Pennock's Fiero Forum
  General Fiero Chat
  RockAuto is committing fraud (Page 1)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version

This topic is 2 pages long:  1   2 
Previous Page | Next Page
next newest topic | next oldest topic
RockAuto is committing fraud by paulsobj
Started on: 12-18-2016 09:08 PM
Replies: 43 (1439 views)
Last post by: DotTC on 12-23-2016 12:45 PM
paulsobj
Member
Posts: 158
From: New Prague, MN
Registered: Nov 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-18-2016 09:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for paulsobjClick Here to Email paulsobjSend a Private Message to paulsobjEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I ordered a hub from Rock Auto, specifically Timken 513013. I used them because they had the best price while not some crazy third party based in a foreign country. I didn't input a car that I need a bearing for but ordered the part specifically. A box showed up with no seal on the mfg box and the correct part number on the box. When I opened the box I see a very different part. I see a part number GSP 104016. The bolt pattern and hub center are correct but the back side that goes into the upright was significantly larger. I planned in machining it down as documented by foeroguru's S10 hub thread. The bearing itself was so much larger that I would machine it into the ball bearings. So I call up Rock Auto and they proceed to tell me that it's normal to have a part show up that is from a different mfg and that the specs are the same so it doesn't matter. Amazon price check: Timken 513013 = $104 and GSP 104016 = $35. I am willing to bet that they are not the same quality. I don't understand how this isn't fraud. It's not like I said I need a bearing to fit a car. I said I want a TIMKEN 513013 AND they even placed it in a box to make it seem like I got what I ordered. I will never use them again as many times parts are not marked. I wonder how many of the parts I have from them are sub par quality. I returned the part within an hour and ordered one off amazon.
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
RWDPLZ
Member
Posts: 14409
From: Michigan
Registered: May 2002


Feedback score:    (11)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 295
Rate this member

Report this Post12-18-2016 09:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Someone probably ordered a cheap one and the Timken, put the cheap one in the TImken box, and returned it.

Contact Timken with pictures of the unit, they'll be a lot more interested than Rock Auto. I don't order from them anymore unless I'm desperate, too many wrong parts.
IP: Logged
paulsobj
Member
Posts: 158
From: New Prague, MN
Registered: Nov 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-18-2016 09:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for paulsobjClick Here to Email paulsobjSend a Private Message to paulsobjEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It is possible that someone pulled a fast one but rockauto said that the part I got should work. So it sounds like it's a normal thing for them to send off brand parts. I would think your correct but they just kept trying to tell me I was fine even after they knew it was miss boxed.
IP: Logged
Slammed
Member
Posts: 779
From: Sumner, WA
Registered: Mar 2015


Feedback score:    (8)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 79
Rate this member

Report this Post12-18-2016 09:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SlammedClick Here to Email SlammedSend a Private Message to SlammedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's what he said above, it's a screw up from a return or warehouse mismatch. I've ordered hundreds of parts from Rockauto and this stuff happens occasionally. The service people are clueless, which is why they have that extremely frustrating online return system
IP: Logged
fierofool
Member
Posts: 11867
From: Auburn, Georgia USA
Registered: Jan 2002


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 151
Rate this member

Report this Post12-19-2016 01:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I recently ordered 2 Raybestos brake calipers but was sent Wagner calipers. Due to problems with them, they were returned and I purchased calipers locally. They were in the same box as the Rock Auto units came in. Same hardware and same number stamped on them in black. The ones I got locally were Duralast.

I did, however, purchase 2 rear hubs on a closeout sale a year or so ago. They were supposed to be Moog. The box has Made In USA stamped into it. I have to assume they are Moog because there's nothing on them to disprove (or verify) they are Moog.
IP: Logged
JetroGT
Member
Posts: 1873
From: Manchester, TN
Registered: Jul 99


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-19-2016 03:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JetroGTSend a Private Message to JetroGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Last year I worked a second job at a parts warehouse. I had to re-box and relabel many parts. Basically, Dura-last is carquest is moog is import direct is what ever. Moog was slightly different. The rubber boot on ball joints had to say moog. lol
IP: Logged
hyperv6
Member
Posts: 5487
From: Clinton, OH, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post12-19-2016 07:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well what happened here is not Fraud and not likely a misbox.

The truth is Timken and most other bearing hub companies buy their hubs from another company and repackage them as their own. Some are made in America some are made over seas. You also can not buy them by photos or sight as often they will change a little in later designs.

I work for Large auto parts firm and had this explained by one of the vendors and also have seen the complaints only to find out that they all are of the same style by an outside supplier to a major firm.

The reality is in today's market for even a company to make bearings for as many cars out there they have to outsource their production as they would have to charge so much you would not buy it anyways.

Most of these bearings are all coming from the same place and to be honest you can not judge them based on looks and or their origin. The vast majority are as good as OE and in some cases better. We seldom have warranty issues with them.

Also you will have a major problem in many cases finding a different hub since many times this is the only one you will get.

The major problem with many Americans is they have miss judged and underestimated the Chinese thinking that all they make is crap. We need to stop this before they take our lunch and eat it too as anymore they have gotten to the point they are now equal or in some cases better than us on many items. Any country that build the I phone can easily billed a hub of top quality.

It is time to stop judging China based on Harbor Freight and understand we need to start doing a better job here of keep our jobs and improving our own quality to compete in the world. Others like India are now challenging China on automotive parts so we need to wake up and realize we are in a global market. I see so many name brand parts made in India anymore.

I am not here supporting China by any means I am only telling the truth and in some cases it is too late to save some things. But these hubs are just an example of what is going on in many fields any more.

Anymore I see good and bad parts from everywhere including here. You can not go by the name as to where it was made and you can not judge the quality by where it was made. Then you also may not have any choice as what you have may only be made in one place anymore.

Now as it goes for reboxing. we do that with our in house products and in some cases it is a no name product that is from China. In other cases it is a well known name brand in some cases in the original packing reboxed in our box. You may save $10-$20 with these off brands with the same part in our box. If we do have any quality issues we shut it down fast.

But I know for a fact here on the Timken hubs not all are Timken made and in some cases with other brands I have seen Timken in boxes of other MFG too. It is a wild wacky world out there.

One caution on any auto web site do not order by the photo. Most MFG will send photos to use and so often that is not the part you get in the box. Most time they call it a representation of the part. This is one of the biggest mistakes people make even with the warning on the photo that it may not be the actual part.

As for the price differences I have seen very large mark up's on the same part by a name brand MFG that re boxes. It is not uncommon.

While I am a competitor or Rock Auto I will tell you they did not thing wrong here. The parts packaged are not their responsibility. The best they can do is exchange it out if it really is a miss box or if it is a same part sold by two MFG give a refund or explain what is going on. This has been a real problem for retailers as it is out of our hands. We often will before sending a second part out find that the part in the box is what it is when we inspect it on the second try. We can not inspect them on the first try or you would be several more days getting your parts and out of the millions of parts you would only find a small percentage of a percentage that is wrong.

I hope everyone follows here. It is not a perfect situation by any means but it is what it is. So much of this is out of the hands of the retailer and customer anymore and is a very common practice. As for China grasp the reality they are now dangerous as they can make things as well and in some cases better than us anymore. The myth of only cheap parts from China is over. MFG have changed the way they do things and you can not judge them any more as we once did. If it is a crazy low price it may tip you off but if it is just a little lower or the same odds are it is a very good parts. Finally again in some cases they just don't make it here anymore. Just try to get a smart phone made here anymore.

IP: Logged
hyperv6
Member
Posts: 5487
From: Clinton, OH, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post12-19-2016 07:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

hyperv6

5487 posts
Member since Mar 2003
 
quote
Originally posted by JetroGT:

Last year I worked a second job at a parts warehouse. I had to re-box and relabel many parts. Basically, Dura-last is carquest is moog is import direct is what ever. Moog was slightly different. The rubber boot on ball joints had to say moog. lol


Many Moog parts are made in India anymore. I hear complains on that but they don't make them here anymore. Most engine mounts made of rubber are also made there too.

Many larger parts are boxed here but the parts in the box are made all over.

Some intakes are cast in China and they are machined here to say made in America.

Most cams are made here and many no matter what the brand are turned by the same MFG by a name you never heard of since they are not a retail name.

Most lifters are made in Chile by the same company for most MFG.

It goes on no matter the brand.

IP: Logged
olejoedad
Member
Posts: 14238
From: Clarendon Twp., MI
Registered: May 2004


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 191
Rate this member

Report this Post12-19-2016 08:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't buy from Rock Auto or any other mail-order supplier.
Even though there may be a small savings, it is important to me to spend my money in the local economy. It is important to me to keep brick and mortar stores in my area, and keep my neighbors employed. I like to see the part when I purchase it, and talk to the guy on the other side of the counter. I have a long term relationship with him as a customer, and the pricing he gives me is, in many instances, lower than the mail order supplier where I am just an address.
Every dollar I spend locally is respent locally seven times according to the experts.
It helps to keep my community strong.
IP: Logged
jaskispyder
Member
Posts: 21510
From: Northern MI
Registered: Jun 2002


Feedback score:    (22)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 205
Rate this member

Report this Post12-19-2016 08:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Never had a problem with rock auto parts. Most of the parts I need are not something local places stock, so I order online, just like they do. I would be happy to buy locally, if they stocked the parts. But I can get a chrome air freshener at the local parts store
IP: Logged
olejoedad
Member
Posts: 14238
From: Clarendon Twp., MI
Registered: May 2004


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 191
Rate this member

Report this Post12-19-2016 09:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Any parts not stocked in-store are either shipped in from another store or from their warehouse.
Most everything I need can be picked up the next morning.
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
paulsobj
Member
Posts: 158
From: New Prague, MN
Registered: Nov 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-19-2016 09:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for paulsobjClick Here to Email paulsobjSend a Private Message to paulsobjEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I will try to address a few replies here.

Lets assume for conversation that this was not a reboxed return someone did.

Lets assume that auto parts stores sell off brand parts.

I don't get why a company thinks it's ok to advertise not a part that will fix a car but a specific brand and part number that has specific specs and tolerances. If I go buy a GMC and a Chevy shows up...I didn't pay for a Chevy even if it is the same. I buy a NAPA oil filter and a WIX shows up... Yes they both will get the job done, same mfg and can do the same things but its not what I paid for. I based my purchase off the picture, the part number and the specs listed on their site. I didn't care much of the pic as yes many times they are incorrect stock pics. If you are going to rebox parts then don't list incorrect information.

As far as the overseas parts go. I was referring to small third party websites that are more likely to pull something like this. They don't rely on reputation to sell parts. They rely on excessively cheap prices that people are willing to take a risk to save money. I found a $800 camera lens once on a third party site for $600. But I didn't use them as I saw too many red flags (excessively marked down and unknown retailer). It had nothing to do with quality of mfg.

My two cents on China steel mfg is they are not as good as U.S. They get most of their steel from us as scrap and we get more from ore. BUT China is improving every year. You cant create a sector when it doesn't exist. Why do you think that rich countries buy a fighter jet from us and not build their own?

I do think this is Rockautos problem and fault. If I buy a car that turns out to be a lemon I don't blame the mfg that made it. I blame the person who told me it wasn't and sold it to me. Just because it's common doesn't make them right.

Is it ok that bank give out subprime loans to people that cannot afford them? Well even if its legal and common doesn't make it right. Although I will be the one to argue that its the persons fault to get a subprime loan. The banks don't give you false information to base you decision on.
IP: Logged
hyperv6
Member
Posts: 5487
From: Clinton, OH, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post12-19-2016 09:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The truth is Auto Zone and other large chains killed most local stores . Been the and saw it happen.

Mail order filled the void as the Chains can't get it all as they buy friom us to take care of their customers outside their own channels.

To be honest many of the large retailers have bailed out many of the large brand name you know well. If not got mail order these companies would be gone.

It works much different than you think out side of NAPA.
IP: Logged
css9450
Member
Posts: 5036
From: Glen Ellyn, Illinois, USA
Registered: Nov 2002


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 82
Rate this member

Report this Post12-19-2016 10:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Click Here to Email css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Even the chain stores can be hit-or-miss both in availability and pricing.

A couple years ago, I needed a motor mount. Based on what I saw at Advance, Autozone and Pep Boys, the aforementioned Indian-made mounts (brand name=Anchor) seem to be the only game in town besides factory GM parts. Autozone had it listed as $99, but out of stock. Special order only. Advance wanted $138. Pep Boys wanted a staggering $200, but hey, at least it was in stock! Rock Auto wanted just $54 and I ordered it from them. Unfortunately, it didn't fit properly because some of the bolt holes were different; perhaps a difference between the 2.2 and 2.4-liter engines. I returned it, and not wanting to go through the same issue with another one bought locally, I wound up getting it from Tom at crateenginedepot.com for $79. Genuine GM part too.
IP: Logged
hyperv6
Member
Posts: 5487
From: Clinton, OH, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post12-19-2016 11:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I can get GM parts at work for the things no one else makes. One company that has really come a long way and offers many parts for new vehicles is Doorman and their satellite companies.

They not only offer many hard to find parts but many of the replacement parts are upgraded and fixed and will not fail as the factory replacements will.

My 08 Bu had two door locks go out as they are commonly known to do. I replaced them with the Doorman and they were made better and do not fail. Same on many of their other parts too. They don't have it all covered but they have much more than people realize.

Also I needed a new Delay board for the wipers on my old Sonoma years ago. The dealer wanted big money for the entire wiper. Well NAPA had a board to fix the delay feature for $15 vs. The $200 they wanted at the dealer.

I have been at this for over 20 years and the market has really changed some for the better some for the worse. I am lucky to be on the side that is growing but it is hard to say where things will be in 10 years as it is ever changing. My firm has done a good job of keeping up with the market and many of our competitions that were neck and neck are now no longer on the radar. But when one goes down one or two more pop up.

The 800 pound gorilla in the room is Amazon. If they ever get it together they could do a lot of damage to not just local but all internet companies.. Right now they have no real help in choosing parts and if you get the wrong ones it can be difficult compared to others service.

But with that said today price is everything and most people will shop with Satan if they would save a few bucks.

Today it is all about volume and even with out the web the local stores private stores would be in a world of hurt as they just do not move enough product. If they did not move more the many MFG would fail and prices also would go out of site.

While some are getting crushed moving forward the truth is even if we stayed the same most home owned places would not have lasted anyways unless they were tied into a large volume firm like NAPA.

Note I do not work for NAPA but I do recommend the well run stores for the hard to find things. I tip my hat to them even as a competitor.
IP: Logged
hyperv6
Member
Posts: 5487
From: Clinton, OH, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post12-19-2016 11:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

hyperv6

5487 posts
Member since Mar 2003
 
quote
Originally posted by css9450:

Even the chain stores can be hit-or-miss both in availability and pricing.

A couple years ago, I needed a motor mount. Based on what I saw at Advance, Autozone and Pep Boys, the aforementioned Indian-made mounts (brand name=Anchor) seem to be the only game in town besides factory GM parts. Autozone had it listed as $99, but out of stock. Special order only. Advance wanted $138. Pep Boys wanted a staggering $200, but hey, at least it was in stock! Rock Auto wanted just $54 and I ordered it from them. Unfortunately, it didn't fit properly because some of the bolt holes were different; perhaps a difference between the 2.2 and 2.4-liter engines. I returned it, and not wanting to go through the same issue with another one bought locally, I wound up getting it from Tom at crateenginedepot.com for $79. Genuine GM part too.


Anchor is a major supplier anymore and most imported from India. Many name brands are their stuff in a different package.

Mounts are not like they used to be either. It sued to be one mount would fit many years and often models but today there may be 3 mounts for the same car in one year. Some can change even mid years or depending on where the car was built.

Even with computers it is very difficult to know what fits what anymore.
IP: Logged
Mickey_Moose
Member
Posts: 7292
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: May 2001


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 142
Rate this member

Report this Post12-19-2016 05:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageClick Here to Email Mickey_MooseSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Call Rockauto and let them fix the problem.

I have ordered many times from them (way cheaper for a lot of stuff than I can buy locally - even with shipping). Had a couple of problems; once they sent the wrong part, called them and they sent a replacement out right away (didn't want the other returned) and the second time was a defective part, again informed them (via email) and they sent out a replacement no argument (also didn't want the original one back). Always got what I ordered otherwise.

IP: Logged
JohnWPB
Member
Posts: 5156
From: West Palm Beach, Florida
Registered: May 2009


Feedback score:    (21)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 143
Rate this member

Report this Post12-19-2016 06:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
As far as I can see, and also think, this is fraud. To get a box, that a different part was put into by mistake happens. When you tell them that you received the wrong part, and they try to convince you to go ahead and use it that IS fraud, no questions asked. I do not know if it qualifies specifically for the bait and switch laws, but quite possibly.

The correct thing for them to have done when you called, would be to apologize, and immediately send you out the CORRECT part, and a way to return the incorrect one back to them with no new shipping charges.

I would ask them "If they are the same part, as you just told me, I would like the Timken 513013 for the $35 price of the GSP 104016". See what they say then
IP: Logged
steve308
Member
Posts: 3508
From: Stafford VA
Registered: Jan 2008


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 51
Rate this member

Report this Post12-19-2016 06:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for steve308Send a Private Message to steve308Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I worked in the aftermarket auto parts industry for 20 years and I can assure you the re-boxing, labeling and number changing is a daily occurrence. I remember the first time I re-boxed Airtex into Carter fuel pumps doing a changeover, I just knew I would be going to jail! I had been in the golf business (PGA Professional) and if you took a Munsingwear shirt and sewed an Izod alligator label on it you would have gone to jail so it was a culture shock to say the least. I know for a fact that there are a few 'brokers' who specialize in buying and selling merchandise that has been 'lifted' for pennies on the dollar and this type of merchandise provides a great bottom line enhancement for the eventual reseller. Thru groups like Rock Auto I have received NAPA / TRIO wipers, Parts Master / Standard wires and other 'private label' items. Their site has always listed the items as 'private label'. Parts that are 'world sourced' or are distributed from a single manufacture to multiple distribution outlets are simply re-boxed or labeled as needed. The problem the OP has experienced is when a 'second line' is put into the topline box and is sold as such. This should never happen, but unfortunately it does.

IP: Logged
fierofool
Member
Posts: 11867
From: Auburn, Georgia USA
Registered: Jan 2002


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 151
Rate this member

Report this Post12-19-2016 07:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by steve308:

The problem the OP has experienced is when a 'second line' is put into the topline box and is sold as such. This should never happen, but unfortunately it does.


Yes. I bought an oil pressure sender at an AC Delco dealer in an AC Delco box. When I got home and opened it, inside was a BWD box with the sender inside.
IP: Logged
hyperv6
Member
Posts: 5487
From: Clinton, OH, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post12-19-2016 08:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by steve308:

I worked in the aftermarket auto parts industry for 20 years and I can assure you the re-boxing, labeling and number changing is a daily occurrence. I remember the first time I re-boxed Airtex into Carter fuel pumps doing a changeover, I just knew I would be going to jail! I had been in the golf business (PGA Professional) and if you took a Munsingwear shirt and sewed an Izod alligator label on it you would have gone to jail so it was a culture shock to say the least. I know for a fact that there are a few 'brokers' who specialize in buying and selling merchandise that has been 'lifted' for pennies on the dollar and this type of merchandise provides a great bottom line enhancement for the eventual reseller. Thru groups like Rock Auto I have received NAPA / TRIO wipers, Parts Master / Standard wires and other 'private label' items. Their site has always listed the items as 'private label'. Parts that are 'world sourced' or are distributed from a single manufacture to multiple distribution outlets are simply re-boxed or labeled as needed. The problem the OP has experienced is when a 'second line' is put into the topline box and is sold as such. This should never happen, but unfortunately it does.


Ah yes the fuel pump issues. I have seen the same pump sold by 4 different companies and at 4 different prices. LOL.

If people really knew how few companies are making some parts and how many different brands there are.

Heck GM even does it as their blue ignition boxes are MSD. Their gauges are Autometer. Lift kits at Mopar used to be Trailmater and were still marked on the springs.

The fact is many of these companies can not afford to make everything themselves anymore and they outsource them and private label them. The truth is if you do your home work you learn that many times you can buy name brand under a private label at much less the cost and have the same damn part.

It is not fraud they delivered the part that fits the car and it was sold by them. That old belly ache has been around for years and no one has ever won at that game. It is amazing how many back yard mechanics can become lawyers when they feel jilted.

We see the same on TVs. As there are only a few companies that make them and even less that make the screens. The house brand TV at Best Buys was Visio for years and they had a week rep because their own brand was sold only by Walmart as the cheap models. Today they sell some of the better models around.

The I phone has had screens made by Samsung in the past and may still have today.

Even during tire strikes Firestone has made Goodrich tires and Goodyear has made Firestone to help each other out in the past.

As for the hub here I would make sure it is the correct one and just use it. The odds are great you will send it back and just get the same on in another MFG box. It happens often as often some applications are only made by one MFG and that is why they are reboxed. If not only one company would sell it and odds are it would not be cheap.

FYI this stuff has been going on for a long time and is nothing new. Companies have made parts for others for years and also rebadge product for their own use for even more.

Sears cordless power tools. Ryobi. Sears appliances a mix of Whirlpool and LG.

GM cars like the Camaro and Trans Am in the later years just rebadged and repackage but yet the same car mechanically. I never saw anyone claim Fraud on Pontiac for just rebadging and making some small changes to make a Firebird. or even a GTP etc.

GM corporate engines? it is all around you everyday.
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
wgpierce
Member
Posts: 371
From: Australia
Registered: Aug 2016


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-20-2016 05:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wgpierceSend a Private Message to wgpierceEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by paulsobj:


My two cents on China steel mfg is they are not as good as U.S. They get most of their steel from us as scrap and we get more from ore.


Pretty sure this is false. I know that China has gotten a lot of ore from Australia, and they make lots of their own steel from it. Even if it were true, what makes you think US mgs don't also use scrap steel?

IP: Logged
paulsobj
Member
Posts: 158
From: New Prague, MN
Registered: Nov 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-20-2016 07:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for paulsobjClick Here to Email paulsobjSend a Private Message to paulsobjEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by wgpierce:


Pretty sure this is false. I know that China has gotten a lot of ore from Australia, and they make lots of their own steel from it. Even if it were true, what makes you think US mgs don't also use scrap steel?


Not saying we don't use scrap, I said use more ore. I was saying that China has used more scrap to ore ratio in the past. The US still does but at a smaller ratio. BUT I am by all means not qualified to answer this question. I dad works with steel mfg for a large mfg company. He is still not qualified but more then I am.
IP: Logged
hyperv6
Member
Posts: 5487
From: Clinton, OH, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post12-20-2016 08:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Steel no matter where it is made is made to a specification and everyone makes good and bad depending on what the customer wants.

IP: Logged
jaskispyder
Member
Posts: 21510
From: Northern MI
Registered: Jun 2002


Feedback score:    (22)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 205
Rate this member

Report this Post12-20-2016 08:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

Any parts not stocked in-store are either shipped in from another store or from their warehouse.
Most everything I need can be picked up the next morning.


Not what I need.... it is "we can have it shipped... and you pay shipping".

Plus, with the local places, I am at the mercy of what products they offer. With online, I can buy the part I WANT.
IP: Logged
paulsobj
Member
Posts: 158
From: New Prague, MN
Registered: Nov 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-20-2016 08:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for paulsobjClick Here to Email paulsobjSend a Private Message to paulsobjEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:

Steel no matter where it is made is made to a specification and everyone makes good and bad depending on what the customer wants.


Like how I wanted a bearing with certain specs and I didn't get what I ordered? Im sure that only happens in the auto parts industry...
IP: Logged
E.Furgal
Member
Posts: 11708
From: LAND OF CONFUSION
Registered: Mar 2012


Feedback score:    (23)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 278
User Banned

Report this Post12-20-2016 08:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by paulsobj:

I ordered a hub from Rock Auto, specifically Timken 513013. I used them because they had the best price while not some crazy third party based in a foreign country. I didn't input a car that I need a bearing for but ordered the part specifically. A box showed up with no seal on the mfg box and the correct part number on the box. When I opened the box I see a very different part. I see a part number GSP 104016. The bolt pattern and hub center are correct but the back side that goes into the upright was significantly larger. I planned in machining it down as documented by foeroguru's S10 hub thread. The bearing itself was so much larger that I would machine it into the ball bearings. So I call up Rock Auto and they proceed to tell me that it's normal to have a part show up that is from a different mfg and that the specs are the same so it doesn't matter. Amazon price check: Timken 513013 = $104 and GSP 104016 = $35. I am willing to bet that they are not the same quality. I don't understand how this isn't fraud. It's not like I said I need a bearing to fit a car. I said I want a TIMKEN 513013 AND they even placed it in a box to make it seem like I got what I ordered. I will never use them again as many times parts are not marked. I wonder how many of the parts I have from them are sub par quality. I returned the part within an hour and ordered one off amazon.


No fraud..
this happens all the time.. We had to start checking all returns at the advanced I worked at, because people would buy 1 good brand, and one cheap one then return the good brand box with the cheap one in it..
Shops are some of the worst offenders..
IP: Logged
steve308
Member
Posts: 3508
From: Stafford VA
Registered: Jan 2008


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 51
Rate this member

Report this Post12-20-2016 10:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for steve308Send a Private Message to steve308Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:


Shops are some of the worst offenders..



Absolutely correct!!!
IP: Logged
hyperv6
Member
Posts: 5487
From: Clinton, OH, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post12-20-2016 10:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by paulsobj:


Like how I wanted a bearing with certain specs and I didn't get what I ordered? Im sure that only happens in the auto parts industry...


If it is not what you wanted return it for a refund or exchange.

Odds are what you wanted is not available and or was a web error. There are few options out there for hubs and generally you only have one option and most come from the same source.

Advertising errors and catalog errors are very common. Re boxed parts are common coming from a common MFG and it not illegal. So many things today are available up to 5 brands yet they are all made by one MFG.

It is much like grocery stores. Kroger or Albertsons do not make their own brand can of Beans.

IP: Logged
hyperv6
Member
Posts: 5487
From: Clinton, OH, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post12-20-2016 10:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:


No fraud..
this happens all the time.. We had to start checking all returns at the advanced I worked at, because people would buy 1 good brand, and one cheap one then return the good brand box with the cheap one in it..
Shops are some of the worst offenders..


We see this often and check all returns. Yet once in a while some get through as they are not always easy to identify. Some come back painted and greasy and they stand out. Some folks try to hide it well.

If one gets out we will jump on it and swap it out fast as it should not have gotten out. With the thousands of parts our percentage is low but it still happens.

Also MFG will get mis-boxing on parts too. Once we find this we have to inspect the inventory to make sure it was a one off or was it a large number of items.

Nothing perfect and how you deal with it is the game changer out there in the real world. Our owner wants it done right and that is what we do.

One recommendation on anything. Do not remove or disassemble the vehicle till you confirm you have the right part. Too often people take things apart and then get a wrong part and then are upset they have the car apart.

Never take it apart till you confirm all the parts as you will pay the price someday. There are some cases you can not avoid it but in these cases the vehicle is expected to remain idle for a while.

IP: Logged
E.Furgal
Member
Posts: 11708
From: LAND OF CONFUSION
Registered: Mar 2012


Feedback score:    (23)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 278
User Banned

Report this Post12-20-2016 11:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Better advise is not starting fraud threads..
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
paulsobj
Member
Posts: 158
From: New Prague, MN
Registered: Nov 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-20-2016 12:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for paulsobjClick Here to Email paulsobjSend a Private Message to paulsobjEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:

Better advise is not starting fraud threads..


Don't know how its not... and your and a few other people that say "everyone does it and has been doing it for years" doesn't not make it a false statement.
IP: Logged
Dennis LaGrua
Member
Posts: 13728
From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A.
Registered: May 2000


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 322
Rate this member

Report this Post12-20-2016 12:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by wgpierce:


Pretty sure this is false. I know that China has gotten a lot of ore from Australia, and they make lots of their own steel from it. Even if it were true, what makes you think US mfgrs don't also use scrap steel?


Nearly all crushed junkyard cars and scrap steels are shipped to China for melting down and recasting. This activity takes place at our ports each day. While they are capable of making quality parts, the many manufacturers over in China face heavy competition for the auto parts that they produce. Hence it is common to lower the quality to sell at the price importers are willing to buy at. Point is that Chinese quality is erratic, some very good while others very bad. My local Autozone sends two 4' x 4' x 4' pallets full of defective and returned Chinese parts back each month. What does that tell you?

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

IP: Logged
hyperv6
Member
Posts: 5487
From: Clinton, OH, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post12-20-2016 03:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by paulsobj:


Don't know how its not... and your and a few other people that say "everyone does it and has been doing it for years" doesn't not make it a false statement.


Just see if a lawyer would take the case and you will find out fast it will not go anywhere.
IP: Logged
paulsobj
Member
Posts: 158
From: New Prague, MN
Registered: Nov 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-20-2016 03:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for paulsobjClick Here to Email paulsobjSend a Private Message to paulsobjEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:


Just see if a lawyer would take the case and you will find out fast it will not go anywhere.


Didn't say it was illegal.
IP: Logged
Gary W
Member
Posts: 1091
From: Cape Coral, FL
Registered: Oct 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-20-2016 04:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gary WClick Here to Email Gary WSend a Private Message to Gary WEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:

Steel no matter where it is made is made to a specification and everyone makes good and bad depending on what the customer wants.


^This. My experience with Chinese manufacturing - bearings specifically - is that they will make what you want. And if you keep your own inspectors on their backs they will keep making it. If you don't, they will slip in whatever poor quality stuff they have around because they can. Not trying to be bigoted but I think it's partially cultural. Part of how they "deal". If they can get away with supplying out of spec stuff, they will. In my experience, say for a specific roller bearing, they will advertise it as ABEC 5 (decent precision), and they will send you samples that all spec out to ABEC 5. However, they've carefully selected them from a batch of a million that are all over the spectrum from great to crap. If you buy 10,000, what are the chances that you're going to QC every single one of them? If you wanted quality or mission-critical you would have bought a $5.00 bearing instead of a $.98 one. They'll take that chance. So will the US distributors who source auto parts and other things from them, unless they actually care about QC and do their own oversight.
IP: Logged
Gall757
Member
Posts: 10714
From: Holland, MI
Registered: Jun 2010


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 89
Rate this member

Report this Post12-20-2016 04:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by paulsobj:


Didn't say it was illegal.


Fraud

There are a number of definitions for the word. Some are legal and some are purely social. Usually when one 'commits' fraud, it's the legal definition, and the fraud has to be done knowingly. By all the comments on this thread, it's pretty safe to say that Rock Auto is not knowingly stuffing boxes with cheaper parts. Perhaps you could argue that Rock Auto is a fraud because of sloppy business practices, but even then, Rock Auto does not control their own inventory. They are using wholesale warehouses owned by others. It's a business model developed for the internet, and the trustworthiness of the 'Mom and Pop' parts store no longer applies.
IP: Logged
rogergarrison
Member
Posts: 49593
From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio
Registered: Apr 99


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 552
Rate this member

Report this Post12-20-2016 06:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JetroGT:

Last year I worked a second job at a parts warehouse. I had to re-box and relabel many parts. Basically, Dura-last is carquest is moog is import direct is what ever. Moog was slightly different. The rubber boot on ball joints had to say moog. lol



Alll the stuff I get at Autozone are Dura last. Carquest here sells something else, forget what...havent bought anything in years since the local one moved way across town.

IP: Logged
hyperv6
Member
Posts: 5487
From: Clinton, OH, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post12-20-2016 06:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by paulsobj:


Didn't say it was illegal.


Accusing a business of fraud is generally considered a crime.

The practice of reboxing parts between MFG are and have been a common practice for years. The bearing Timken sells have for a good while been made by other MFG in many cases for applications they do not cover. It has been a common knowledge thing to most who have ever changed one.

Also just because it was not made by Timken does not mean it did not pass their specification and it is still covered under their warranty no matter the original warranty from the MFG.

Out sourcing has been common and will become more common as development and production cost continue to increase.


IP: Logged
hyperv6
Member
Posts: 5487
From: Clinton, OH, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post12-20-2016 06:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gary W:


^This. My experience with Chinese manufacturing - bearings specifically - is that they will make what you want. And if you keep your own inspectors on their backs they will keep making it. If you don't, they will slip in whatever poor quality stuff they have around because they can. Not trying to be bigoted but I think it's partially cultural. Part of how they "deal". If they can get away with supplying out of spec stuff, they will. In my experience, say for a specific roller bearing, they will advertise it as ABEC 5 (decent precision), and they will send you samples that all spec out to ABEC 5. However, they've carefully selected them from a batch of a million that are all over the spectrum from great to crap. If you buy 10,000, what are the chances that you're going to QC every single one of them? If you wanted quality or mission-critical you would have bought a $5.00 bearing instead of a $.98 one. They'll take that chance. So will the US distributors who source auto parts and other things from them, unless they actually care about QC and do their own oversight.

Thank you for your post you are someone who really knows what is going on.

We deal with a Electronics firm that makes some of out ignition parts and they are top quality and very reliable. In fact as reliable as OE of the same spec, How do they do it? They have their own American staff that lives in China full time and they oversea the production and quality of the products.

As you have stated un watched they can either do it right or try to pull a fast one.

I have a brake company that had to move their rotors to China and he told me when they follow the blue prints they do as good of a rotor as anyone can do. He said in setting up the deals they all speak English. He also said that when prints are not followed he will call and no one speaks English.

What I have found is you have to be smart and understand how to do business there if you are an American company. If managed correctly you can get a top quality product. If you go in uninformed and not really understanding how they work then you are in for trouble. Unfortunately many companies are anymore smart on China than many average Americans.

The way things are done there and how the Chinese government operates with business needs to be changed. For a good while now they have been walking all over our government like taking the Drone the other day. We need to change this and let them know we will not roll over.

They may not like us but they need us and they our economy to remain healthy as if we go down they go down economically.
IP: Logged
Previous Page | Next Page

This topic is 2 pages long:  1   2 
next newest topic | next oldest topic

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock