burn it to DVD. As for real time Fiero chat move that to facebook. The stuff that goes on in T/OT I don't care what happens to that.
Now that I know how bad it's gotten I feel guilty coming to a forum that I know is supported by a lot of intolerant hate speech.
But if somehow it could magically be cleaned up and support the forum?? Who knows? Why is it that 90% of the threads are started by a particular individual? The whole section has turned into his personal page. I threw up in my mouth a little just looking at the thread titles.
My biggest complaint is that the forum is outdated and more importantly just doesn't have enough traffic to warrant coming here more than once every couple of days. As a library it's invaluable, but that could easily be put on a DVD. You don't need a forum to serve as an archive.
Thanks for the reply. I don't do FB, and have never had a FB account.. having heard so much bad stuff about it as well, mostly related to security issues. I guess I first realized the tranistion was taking place when pics from Ruckus were no longer posted here.
It doesn't do much good to un-check politics/religion either, even after TDA posted a thread just last week reminding everyone to properly check the right category when starting a new thread. I have both disabled and just on Pg1, I counted roughly 8 threads that should not have been checked "general".
quote
Please take a moment and click the proper button when you create a thread. Filters are there for a reason. Political and Religious threads shouldn't be clicked "general" for instance... Thanks.
And of course, it's common for some people to raise both subjects in 'general' threads at some point just to aggravate someone.
OT may get more traffic than GFC, but to me it mostly seems to be from a smaller group of members than I see just scanning down Pg1 in GFC. I see more different names here in General than in OT--both as thread starters and 'last post' participants.
I do miss having a Fiero and if I could still get in one, I'd probably get another. Miss going to Ruckus and seeing all the folks a lot, but it's so hard to get away from home with the cows and fences I have to take care of.
Did you completely miss the part where I said to burn the archives onto a DVD? Virtually every technical topic has been covered at one point or another. Almost nothing new can be posted in technical. Which is why I said burn it to DVD. As for real time Fiero chat move that to facebook. The stuff that goes on in T/OT I don't care what happens to that.
Tell ya what.. I can set up a phpbb that cost me zero and have it fiero o/t and cliff can link it like he did with the cave.. and then kill the o/t here.. and when withing a year pff is a 404 error.. I guess you'll be happy.. I can set up the phpbb in a day.. and o/t can be linked by cliff within an hour after that. and clicking o/t would only list the new link.. you'll get what you want.. as it's clear that there is a gun to your head to open and read things.. this way it won't even be on the same board/server.. only a link..
Cliff knows that would be death to the forum and so do most members.. Sure it sounds good.. And many would claim they make up the slack on the funding.. but like those that in the mall when a part is being looked at for be made with claim "I'm in" when the part is avail. it's crickets.. [u] don't like the content/subject matter over on o/t.. start posting other interest/subjects.. instead of cry'n about it.. Those type threads only start and gain steam if someone starts them.. Everyone has different interest outside this model car.. start a thread or threads on those things.. instead of cry'n about what some are finding interest in.. who knows they might just find your interest also interesting..
FYI a replacement fiero forum can be made on a phpbb board for free.. and only have to post photo's through image shack/photo hosting sights or linked from your f/b page or twitter link. If this place ever goes.. This is what would happen, but you'd loose all the old tech/etc.. you'd have copy/paste it to a new page/forum before this one went dark.. If cliff is out of funds to foot the bill, this type phpbb would be ideal for him to move to.. There is a reason he hasn't..
[This message has been edited by E.Furgal (edited 02-17-2017).]
don't like the content/subject matter over on o/t.. start posting other interest/subjects.. instead of cry'n about it.. Those type threads only start and gain steam if someone starts them.. Everyone has different interest outside this model car.. start a thread or threads on those things.. instead of cry'n about what some are finding interest in.. who knows they might just find your interest also interesting..
That's been tried, more than once over the years. The new religous/politic threads just push the other interests off the page. This is not the first time a single member decided to flood OT with dozens of threads/month (mostly about the same thing) . The most recent was when another member did it during a different political cycle, till there were so many complaints Cliff stepped in and told him to condense his daily "news feed" into just a few threads. That was one of that member's rationalizations, that he was "providing a news feed for those that didn't have one" tho the vast majority of his C&P articles were from blogs, newsmax, drdge and "got this in email today". 2009-2010 One person posted:
quote
8 new threads posted Friday/Saturday.
His response:
quote
Expect even more today.
He even dared people to neg him for it, pointing out he had over 400 ratings with most positive. IF I remember correctly, it wasn't long afterwards Cliff implemented the 'nudge' feature so no one could hide behind a green bar. He's still here, and outside that time period, has returned to being an asset to the board.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 02-17-2017).]
Originally posted by E.Furgal: Server space/use for a forum with 3 times the traffic and NO AD's is 900.00
I don't know what Cliff pays, but this is just wildly inaccurate.
I host several different sites on a shared server, with unlimited storage and bandwidth, and it's less than $300 for THREE YEARS, or about $5/month if splitting up the cost per month. It's cheaper than Netflix. Domain name registrations add to the cost, but only minimally, unless you start buying all kinds of insane domains that cost in the range of $30+/year.
The new religious/politic threads just push the other interests off the page.
And of course, it's common for some people to raise both subjects in 'general' threads at some point just to aggravate someone.
Yeah, after umpteen years of that I just got fed up and left O/T. The threads (and the people who started them) used to be more diverse, but it now appears that a few bitter individuals have basically taken over that section of the forum. Kind of a shame.
Tell ya what.. I can set up a phpbb that cost me zero and have it fiero o/t and cliff can link it like he did with the cave.. and then kill the o/t here.. and when withing a year pff is a 404 error.. I guess you'll be happy.. I can set up the phpbb in a day.. and o/t can be linked by cliff within an hour after that. and clicking o/t would only list the new link.. you'll get what you want.. as it's clear that there is a gun to your head to open and read things.. this way it won't even be on the same board/server.. only a link..
Cliff knows that would be death to the forum and so do most members.. Sure it sounds good.. And many would claim they make up the slack on the funding.. but like those that in the mall when a part is being looked at for be made with claim "I'm in" when the part is avail. it's crickets.. [u] don't like the content/subject matter over on o/t.. start posting other interest/subjects.. instead of cry'n about it.. Those type threads only start and gain steam if someone starts them.. Everyone has different interest outside this model car.. start a thread or threads on those things.. instead of cry'n about what some are finding interest in.. who knows they might just find your interest also interesting..
FYI a replacement fiero forum can be made on a phpbb board for free.. and only have to post photo's through image shack/photo hosting sights or linked from your f/b page or twitter link. If this place ever goes.. This is what would happen, but you'd loose all the old tech/etc.. you'd have copy/paste it to a new page/forum before this one went dark.. If cliff is out of funds to foot the bill, this type phpbb would be ideal for him to move to.. There is a reason he hasn't..
You are a difficult person to have a rational conversation with. You must spend all your time in T/OT and forgotten what normal conversation is like? You have forgotten how to not twist someone's words, forgotten how to listen, ignore points that others are making, make up your own facts as you go along.
Whatever.
Do whatever you like. I come here for Fiero information. Not to be insulted, ignored, made fun of, words inserted into my mouth. I'm done with this thread. You are what's wrong with this forum and killing it. I love what PFF USED to be, but it's already dead.
Originally posted by E.Furgal: total b/s and you know it..
Nope but You and some others have no clue or pretend you don't.
US First Amendment Rights often do not apply to/on Private Property. Google FB including "old school" BBS/Forums are Private Properties And that's ignoring Most will force TOS and other Contracts saying We Have All Rights to remove anything and ban anyone.You accept the TOS just by using them. In many TOS Contracts the users give away most to all Rights to FB etc but you and most others don't bother to read them. You often can't sue because most TOS and EULAs now have Arbitration Causes to stop Class Action and other lawsuits. (Even MS added Arbitration to EULAs for Win8 & up and others.)
Most if not all topics in TOT will get you banned on other Forums because general Religion Politics etc are forbidden topics on many Car, Computer, Gun, and other forums. Unlike Cliff, They don't want Flame Wars that eats server bandwidth at minimum and They will remove your post often in minutes and warn or ban 1st time depending exactly what is posted. Example: Many Gun forums wants gun related posts only. No where can you ask a Computer Q unless maybe the problem is running gun software like calc/Database programs to reload shells. They Might cover 2nd Amendment issues but often general politics are not allowed at any time and such posts will be removed and user(s) warned or banned.
lol
